HOW-TO: Custom mouse cursors
 

This is not allowed, per my conversation with Blizzard. Details are posted here. As such, I've removed the information on how to do it. ~ Cairenn

WARNING!

This How-To is bordering on ToS violation territory if not aright violating the WoW ToS..

Blizzard historically had not taken kindly to MPQ hacks of any kind whether it be modifying the existing mpq or adding new "patch" mpqs. These types of changes are picked by Warden and likely will result in your account being flagged.

You may want to take down this How-To until you can verify the legality of what you are doing.

Alright, I've done so for now (EDIT: It's back up now)...now explain this. I have not once seen anything about adding files being against ToS (unless of course, the obvious cross-faction communication or game automation etc).

Also, I really dislike how you've alluded to this being a "hack". It's not. All this is doing is adding a file that says "Hey WoW, instead of using your own file how about you use this one?" (EDIT: Actually it doesn't even do that. It just exists. WoW is choosing to use it.) In fact, it's really no different than this:

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...rrorsound.html

The only thing that's different is that this file is a .MPQ, and that one is an audio file. NO BLIZZARD FILES ARE BEING ALTERED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.

So perhaps before you villainize someone you should back up your claims with some solid evidence? Innocent until proven guilty...the burden of proof lies on you, not me.

Actually...I'll take ya one further.

WoW TOS, Section #2:

None of this in any way applies to this. I am not modifying, removing, copying, or otherwise messing with the WoW client or anything contained within it in any way. I'm not even using anything they've created. Everything in this how-to is user-created with 3rd-party tools, and all it is are some .BLPs in an archive.

Also (Section #17, subsection A):

Section #2 we just covered. Section #9 deals with how you conduct yourself in-game with others (The Code of Conduct), and Section #1 is the usual "you may only use for noncommercial purposes" clause. Also, I need to point out that this isn't a program. It's not like an addon..it's just raster graphics.

I've been known to be wrong on occasion, and in the event I am here I will admit it. It's not looking like I am, though.

This technique of overriding (not just adding) files is how model edits work. Model edits are very much hacks, and are often used to modify in-game geometry or other off-limits data. No one is accusing the cursor graphics of being hacks, but I wouldn't trust Blizzard's anti-cheat program to be as smart as you or I. It may simply see the extra MPQ and assume the worst. That's where all this caution comes from.

Granted, real model edits are locked down much tighter by Blizzard and require a lot more effort to get working. The fact that this cursor patch file works without any extra effort almost convinces me that it's safe. It's still a big risk to assume how Blizzard's anti-cheat works though.

The only 100% safe thing to do is put a suggestion in on Blizzard's forums. Ask for a GetCursor API to return the current cursor graphic, and mods will be able to replace cursors easily.

Folks who alter their character's models can argue the same thing, yet Blizzard has cracked down on them. Players should not be messing with anything in the Data folder as at best, it's a ToS violation grey area. I have been around the WoW community almost from the very start and I have seen Blizzard go after people who mess with the game's files (even just "adding to them"). The only legitimate files that we the players can mess with are those in the Interface, WTF, and Fonts folders. However the Data folder is a ToS minefield.

I am sorry if you feel that I reacted too strongly however I have seen these things come and go usually with Blizzard snapping at their heels. Blizzard is very protective of all aspects of their games. In the case of WoW, that goes for the mpq files. I do not want to see people getting one shotted by the Banhammer because they used an innocent change to something like their mouse cursor.

We do not know what Warden (the anti-cheat program) picks up on, however from what I have seen, it generates a hash based on what it finds and then compares it to what it expects to find. Additional mpq files will alter that hash (thus the comparison is not what Warden expects to find) and thus your account will be flagged. Whether or not and how Blizzard decides to act on the flagged account is up to them.

As the previous poster stated, the safest way is to get in contact with Blizzard and ask for a legitimate way of changing the cursor such as the OP's idea of a GetCursor API for mods to hook into.

If you are ever in doubt on whether or not something is kosher to post here on WoWI (such as your guide), email the WoWI staff. They don't bite (that I know of).

Ok, this argument I can understand. Sort of. You kinda argue against yourself here:
Exactly. It's Blizzard's own work that's causing their own cursors to be overridden by ones I put in an additional file. By comparison, addons do this intentionally all the time with no ill will.

True, that is the only way to be 100% safe. It's also the way to be 100% ignored, just like everyone else who posts in there. Call me dangerous, but I can live with being 99% safe.

And Zyonin...did you even read the initial post? Or for that matter, ANYTHING I've posted in this thread? You're still spouting the same crap with nothing to back it up. HOW is this a "ToS 'grey area'"? WHO said so? WHERE in the legal documents does it state as much? WHEN has something like this (where NO BLIZZARD STUFF IS BEING TOUCHED) ever led to any action whatsoever?

To be honest, it looks like you took one glance a the top of the first post, saw "MPQ Editor", and immediately flew into action.

Why modeledit's are illegal BTW, is not because of the cosmetic changes, but you can also edit the terrain. Which means(and this has happened) that you can create a path to GM Island. I don't think that Warden will actually scan your injected .MPQ file and see wether it's a terrain edit, model edit or cursor edit, I think he will just kick your butt.

Yes, I did read the intial post. At first I was OK with it until you get to the point of using a "Patch MPQ". Then that is when the red flag went up. As mentioned by Nightcracker and myself, Warden will see the new mpq. The hash that is generated when Warden does it's scan is not correct. Warden sees that incorrect scan and your account is flagged. Warden doesn't care that your mpq doesn't modify what you term as "Blizzard Stuff". It just sees a file that should not be there.

New MPQ = Warden flag = possible unwanted attention from Blizzard.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. I should be this:

New MPQ = Warden flag = sadly enough no attention from blizzard and instead an autoban

I'm leaving out parts of the story on purpose, since this is an official Blizzard Fan Site, and the mods would be obligated to delete any post detailing how model edits work. Patch MPQs that modify geometry or other client data require hacks be run alongside WoW to fool the game into using them. The MPQ package is what might confuse Warden, Blizzard's cheat detector. The things Warden looks for change frequently and without warning too, so I would still be wary of overriding MPQs.

If you don't think you'd be heard in the Suggestions forum, you might want to try the UI Developer's Suggestions and Questions thread on the UI & Macro forum. I like to imagine that Slouken still reads it.

Uhh...yeah. I don't even think GM Island exists anymore. Come to think of it, I haven't seen a GM character in-game since before BC came out (last time I can remember was somewhere around AQ).

Anyway, if this were true then Warden would ban me if I made a blank .MPQ with nothing in it and tossed it into my data directory. Hell, it wouldn't even have to be a "real" .MPQ...I could just write "SKEET" 450,000 times in a .txt file and rename it to "SKEET.MPQ" and get banned.

I don't think so. :rolleyes:

GM Island is still around. You usually don't see GMs as many of them operate in invisible mode as they have a lot to do, there are not that many GMs compared to players and the GMs don't need distractions from players. GMs do operate remotely (usually via the ticket system) as they have the commands in their GM clients to deal with many situations remotely. However they do appear from time to time when their physical presence is needed.

And yes, if you made a blank MPQ with nothing it, it will be picked up by Warden and the account flagged. If you want to play tag with Warden, go ahead, it's your account.

I believe you misunderstood me. I wasn't confused. :p

It's this:
THAT's the key difference here. Now whether Warden is a bumbling SKEET-banning idiot...I don't know. I would tend to think not, though...mainly because this would leave Blizzard with a rather large legal hole should they be asked to provide proof that a user was breaking the ToS.

**EDIT: Going to bed. I'd like to see some actual evidence to one side or the other by the time I get back to you. So far all I've got is conjecture and prediction. It's been over 5 years...surely there's some precedent here?

**EDIT #2: Just had to get this out right quick:

How do you know what Warden does/flags/picks up? Again...you're using weasel terminology to make this look like it's "clearly" an illegal hack (and at the same time making me out to be an idiot).

Warden adding a flag doesnt mean your automatically banned. It means the system is alerted. What happens from there is entirely up to blizzard.

In the end its a risk. You can choose to take it based on what you feel is correct and that is your choice. Though i will agree that until you have a definitive answer from blizzard about this, it is best to leave out the tutorial on how it is done.

I've used a custom patch cursor for 2 years, I asked a GM and he said it was alright, but Blizzard could do what they want so use at your own risk. The fact is Blizzard has not come out and said it's bad so I see no reason to worry about it. It's a custom cursor for God's sakes people! Get a grip.


Blizzard will *NEVER* state whether it's okay or not because they don't like to be held to policy.
The fact that they have not said it's bad though should be clear enough that it's not.

Again, I've been using a patched cursor for over 2 years and never been hassled. And I've spoken to a GM about it
and TOLD him I was using it, and never been hassled.

GMs don't have a clue. There used to be another way to replace certain game art by putting files in the Interface folder that was removed.

I knew about MPQs and was uncertain of their legality. I talked to a GM who told me that while it might not be a violation of the ToU, Blizz can still cancel my account for it if they want and suggested I better remove the MPQ instead of risking it.

Conclusion:

1) Two GMs contradicting each other, usually means they have no clue/internal policy for these kind of things

2) One of the GMs is correct, the other one is wrong. I didn't see your GM conversation but I can say that the GM i talked to at least seemed to have a clue about what I was talking about.

Still, it's a cursor, and I'm not sweating it. I love my custom cursor.
Here's a screenshot of the cursor I put together.

Very nice, Kupo! As I told ya in my email, I dig it. :)

Oh, and thought I'd interject a little something in here: a blue post.

ZOMG WTF BBQ LOL, someone actually PROVIDING SOEM DATAZ???!?! :confused: :eek:

Yes...because instead of blind fear-mongering like the rest of you, I decided to read.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...eNo=1&sid=1#17

If you're lazy (which you are, obviously):

(Thank you Kamdis for bringing this to public attention)

Besides, did any of you stop to think for just one second that maybe there's a reason this works? Blizzard is fully capable of blocking this type of action (as they've done on numerous occasions with actual "model edits"). We're able to change all kinds of other stuff in the user interface by simply adding files (anyone seen AI-Art?) and nobody has ever asked questions about it. We even change in-game sounds by inserting our own audio files into the Data directory tree with no worries. In fact, I don't see how this doesn't apply to the existing addon common practice of "if Blizzard allows it to happen and it's not altering the game client, it's perfectly legal". I'd stake my account on it...with two geared 80s and a third 80 on its' way, and my sentimental vanilla WoW T2-geared PvP-title-holding Druid.

But no...I come along with a simple, safe, and effective way to change mouse cursors that is in no way violating the ToS (try reading the damn thing) and get jumped on.

I guess that's the privilege the "UI community elite" get around here. I haven't written any life-changing 100k+ download addons and aren't buddy-buddy with the site administration here so it's perfectly acceptable for all sorts of blind misinformed accusations to be tossed my way with no repercussions whatsoever. I mean, you're the ones bringing in the site traffic and the advertisement dollars so they have to cater to your whim.

Don't worry...you won't have to put up with my "annoyances" much longer.

That's enough! Don't make me put you in separate corners! :mad:

While you may feel that Zyonin's post was meant to turn you into a bad guy, that is not the case. Zyonin's post was meant to avoid any unwanted repercussions as a result of your publicly available tutorial.

And, no, it hasn't been said that editing the cursors in this way is "legal". GM's aren't allowed/don't know 100% what is legal or not. Pavonum, the blue you quoted, is a GM. You can add his response to those of the other two GMs listed in this thread. All you have is two for and one against. And you will find many, many more varying GM responses on the subject. None of which are definitive or make something "legal".

Even Pavonum's response could be interpreted as referring to regular Interface overrides (in the Interface folder), since he specifically said "user interface". Kaone (another GM) also replied to that thread, quoting the relevant section of the Terms of Use (2.B.), saying:
But, again, he's just a GM and doesn't have a definitive say about interpretation of the TOU/TOS.

The old way for cursors to be overridden was via a CURSORS folder in the Interface folder (the normal way of overriding interface textures). This ability was **removed** by Blizzard a few patches ago. The change to .mpq files is nothing new, but people stayed away from it because of a) the risk to your account for doing so, and b) the ability to change cursors via an "accepted" manner was available.

The question is (and has been since that patch) "Why did Blizzard take away that way to change our cursors?"

Also, Blizzard is free to apply their TOS/TOU as they see fit, and change it as they see fit. Just because Kupotek has been changing his for 2 years with no repercussions, doesn't mean that Blizz won't decide to take action later.


TL;DR: no one knows if your tutorial is "legal" or not except the people at Blizzard that call the shots and make the rules. And whether they choose to let us know is up to them. If they say that changing cursors in the .mpqs is "legal", then that opens the flood gates for other edits/questions. The answer to these questions is **always** to err on the side of caution and "don't do it."


One last thing.
This is the second time that you have made an accusation like this. I suggest you reanalyze your opinion.

Amenity: Seerah responded to all of this already, so I'll just let the majority of her post stand. However, I am going to add a bit to her response to the above quoted bit:

What on earth are you talking about? There is one group we 'cater' to, and one group only: Blizzard. Why you seem to feel otherwise is completely beyond me. If we had any sort of a problem with you, you'd know about it, and it would have happened long before you had 100+ posts. Obviously we don't.

The responses you have received in this thread have been opinions, just like your own opinion. There have been no policy statements by either Blizzard or WoWI. The majority of what I read was, in fact, people trying to look out for you. Everyone could have just left it alone. But people have been warning you that you might be putting your account at risk. That is showing concern, not 'jumping on you'. You really need to remove the chip on your shoulder (I'm not sure what put it there in the first place) and realize that people are actually showing care for you. I don't necessarily agree with the way some of them have expressed it, but Seerah also covered that by telling people to calm down (the only 'policy' statement made in here, which was just a reiteration of our site rules, which is that people are to be decent to one another).

As for your very last line - I know how it reads to me and I have two things to say to it: what annoyances? and I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way, I'd rather not lose any member of our community (and at 100+ posts, you're a member of our community).

Interesting how you conveniently leave out the rest of his post which specifically mentions "reverse engineering, modifying World of Warcraft, adding components to World of Warcraft" and "You agree that you will not (i) modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of a World of Warcraft installation".

But, I'm done trying to convince people. You've clearly got your mind(s) made up. It's your choice in the end.

As far as this goes:
An opinion is based on observation. I still haven't heard back from Cairenn regarding the previous "incident", nor received an apology from Dolby for his fanatical backing of the other party involved (not to mention his condescension of my character) in that incident despite the fact he was clearly wrong (as was later admitted by that other party, which I thanked him for). In fact, everything I've asked the administration since has been ignored (everything from "hey, what are the details of your art project so I can toss together some ideas" to "I'd like to make a monetary donation to the site as a means of support but don't want a subscription, how do I do that?").

But whatever. I really couldn't care less about your thinly veiled e-threat. I'm taking my work elsewhere. Do what you will.

Amenity - I'm sorry, life has been ... less than stellar ... for me lately. I don't really care to get into any of it in a public forum like this, but if you'd care to PM me we can talk, okay?

Um, how did this turn into an attack on ALL the users/authors here? I assure you, no one caters to my whim here. Pretty sure that applies to 99% of the rest of the community as well. And yes, it is acceptable to "toss all sorts of blind misinformed accustations" because the fact of the matter is that people are trying to clear up the question of legality. Trying to provide info to the questions or giving their viewpoints is not a violation of any rules here, thus not subject to repercussions. Your post, however, is subject to repercussions as it is against the rules for being "flaming/insulting/rude", in which I have already taken the liberty to report in support of the very cause you are trying to present (and clearly failing at).
Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too buddy, but looks like you don't care anyways as you have already given the image of being a stuck up 13 yr. old who thinks he's king **** and knows everything. Kinda reminds me of my 9 yr. old.....

Your guide is questionable and pardon if people want to make sure they're not gonna get banhammered for doing it. You think the responses are annoying now? Just wait til the first person gets banned from your guide. This doesn't even touch the hell you'll be in store for if/when this happens.

EDIT: With your present choice in attitude, which is not desirable here, nor tolerated, your departure would probably be for the best.

Chaos ....

Ok, ok! I edited the last one for "niceness". I was writing my response while you guys were doing yours. ;)

Thank you.

It seems like fighting has been popular these days. :( I don't want you to go, Amenity! :(

Chaos...you just proved my point. Thank you. And by the way, I wasn't attacking "everyone"...just the elitist top-run users like yourself.

I'd probably take your viewpoint of me being "immature" a bit more seriously if you weren't tossing out childish insults. :rolleyes:

In regards to the actual question in this thread: I had no problem with people questioning the legality of this provided they back their arguments up. Instead, they just repeated the same arguments ad nauseum all the while disregarding anything I posted. Nobody here is trying to "clear up the question of legality" but myself. You're all so convinced that you're correct that you won't listen to things like logic or reason or precedent.

But no, I'm the one who is acting as if I know everything? When I'm the only one using actual sources of information to construct my argument based on fact? I believe you've gotten this backwards, sir. You're like the people who still believe the 1969 moon landing was a hoax/government conspiracy despite being shown hard physical evidence that it wasn't. I've stated in this thread that if a convincing argument that wasn't hearsay could be presented that I would be willing to admit that I am wrong. Wish someone one the other side of this debate could say the same...but that would mean admitting you can be fallible...and that's just unacceptable to you, isn't it?

Ok, ok...this is seriously it. Go ahead and get your little last word in. I'll come back to read it...then shrug it off lightly as the mad ramblings of someone who has no idea what the hell they're talking about.

*GTFO-ing*

-Ame

Bye.

(10-char)

The problem is that nobody can prove the legal-ness or illegal-ness of the MPQ cursor modifications.

Blizzard has not given a straight answer to this question. Any response that hints at these modifications being legal is open to interpretation because the original quote was purposely ambiguous.

What people have provided is a warning. Adding MPQs does change how Warden views the game. When Warden does not see the normal install in the Data directory it flags your account. We know this happens. Whether or not Blizzard will ban you for adding cursor textures is something nobody knows for sure. All we do know is that it could happen.

Using the MPQ method of changing your cursor texture could be viewed as fine. Maybe Warden flags are reviewed on an individual basis and Blizzard can see what's been modified and choose whether or not to take action.

Most of the warnings about using the guide have been more along the lines of "Hey that bridge could have ice on it, be careful if you cross it", rather than "This is as illegal as murder".


Now, I have a feeling that you will blast this reply for not providing links to any blue posts. The problem is that they simply don't exist. Blizzard won't share much about how Warden functions, so we make educated guesses and try to reverse engineer some processes. It seems like people have been advising caution and you've taken it as a personal attack. Maybe things could have been phrased better. But maybe we can all just calm down and not do anything rash?

Sorry if you leave, I've enjoyed many of your posts btw.

Stop it. Behave, all of you, this thread is way out of control and I'm not at all happy about it.

I'm talking to Blizz, to see if we can get an answer either way. I'll let you know.

Amenity you are in the elitist top-run users group. Any one with more than a few good posts is and with you hosting some great addons even solidifies that. You are just as much a part of this community as any one else. Yes some people arent nice but thats life, the better you can handle those people and ignore them the better life you'll have. :)

I think most are just saying there is a possible risk as the question has not been 100% answered. Those people care about those in the UI community and want to share their concern. Now we really can't take anything a GM says seriously as many times in the past some have stated AddOn's were illegal to use. Not to mention they are told they can not comment on or interpret legal issues; that is an issue for a Dev/Producer/Legal dept. Luckily we have a line of communication with those at blizzard that can answer it and Cairenn is seeing if they can clear things up (legally they might not be able to give us an answer) but Cairenn is working on trying.

Amenity if you have any problems with what I said in the past you can PM me. I don't really think its appropriate to bring it up in this thread. If you feel more comfortable talking about it publicly you can still do so in the public thread your talking about as it hasn't been deleted.

Factual information:
I used to have a custom cursor back in 2008. Back then, it was a simple matter to do. All you had to do was create the blp as described here with the filename point.blp. Then, you created a folder named Cursor within the Interface folder. Finally, you placed point.blp in that folder.... and it just worked.

That method doesn't work now.

Opinion:
Considering it is quite possible that Blizzard intentionally disabled it, I'm not going to push my luck :)

wow, this is a really violent game :).

it would seem to me, however, that anything that tweaks the "official"/released manifest of MPQs (as components distributed by Blizzard, and therefore broadly governed by the EULA) would be a high-risk sort of thing to do.

there might never be a consequence. or you could (unfortunately) get squashed like a bug. and i agree, i would doubt Blizzard ever devote the resources required to reverse-engineer what you are doing, how/why/etc, much less take any of that into account.

in any event, this begs a different question: how do addons like _Cursor work (and i have seen others that augment the cursor in various ways, adding a global cooldown progress bar and other such things)? presumably these addons do things in a way that is legitimate for addons. wouldn't that be a safer (or at least less controversial) way to go?

Not much point in arguing more since Cairenn is attempting to get a response, but I'm bored enough to throw in my 2c. The history of model-editing is pretty simple:

Place renamed m2 files in your data folder in the appropriate file path.

Blizzard disliked this, so they stop reading raw overrides for a select group of files. They now only read repackaged MPQ files.

Blizzard still dislikes this, so they add a 'security certificate' (my own terminology, I don't recall the official term) to a select group of MPQ files. You now need to run a 3rd party executable that modifies this certificate in order for wow to load certain modified MPQ files. Any modified protected MPQ files will crash the game if the certificate isn't valid (or modified by another, explicitly illegal, application).


Cursors are on the second stage of this process. We can argue that Blizzard is escalating security on these particular files to prevent it. We can also argue that two steps doesn't make a pattern, and until Blizzard makes this explicitly illegal it's ok.

Which one is it? Who knows. Pick a side, have fun, be civil, and enjoy the unprecedented UI modification wow has either way.

The fact is this:

Blizzard broke custom cursors.
Blizzard will not say whether they broke them on purpose or not
This leads me to believe it was on accident (working as intended).
Therefore the fix that works is perfectly fine until stated otherwise,
to live any other way is to make assumptions on reality, and that's no way to live.

Anyhow, I bet we are spending more time worrying about a freakin' cursor than Blizzard is.

But why they don't just stop the confusion when they could so easily is pretty annoying.

I think they are working on it Kupotek.

Thanks ckramme! I did not see that in all the chaos (*smile*)
Cairenn rocks.

I really should be in bed right now but I care too damn much not to answer.

Not sure if anyone's seen this but have a look at this thread folks :

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...02301679&sid=1
IE They are specifically allowing sound modifications that work by recreating the file path in the Data folder.

That's Bornakk one of the CM so he liaisons with the developers as referenced in :

http://www.wowwiki.com/CM

EDIT : Just to clarify as Amenity seems to have made a post glorifying that she was right :

Amenity all this means is SOUND modifications via placing sound files in the Data folder are okay by Blizzard.

It does not mean that Cursors placed in the Data folder to over ride the default cursor is okay by Blizzard and it certainly does not mean that directly editing the MPQ files is okay because of this reference.

The post was specifically made as there were a number of posts debating wheter Sound mods that go in the Data folder were okay and that post was in relation to them.

Amenity I like you as a person and loves your posts you make on any forums but please don't use this post or my name to imply something that simply is not true.

This is not me being "cliquey" or "sticking up for my mates". This is me correcting what you've attributed to me on your webpage.

Why you gotta be such a hater :(

I've talked to Blizzard about this and they have said that MPQs are part of their proprietary software and as such are not to be altered or "faked" in any way (including creating your own "new" ones). They fall under the following sections of the EULA and ToU:

From the EULA:
From the ToU: