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Updated:	06-12-10 02:46 PM
Created:	12-03-08 04:31 PM
Downloads:	20,063
Favorites:	230
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Categories:	TradeSkill Mods, ToolTip

GatherSage2

Version: 2010-06-12

by: kellewic [More]

GatherSage2 is a re-write of the original GatherSage. Almost all of the original GatherSage functionality made its way into GatherSage2 and a lot more was added.

GatherSage2 shows what level is required to mine, pick, smelt, prospect, mill, or skin a resource (vein, deposit, ore, animal, plant, etc). The tooltip will show all skills for which the resource can be gathered or used up (i.e. an herb that can be both picked and milled).

It also shows you your current skill, how many skill ups you have gained since you logged in, and the difference between the skill you need to work with the resource and the skill you currently have.

It displays this information in the tooltip when you mouse over a resource in the world, minimap, inventory, auction house, mailbox, guild bank, and pretty much anywhere the item can be displayed. It will also show you if that resource has a chance of yielding special items (such as stone, gems, or other herbs).

A lot of testing has gone into making sure GatherSage2 does not interfere with other addons you may have loaded. Please report any problems found.

There is a readme.txt file that contains detailed information on GatherSage2

CHANGELOG

* (2010-06-12): No code changes. Added all Perl code-generation code to the package in case someone
needs to update the English locale or module Lua files.

* (2010-06-06): Fixed a bug where a creature has the same name as something else (i.e. Jade)
Also fixed a bug in the pattern matching of targets.

* (2010-06-04): Fixed bug with GameTooltip text going "wonky"... that's what happens when
you move stuff around :)

* (2010-05-30): Code cleanup and a few bug fixes.
Removed AceEvent-3.0, AceHook-3.0, AceAddon-3.0 dependencies
Added basic module code.
Changed how the locale strings work.
Cleaned up the GUI options panel.
Removed FR locale since it hasn't been updated
Updated DE locale
Added skill strings to items when the skill is different per item

* (2010-04-26): Removed support for ItemLevel module. It doesn't look to be maintained and the game now
provides the item level in the tooltip.

Removed all functionality related to quests. I have never used it and no one has ever
asked about it. It was a PITA to keep maintaining. Items gathered for quests should
still be listed on the tooltip.

Updated all module's data with what seems the most recent skill levels.

Updated code to fix reported issues. I cannot replicate the issues now so hopefully
they are good to go.

* (2009-09-08): Removed most tabs from the GUI options and condensed them to the "General" tab.

When disabling the addon in the options, all modules will be disabled.

When enabling the addon in the options, only modules for which you have a skill in
will be re-enabled by default. Manually enabling additional modules still works after
the addon is re-enabled.

When enabling parent modules (such as Mining), their child modules will also enable
(such as Smelting). If, for some reason, you don't want the child enabled, just uncheck it
after loading the parent. If for some reason you only want the child, uncheck both and re-check
the child.

Removed informational messages from displaying by default. This includes enable/disable
messages. They will appear if you set the log level to DEBUG.

Fixed an issue with deep copying game objects for no good reason. This resolved an issue
with the BasicChatMods addon and likely reduced memory footprint a tiny bit, which is
hardly ever a bad thing.

Fixed some creatures that used to be skinnable, but are no longer skinnable.

* (2009-09-04): Removed GUI configuration "Debugging" tab; placed all items under "General" tab.

Added options to only show tooltip information when a configured modifier key is used. All
modifier keys are supported (feature request).

* (2009-08-30): Updated herbalism, mining, and skinning locales and module files with new data from WoWHead.

Fixed an issue where adjusting the tooltip money frame was causing a lot of blank lines
to appear. In addition to removing the blank lines, the money frame and text was changed
to match the new in-game style.

Manually added in Titanium prospecting data.
Updated TOC for 3.2

* (2009-07-19): Changes made to Herbalism broke a few things so I had to fix them.
Minor code optimizations

* (2009-07-18): Re-organizing core code
Minor code optimizations

Fixed herbalism gathering from creatures skill levels. It seems these are the
same as skinning (based on level).

* (2009-07-11): Fixed issue with Fishing skill not being read correctly.

* (2009-06-23): Added fishing stub module for future development (was requested)

Removed data recording as the feature is fairly useless since GS2 keeps its own
database of information.

Removed locale files with no translations.

* (2009-04-18): Added debugging routines and associated GUI options. If the logging level is DEBUG or greater,
additional information will be shown in the default chat window.

There is a new dump state function that will dump all of GS2's internal state to the database. This
will allow people to PM the file to me for debugging purposes. Some people see 'tonumber' errors that
do not always show up. Hopefully this feature will help track down what is going on. This data is cleared
at login.

This version was not released.

* (2009-04-14): Fixed a bug related to numbers being compared with strings.
Fixed some other miscellaneous bugs that came up in daily use of the addon.
Updated the readme.txt file.
Added some more "unknown" items to be ignored in the locale/ignore.lua file (only available for enUS).
Bumped TOC interface number to 3.1.0

Fixed herbalism skill for Frozen Herb. It seems Wowhead has 3 entries for it and only
one of them is corect.

Updated herbalism, skinning, and mining locale and modules files from Wowhead.

Fixed Tiger Lily skill to 375 from 400 as per 3.1 patch notes.

* (2009-03-08): The "Auctioneer" bug had nothing to do with Auctioneer after further testing.
I think I finally have this fixed, although I still don't know the cause of it.

Added a logging library to aid in future debugging. Modified the Print()
method to be more friendly to the logging library.

Removed the DEBUG variable as it's not longer needed.

* (2009-03-07): Fixed a weird bug when Auctioneer was loaded. For some reason the right
FontStrings of the GameTooltip would shift left in some instances.

* (2009-01-31): Created a locale "ignore.lua" file that contains items that appear to be of
interest, but are not. This only affects the recording of unknown data.

Mining has its own locale file now that is automatically generated from
Wowhead data.

Fixed bug where known data was being recorded as unknown data.

This version was not released.

* (2009-01-28): Updated deDE locale files with name changes that Peter sent me via email. Thanks!

Herbalism has its own locale file now, others will follow this paradigm soon.
Added many more creatures and items that herbalists can gather from.

Updated skinning locale and module files - 8 new creatures, 1 new item

* (2009-01-19): Fixed the skinning locale and module data. Known NPCs should now show the correct
skinning information in the tooltip.

* (2009-01-08): Fixed a bug that caused Altoholic tooltip lines to flow off the tooltip.
Releasing this version.

* (2009-01-03): Removed all slash commands in favor of a GUI configuration screen, which
can be found in the game Interface screen.

Fixed herbalism skill levels to follow the +25, +50, +100 progression.

Added code to save items and units it does not recognize to the database. These
will need to be posted on the mod forum so they can be added to the static data
and be recognized.

Unknown items are saved in global.UNKNOWN_DATA.
Recorded items are saved in global.RECORDED_DATA.
The file these are saved to is WOW_DIR\WTF\Account\NAME\SavedVariables\GatherSage2.lua

Removed esES localization file as it was empty.

Separated out pieces of the locale files as they were getting really big
with the addition of skinning.

Changed the version number to be shorter since the mod hosting sites don't like
it to be really long and it kept getting truncated.

Added a "skill distance" in the tooltip, which is the difference
between your current level and the required level. The format is
(without the dashes):

Required (req. level) -------- curSkill (skillUps/distance)

Requires XXXXX (250) --------- 105 (+10/-145)

Filled in all known skinning targets and items. These files are automatically
generated from WoWHead so it's a bit easier to accomplish now.

Fixed a few small display bugs. Wrong colors, bad line wrapping, etc.

Added inscription data to show what inks can be made from
which pigments. This revealed a weakness in how data is
associated and a small display change was made. If a single item
(i.e. Alabaster Pigment) can be used to create more than one item
at differing skill levels, then for the main "Requires" line, the
skill level is not shown; instead "varies" is shown. In the "Chance of"
listing, the skill level will appear per item line in the right column
correctly color coded. A screenshot is provided as an example. So far,
Alabaster Pigment is the only item in the addon that follows this, but I
added the ability so any module can use it in case more are encountered as
I suspect they will be with jewelcrafting.

Inscription locale data added to the English locale. Other locales will need
someone to translate them.

Corrected code comments.
Added more code comments in case anyone else feels like messing with it :)

* (2008-12-25): Added initial skinning information
Fixed a few bugs and potential problems

Added more items to the locale tables. Hopefully I didn't break
the German locale again.

If the threat meter is showing on the tooltip, it is adjusted
down the tooltip and it's little diamond texture is hidden (along
with all other textures since there is no easy way to differentiate
what texture belongs to which line).

Added support for more than a dozen other tooltip mods. GatherSage2
should co-exist with a good portion of the tootlip mods out there.

These changes also cover the 2008-12-25-2 release which was a minor bug
fix for skinning.

* (2008-12-05-4): Fix for German clients (I hope)

* (2008-12-05): Added prospecting information and a stub for jewelcrafting.

Re-wrote portions of code to get smelting and prospecting data
sets to play nice. Tooltips will now display both skills on
things such as "Copper Ore". If more than one skill has
"chance of" items, these will be tagged by skill. This is really
only relevant for Mining Jewelcrafters and other such combinations
that have two skills that use much of the same items.

German localizations added thanks to EnSabahNur

Added support for RatingBuster and ItemLevel as they modify the
tooltip in ways that interferes with GatherSage2 displaying all
pretty :)

Added colorization of all "chance of" items.

* (2008-12-03): Re-structured code a bit more.
This version is being tagged as Alpha since it does pretty much
what the original GatherSage did minus the "You can now pick..."
functionality.

* (2008-11-30): More code optimization and structuring.
This version was not released.

* (2008-11-27): Split code up to be more manageable (hopefully :))
Verified all data sets via wowhead, wowwiki, and thotbot.
Added "quest-awareness" for quest items that can be gathered.
This version was not released.

* (2008-11-08): Initial re-write of GatherSage.
This version was not released.

Comment Options

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12-22-08, 06:36 PM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Re: missing herb

Originally posted by stanchubb
like your addon.

missing herb: Swiftthistle http://www.wowhead.com/?item=2452

keep on the good work.

Swiftthistle is in there. It's not something that can be picked by itself, but something that is gained while picking Mageroyal or Briarthorn.

When you mouse over one of those 2 items you will see "Chance of...." with Swiftthistle listed.

12-22-08, 06:44 PM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Re: 12-18 update?

Originally posted by Jaim Sandar
What is the "patch" posted at http://www.wowinterface.com/download...therSage2.html ?

I installed that, but get a lot of errors. See the comments on tha page for details of the errors.

Also, what is the difference between this AddOn and another one called "GatherSage"?
http://www.wowinterface.com/download...SageWotLK.html

Can they be combined into one mod so we can all benefit from the work of both projects?

The "patch" should have been an optional file. It is a beta version I have a few people testing where the GatherSage2 information is not placed in the GameTooltip, but in its own frame attached to the bottom of the target tooltip (GameTooltip, CowTip, EnhTooltip, etc). It's a concept I am working on to make it easier to show the data I want to show and not have to worry so much about hacking the GameTooltip along with other mods that also change it.

I'll have to check out what errors you saw as I am running that version with no problems.

GatherSage2 is basically a re-write of GatherSage and provides almost the same functionality. I added some things and took one or two things out of GatherSage, but essentially they are the same.

GatherSage broke when WoLK came out and the original author was not available so GatherSage was pretty much abandoned with no one to maintain it. I ended up re-writing it into GatherSage2 while some other people fixed GatherSage. This all happened at about the same time.

Also GatherSage2 aims to work even if other tooltip mods are installed (like Tinytip, CowTip, etc). GatherSage will likely not function if other mods move things around on the tootlip since it looks for specific text at specific tooltip lines. CowTip, for instance, moves the "Skinnable" line to the bottom of the tooltip and GatherSage looks for it on line3 of the tooltip so will not find it in this instance.

Last edited by kellewic : 12-22-08 at 06:54 PM.

12-25-08, 08:11 PM
kellewic Premium Member Forum posts: 2 File comments: 131 Uploads: 4	New Version A new version of GatherSage2 has been posted. This includes some bug fixes and skinning. For Skinning, I only included some static data in the skinning module. This means as you encounter skinnable creatures, the skinning module will remember them. As it remembers them, you will see what a creature can be skinned for on live creatures as well as corpses. Until the skinning module knows what is skinnable, you will not see what a creature can be skinned for on live mobs. This skinning data is saved in "WOW_DIRECTORY\WTF\Account\LOG IN NAME\SavedVariables\GatherSage2.lua Even if you don't have the skinning ability, you can turns this on via: /gs2 load skin (this will only load for the play session) or /gs2 load skin always (this will always load the skinning data and tracking) If anyone can message me the contents of their global.modules.load.data.SKINNING skinning data it will help a lot to fill out the static skinning information so the tooltip is filled in for live creatures as you mouse over them.

12-27-08, 10:27 PM
kellewic Premium Member Forum posts: 2 File comments: 131 Uploads: 4	Newer Version I have already been working on a follow-up version to add a LOT of skinning data. I have also added inscription data so if you mouse over pigments it will tell you what inks can be made (even though it still says "Chance of", which I will likely change to "Will produce" for those instances). Alabaster Pigment produced a slight challenge as it is used to make two inks, but at different skill levels. GatherSage2 was not written to handle it, but it is now. Basically, instead of the "Requires Inscription (120)" line, you will see, "Requires Inscription (varies)" and then the skill level will appear as the 2nd column in the "Chance of" section of the tooltip. Example: Right now, this only applies to the Alabaster Ink, but the capability is there for any future items that may need it. At this point, I am running this newer version and testing it out. If all goes well, I will probably post it by Sunday night. To upgrade, you will need to delete the old GatherSage2 folder rather than overwrite it. If anyone has any comments, suggestions, etc let me know.

12-28-08, 04:13 AM
RHuebner A Kobold Labourer Forum posts: 1 File comments: 17 Uploads: 0	Thanks for taking on this project, it's a great mod. I play many alts, almost all of which are dual gatherers, so this is really useful. I noticed that in the current version (30003-12-25-2), skinning level colors are always red or gray, because you're always initializing the required skill array with requiredLevel x 4. I'm pretty sure the standard skinning color tier deltas are the same as for herbing, e.g. requiredLevel, requiredLevel+25, requiredLevel+50, requiredLevel+100. (Edit: thinking about it more, I realized this can't be right, or you'd be getting skillups from mobs up to 20 levels lower than max, which is silly. Now I'll have to go figure out what the right deltas really are.) (Edit2: OK, tested and wasn't as far off as I thought. Actual thresholds are min, min+25, min+50, min+85.) Also, because you're storing skinnable mobs by name and level, I often have the case where I skin a 25th level Huge Bear or whatever, but the 24th and 26th level ones still aren't recognized until I specifically skin one of them as well. Is it possible to check if the database contains a Huge Bear of any level, not just the current mob's level, and if so then synthesize the initial data for this specific mob's level if it wasn't one of the ones already stored? This would really reduce the number of false negatives while you work on filling in the database. I've never seen any case where a mob's skinnability depended on its level, i.e. all Huge Bears are skinnable, no Green Spiders ever are, etc., so that won't cause a problem. I assume the main reason you're storing by level is to allow different drops to be remembered for each. If you're only doing it for speed, to avoid synthesizing the data once the db is filled in, the huge database you're going to end up with may be more trouble than the efficiency is worth. I've never noticed a delay popping up the tooltip, even on a new mob, so if you don't really have to keep separate data for each level I think you'd be better off just storing a simple list of mob names and dynamically filling in the data on the fly. And a minor feature request... in the right-side tootip text where it shows your current skill, I'd rather see currentSkill minus requiredSkill. Every time I look at that, I'm always doing the math in my head. If too low, how many more points do I need before I can harvest this? If higher than required, how far above the minimum is it, and so how likely is it to give me a skillup? The skill color is a rough guide, but I've found there's a big difference in the odds between green (min+53) and green (min+82). It's not just a flat chance by color category. Anyway, thanks again for this. You've found a good, largely unexploited addon niche to play in, where you can make a real difference and become a must-have mod for many players. Last edited by RHuebner : 12-28-08 at 06:17 AM.

12-28-08, 03:07 PM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Originally posted by RHuebner
Thanks for taking on this project, it's a great mod. I play many alts, almost all of which are dual gatherers, so this is really useful.

Thanks for using it

GatherSage was the original and I used that until WoW 3.x broke it. At first I just fixed my local version, but then wanted it to do more (like skinning, milling, etc) and decided it would be best just to re-write it rather than try to hack up the old code as it makes a lot of assumptions about the tooltip it is modifying.

Originally posted by RHuebner
I noticed that in the current version (30003-12-25-2), skinning level colors are always red or gray, because you're always initializing the required skill array with requiredLevel x 4. I'm pretty sure the standard skinning color tier deltas are the same as for herbing, e.g. requiredLevel, requiredLevel+25, requiredLevel+50, requiredLevel+100.

...

(Edit2: OK, tested and wasn't as far off as I thought. Actual thresholds are min, min+25, min+50, min+85.)

I never knew the progression for skinning and could not find any information on it so I just set them all the same. I can fix that no problem with the data you provided.

About herbalism progression though, is it really that simple? The reason I ask is because I found this table that does not follow the progression you laid out 100%:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Herb

If you look at Bruiseweed, Grave Moss, Kingsblood, Fadeleaf, Firebloom, Arthras' Tears, and Golden Sansam the progression from green to yellow is either 30 or 20.

Maybe the table is wrong, but I like to follow up on any discrepancies I find to make sure I have the most accurate data. Do you know for sure if the table is wrong?

Originally posted by RHuebner
Also, because you're storing skinnable mobs by name and level, I often have the case where I skin a 25th level Huge Bear or whatever, but the 24th and 26th level ones still aren't recognized until I specifically skin one of them as well. Is it possible to check if the database contains a Huge Bear of any level, not just the current mob's level, and if so then synthesize the initial data for this specific mob's level if it wasn't one of the ones already stored? This would really reduce the number of false negatives while you work on filling in the database.

I actually started heading down the road you described but saw too many issues with it and the code got real "hackish" fast. I decided to just list all the skinnable mobs with what they produce inside the skinning module like I did for all the other modules. This, of course, presented the next challenge of actually getting the data into the LUA code since there are hundreds of skinnable mobs and dozens of resulting items (i.e. a hell of a lot of typing

)

Originally posted by RHuebner
I've never seen any case where a mob's skinnability depended on its level, i.e. all Huge Bears are skinnable, no Green Spiders ever are, etc., so that won't cause a problem. I assume the main reason you're storing by level is to allow different drops to be remembered for each. If you're only doing it for speed, to avoid synthesizing the data once the db is filled in, the huge database you're going to end up with may be more trouble than the efficiency is worth. I've never noticed a delay popping up the tooltip, even on a new mob, so if you don't really have to keep separate data for each level I think you'd be better off just storing a simple list of mob names and dynamically filling in the data on the fly.

Correct. I only use the level now to calculate the first level required to skin the creature. With the progression data you provided, I can fix the coloring in a few minutes.

I have however, seen skinnable spiders and non-skinnable bears so I couldn't do something like "all spiders are not skinnable" and even if this were the case, the types/sub-types are typically so messed up as to be unusable.

The new version about to come out (today I hope) does pretty much what you outlined. I ended up writing a small Perl script to pull data from WoWHead and I told it to grab the pages for every item that results from skinning (that I know of anyway) and then I parse the HTML for the names of the creatures the item is skinned from. This then results in two auto-generated LUA files... one for the locale names and the actual skinning module itself. This should make it a lot easier for me to keep up with future changes and if I find another item not in my list, it is easy to add it and regenerate the files (takes less than 10 minutes).

So with the new version, the tooltip data will show on all mobs (alive or dead) that the module knows about, which is almost 1,400 of them.

This does increase memory consumption to about 1.3M with all the modules loaded (obviously skinning takes the most memory). I don't think this is too bad since no one can learn more than 2 skills and even if it took 5M of memory, that is nothing for even the crappiest computer. GatherSage2 takes almost no CPU at all even when processing the tooltip.

I am working on ways to reduce the memory footprint, but I won't do it at the cost of CPU time or if it makes the code worse (if it can get any worse

Originally posted by RHuebner
And a minor feature request... in the right-side tootip text where it shows your current skill, I'd rather see currentSkill minus requiredSkill. Every time I look at that, I'm always doing the math in my head. If too low, how many more points do I need before I can harvest this? If higher than required, how far above the minimum is it, and so how likely is it to give me a skillup? The skill color is a rough guide, but I've found there's a big difference in the odds between green (min+53) and green (min+82). It's not just a flat chance by color category.

I can easily put the difference in required vs current skill on the tooltip. It would be interesting to figure out a way to give a rough percentage based on that. Not sure if it's possible, but I can look into it. I expect I can get the "skill distance" in there for this next release as it's pretty easy.

Originally posted by RHuebner
Anyway, thanks again for this. You've found a good, largely unexploited addon niche to play in, where you can make a real difference and become a must-have mod for many players.

Thanks for the support.

12-28-08, 11:39 PM

RHuebner

A Kobold Labourer

Forum posts: 1

File comments: 17

Uploads: 0

Originally posted by kellewic
Maybe the table is wrong, but I like to follow up on any discrepancies I find to make sure I have the most accurate data. Do you know for sure if the table is wrong?

Not for sure in all cases, but... when you've got a bunch of computer-generated data that mostly fits a simple pattern except for a few small (human-reported) discrepancies which don't appear to serve any purpose, I'm pretty skeptical.

That said, proof beats theory, and I had a couple of alts with skills in the right range to check a couple of data points. And Stranglekelp definitely goes yellow at 110, not 115, and Bruiseweed goes yellow at 125, not 130. Which puts both of them back into the standard pattern, and makes me even more skeptical of the other discrepancies. Especially when I note that all of them but Golden Sansam have the same problem: yellow is 5 points too high, while the other numbers are standard. And Golden Sansam is almost the same, only there yellow is 5 points too low. This all looks like some kind of systemic data collection error; the reporter had trouble with yellow for some weird reason.

In a tangential but related note, the discussion page for that wiki article has a couple of people saying they wanted to update the chart but couldn't figure out how. Which sounds to me like a) others have noticed errors but not fixed them, and b) the chart is hard to edit, so it resists corrections and conserves errors. Blecch.

Makes me itch to systematically go through and check and clean everything up, but that'll have to wait until the next time I powerlevel a new Death Knight's herbalism up or something. In the meantime, I'll have to see if I can figure out how to make updates myself, and keep an eye on the data as I skill up my characters normally.

12-29-08, 03:09 AM
RHuebner A Kobold Labourer Forum posts: 1 File comments: 17 Uploads: 0	Well, I edited the wiki page to fix Stranglekelp and Bruiseweed, and left a discussion page note about the other probable errors. Hopefully someone will be able to verify or correct them as needed before too long. Don't know what the other comments about how hard it is to edit the table were all about, it's pretty obvious.

12-29-08, 09:09 AM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Originally posted by RHuebner
Well, I edited the wiki page to fix Stranglekelp and Bruiseweed, and left a discussion page note about the other probable errors. Hopefully someone will be able to verify or correct them as needed before too long.

Don't know what the other comments about how hard it is to edit the table were all about, it's pretty obvious.

Great, thanks. I will make sure my herbalism numbers are correct then. I made a bunch of changes to the code last night so am still running tests with my chars before posting it since without fail the day I post it, I notice an error

The new code should fix all the skinning issues you've seen and I added the level difference in there next to the skill ups.

12-29-08, 10:36 AM
RHuebner A Kobold Labourer Forum posts: 1 File comments: 17 Uploads: 0	Good deal, thank you. Just FYI, I think the mining proficiencies wiki chart is suffering from the same condition. It also appears to mostly follow the +25, +50, +100 pattern. And checking the history pages for both shows many corrections still being made to each as an ongoing issue, even for old mats. And the data for new mats is really spotty. Looks like some serious data collection and verification is needed. Which leads to this: I was all set to start keeping notes of all the node colors @ skill levels I encountered, to gradually fill in and double-check the wiki charts as I play. But if I enable the mod, I'm always seeing the color it injects, not the actual skill color from the server. I can't use the mod and verify data at the same time. Would it be possible to have the mod steal the color of the existing Requires/Skinnable/etc. tooltip line that it replaces, when you mouse over an actual node, instead of asserting its own? Edit: Hey, for that matter, it occurs to me that recording the color @ skill level of all nodes you mouse over would be an excellent thing for a mod to do for you, instead of laboriously keeping manual notes. And less error-prone, too. If you got really ambitious, the mod could update its color tables on the fly to reflect the actual server-data observed, or maybe just log an event somehow when the observed color doesn't match the expected. But even just keeping the values in a simple raw list would be really helpful. I'd hack together a little program to accumulate and condense the observations into a readable chart for correcting the wiki data. Last edited by RHuebner : 12-29-08 at 10:59 AM.

12-29-08, 06:34 PM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Originally posted by RHuebner [b]
Good deal, thank you. Just FYI, I think the mining proficiencies wiki chart is suffering from the same condition. It also appears to mostly follow the +25, +50, +100 pattern. And checking the history pages for both shows many corrections still being made to each as an ongoing issue, even for old mats. And the data for new mats is really spotty. Looks like some serious data collection and verification is needed.

Which leads to this: I was all set to start keeping notes of all the node colors @ skill levels I encountered, to gradually fill in and double-check the wiki charts as I play.

That would be very helpful. Thank you.

Originally posted by RHuebner
But if I enable the mod, I'm always seeing the color it injects, not the actual skill color from the server. I can't use the mod and verify data at the same time.

Would it be possible to have the mod steal the color of the existing Requires/Skinnable/etc. tooltip line that it replaces, when you mouse over an actual node, instead of asserting its own?

Edit: Hey, for that matter, it occurs to me that recording the color @ skill level of all nodes you mouse over would be an excellent thing for a mod to do for you, instead of laboriously keeping manual notes. And less error-prone, too. If you got really ambitious, the mod could update its color tables on the fly to reflect the actual server-data observed, or maybe just log an event somehow when the observed color doesn't match the expected. But even just keeping the values in a simple raw list would be really helpful. I'd hack together a little program to accumulate and condense the observations into a readable chart for correcting the wiki data.

I swear you are spying on me. I was just writing notes on this last night

I was planning on grabbing the color the game gave and checking against the GatherSage2 color and reporting/saving discrepencies. The reason for this is that not everything GatherSage2 knows about is colored by the game (i.e. most items in your bags... ore, herbs, etc). Pretty much only resource nodes are colored on the "Requires SKILL" line.

12-30-08, 01:12 PM
RHuebner A Kobold Labourer Forum posts: 1 File comments: 17 Uploads: 0	OK, skinning skill color tiers are weird. I hacked my copy of the mod to log the original tooltip's Skinnable/Requires line to the chat window in the original color, and put in the change to assume +25,+50,+85 skinning skill tiers, and I'm seeing lots of discrepancies. The tiers aren't the same for all mob levels. While min+85 was gray to the mob I tested it on, a mob at a different level was still green at min+95. I think the bend in the skill curves at level 20 screws things up. So just like you need a two-part formula to compute the first orange skill for a mob, you probably need different two-part formulas to compute first yellow, first green, and first gray skill points. Simple fixed offsets won't cut it. Reverse-engineering the formulas for the other 3 colors will be a pain. It'll take a lot of data points, and experimenting to fill in the data is really boring and time consuming. You probably had the right idea in the first place, just show things as skinnable or not, and don't try to predict the skill color. Maybe show skinning as red or blue (instead of gray, which implies definitely no skill up; blue could mean Who Knows?) in the live mob unit tooltip, and then clone the server's Skinnable text color in the dead mob ready-to-skin tooltip? Last edited by RHuebner : 12-30-08 at 02:17 PM.

12-30-08, 10:38 PM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Originally posted by RHuebner
OK, skinning skill color tiers are weird. I hacked my copy of the mod to log the original tooltip's Skinnable/Requires line to the chat window in the original color, and put in the change to assume +25,+50,+85 skinning skill tiers, and I'm seeing lots of discrepancies.

The tiers aren't the same for all mob levels. While min+85 was gray to the mob I tested it on, a mob at a different level was still green at min+95. I think the bend in the skill curves at level 20 screws things up. So just like you need a two-part formula to compute the first orange skill for a mob, you probably need different two-part formulas to compute first yellow, first green, and first gray skill points. Simple fixed offsets won't cut it.

Reverse-engineering the formulas for the other 3 colors will be a pain. It'll take a lot of data points, and experimenting to fill in the data is really boring and time consuming. You probably had the right idea in the first place, just show things as skinnable or not, and don't try to predict the skill color. Maybe show skinning as red or blue (instead of gray, which implies definitely no skill up; blue could mean Who Knows?) in the live mob unit tooltip, and then clone the server's Skinnable text color in the dead mob ready-to-skin tooltip?

I added code to store all world items encountered with a bunch of information, including:

["skill"] -- The skill needed for this item
["usedIn"] -- What skill(s) this item is used for
["text"] -- The raw tooltip text for this item
["line"] -- Which line on the tooltip we found the skill referenec
["hex"] -- The color that the game assigned the tooltip text
["mobLevel"] -- If this is a unit, it's level
["name"] -- The name of the item
["skillLevel"] -- The player's current skill level to work with this item

This adds no noticable overhead to processing and so is on by default. I also added a new command line switch to enable/disable it via /gs2 record [on|off].

I did change the skinnning skill colors back to RED or BLUE (different shade than skill ups).

Hopefully enough people will send me the recorded data and I can get enough data points to ensure accurate information.

One thing I did notice for skinning is that the game uses the quest difficulty colors and not the item quality colors, although the same way it is calculated for quests will likely not work for skinning.

12-31-08, 09:16 AM
RHuebner A Kobold Labourer Forum posts: 1 File comments: 17 Uploads: 0	I hadn't even noticed that quests and skills used different shades of orange/yellow/green. Weird. Notes for 2008-12-30 beta (you've probably found and fixed most of these already, but just to be thorough): Skinnable skill line still red or gray, not blue; color not yet set when tested for change to blue, so never triggers. Recording is off by default, but I think that's how it should be anyway, mostly due to the next point. How big can the recorded data section get? An entry for every possible node type or skinnable mob, at every possible skill level? Could be large, so recording should stay opt-in I think. No real point collecting the data if the user has no intention of sending it to you, or doesn't even know about the feature. Should also probably be some way to purge the data out of the database after they've sent it in (or stopped caring?), besides manually editing the XML data. When playing someone without a particular skill, so that the corresponding module isn't loaded, any found items normally covered by that module are flagged unknown and end up added to the UNKNOWN_DATA block (herbs while not herbalist, skinnable bodies while not skinner, etc.). Spawned secondary resources (Swiftthistle, Rough Stone) also flagged as unknown and stored, even when playing with the relevant skill. All that said, the mod is still stable and perfectly usable, which is good for any beta.

12-31-08, 10:28 AM

kellewic

Premium Member

Forum posts: 2

File comments: 131

Uploads: 4

Originally posted by RHuebner
I hadn't even noticed that quests and skills used different shades of orange/yellow/green. Weird.

Notes for 2008-12-30 beta (you've probably found and fixed most of these already, but just to be thorough):

Skinnable skill line still red or gray, not blue; color not yet set when tested for change to blue, so never triggers.

Recording is off by default, but I think that's how it should be anyway, mostly due to the next point.

How big can the recorded data section get? An entry for every possible node type or skinnable mob, at every possible skill level? Could be large, so recording should stay opt-in I think. No real point collecting the data if the user has no intention of sending it to you, or doesn't even know about the feature. Should also probably be some way to purge the data out of the database after they've sent it in (or stopped caring?), besides manually editing the XML data.

When playing someone without a particular skill, so that the corresponding module isn't loaded, any found items normally covered by that module are flagged unknown and end up added to the UNKNOWN_DATA block (herbs while not herbalist, skinnable bodies while not skinner, etc.).

Spawned secondary resources (Swiftthistle, Rough Stone) also flagged as unknown and stored, even when playing with the relevant skill.

All that said, the mod is still stable and perfectly usable, which is good for any beta.

And this is why I like having other people testing as well

Thanks for the notes; when I sent it to you I hadn't tested the new features yet (obviously).

I'll have to check out the "unknown" code as I haven't fully tested it with different modules loaded/unloaded. I usually have them all loaded.

I'll incorporate the changes you laid out and fix the colors.

Last edited by kellewic : 12-31-08 at 10:41 AM.

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