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Unread 04-25-07, 04:59 PM   #1
nihlistic
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rogues too overpowered so lets buff em

i get hit stunned hit ..i blink. if i try to engage him, he blinds or stuns me before i get a meaninful shot off. and by throwing things at me he postpones my 2.5 second cast to about 3 to 4 sec cast. i gotta stand still for stupid long cast times. then its 15 seconds without a blink which equals certain death. if i frost nova him he gets out of it immediately. slowing effects are brushed off by him which makes the frost tree absolutely USELESS. if i manage to get him down in hitpoints he vanishes.
aoe only works if im close to him. i cant find him, i am not a warlock and have no stealth detection.
he can silence me (a caster) for 3 seconds and interupt my spell completely by throwing things at me in the mean time i might as well take my gloves off and bareknuckle fight him.

and in the 5 seconds that he is immune to everything he can kill me.....yes 5 seconds.

so bliz wants to extent his insignia of the horde as a tool to allow him a way out of sheep and slowing effects in the next patch. THATS RIGHT

frost mages hit with a frostbolt for 1200 points off a 2.5 second cast. every fourth or fifth cast is a generous crit for 2900.

if a mage hits enemy while the enemy is in ice a mages crit chance increases by up to 50 percent at which point the ice is broke by the damage 90 percent of the time (very unreliable CC tool).
but the trick is to get far enough away from the target, turn around, and cast a 2.5 sec cast while being interrupted ...lol ...90 percent of the time you WILL NOT get a cast off so kiss your would have been 50 percent crit increase goodbye.

A mage, if able to get away, may click on his invisible button. yes we must wait 5 seconds until we vanish. if we are hit by anything, even a dot or a bleed, we just wasted a 5 minute cooldown. and cant go invis

blink only works half the time, as intended? if a mage blinks in certain wide open places as a lifesaving means to get out of range; half the time the mage will go backward 2 feet.
so blink cant even be counted on.

address these issues,

V/R,

Nih
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Unread 04-25-07, 05:19 PM   #2
Seerah
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Did you post this on the mage forum or something? Cause I'm not too sure how you'll get someone here to fix something about class balance.

I hate rogues. But I also don't pvp very often and consider myself a noob. The key to rogues though is staying on your toes, trying to always be one step ahead of him, and modifying your play style to accommodate what they bring to the table. Mana/Ice shields, instant cast spells ( <3 PoM), and rank 1 AE and Blizzard are your friends. Try to get a DOT up on the rogue (through fireball or something) to prevent them from going stealthed. When you frost nova, strafe to the left or right, that way you only have to do a quarter turn (if that) to face them to cast again. Using the mouse is faster to turn than the keyboard, as well. When using your instant cast spells, remember that the rogue will keep wanted to get behind you - so you have to dance like a rogue and keep trying to stay in front of them.

Good luck.
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Unread 04-25-07, 05:34 PM   #3
robthedude
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Yup, Rogues can walk all over every other class, but at least... erm... nope, dunno where I'm going with this...

Here's some advice - level a rogue! never get your arse whooped again!
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Unread 04-26-07, 08:31 AM   #4
Xanithon
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Just InstaCast your way away from the blighter.

Lvl 1 AE then sheep (maybe PoM if he's sprinting) so you have time to throw that Fireball or Pyroblast. Then InstaCast.

Meh, follow Seerah's adivce.
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Unread 04-26-07, 08:54 AM   #5
Corrodias
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As a feral druid, i have limited options myself for dealing with a rogue. The most effective strategy seems to be trying to keep his attention while i'm in bear form so he "wastes" his dps and anti-caster abilities or harass him in cat form if he's after someone else. And use bleed effects.

I can't even begin to imagine how a mage is supposed to do anything about them. As far as i'm aware, most people -- except perhaps a few rogues -- widely regard rogue as "the OP PvP class". Maybe Blizzard thinks all pvp mages are fire mages with PoM. That may be your only reasonable option if you're PvPing against rogues?
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Unread 04-26-07, 10:31 AM   #6
Wowgamer233
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As a priest...

...I learned the hard way having to deal with rogues by being ganked over and over and over in STV. Today I can say I have a fighting chance with taking on most rogues. I am currently leveling a (38atm) rogue to understand how to kick their asses as a priest but also to enjoy the character for it's own class. What I do NOT and will NOT ever do on my rogue is do random, ganky killing of squishies, i.e. priests and mages. Just my personal choice. Everyone else though...

In dealing with a rogue it's kinda obvious that they will hurt like hell when they ambush crit you. My first instinct is to fear as a priest (and blink as a mage). The VERY first thing you need to do with a rogue is dot their ass. Stop them stealthing as that is when they are most dangerous. Obviously fear (and blink) have a cooldown so you need to know your class to how to survive the daggers coming at you. Mages nova the rogue to the ground and just get out of there. You can get some distance with blink which should have cooled down as the nova holds them. Heck, just get out of there. Move on. As a shadow priest I can pretty easily dot and flay a rogue to death. Fear should be up pretty quick so dot and heal. A good shadow priest can own pretty much own rogues unless they really rock at pvp and are out to be squishy killers. A holy priest can keep himself/herself alive through the onslaught and dot and fear accordingly.

So, rogues can be handled by making sure they are dotted, frozen down, feared, flayed, etc. Yes these things have cool-downs but if you let a rogue start shredding you with his weapons or get behind you then it's not looking good for you.

I've had great satisfaction of taking down ?? rogues with a shammy friend just because we kept him dotted, feared and frost-shocked. Slow them, dot them, fear them and call for backup.... People like to know when a rogue is being naughty so you should usually get help if you are polite and informative in asking for help in local defense.
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Unread 04-26-07, 11:44 PM   #7
nihlistic
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i appreciate the comments and reaction guys

what has occured recently with the rogue is that they get (without spending points) automatically the cloak of shadows which wipes off all dots, slowing, stuns, etc. albeit with a 60 second cooldown. giving them not a slight edge, but a tremendous advantage. oh and by the way for 5 seconds they are immune to ALL just like palladins. then on top of that, they can use a talent selection to reset the cooldown on cloak of shadows, giving them a back to back cloak of shadows, if they dont want to wait a mere 60 seconds.

in addition, bliz will also change their insignia of the horde to work on sheep, slowing effects, and etc. this specifically counters the mages best crowd control spells and in effect can be used to further bridge the 60 sec gap between the omni-potent cloak of shadows. its truly, not an equalizer, but a rogue domination tool.

nih

for all those months of getting waxed... its payback time, lol
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Unread 04-29-07, 07:56 PM   #8
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Death Coil, Fear, Immolate, DOTS, Fear, Shadow Bolt, Shadow Bolt.

gotta love locks... especially afflic. ones
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Unread 04-30-07, 03:07 AM   #9
zathriel
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my rogue is only 19 now and i have had only a few duels , all started by the other player and mostly they have been higher level players.
i've been beaten by three very high level mages , no surprise there and have beaten a warrior two levels higher with half my hp points intact but the three times i have fought paladins they have detected me and beaten me with ease
do paladins have some form of stealth detection too?
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Unread 04-30-07, 03:31 AM   #10
Debz
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humans do as a racial.

Probably used consecration though, any good pally around a stealthed druid/rogue will. Soon as you take dmg you unstealth.
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Unread 04-30-07, 05:31 AM   #11
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CoS works for most things except Bleed effects. So if you have bleed effects (Hemo, Rupture (Finsher) Garrote (Opener), Rend, Rake, Rip (Finsher), Pounce (Opener), Lacerate, then use em as it will knock the rogue out of Stealth makeing Vanish useless.

Mages should kite them, using instant casts, Frost Nova, Blink and if you have time Frost bolts.

Warlocks should Fear, DoT, DoT, Deathcoil, sic your Felpuppy on them.

Druids get the bleed effects and Farie Fire on them, Open with Prowl, finish with Maim if you are in kitty and you have the points to stun em or Rip for another Bleed effect, then shift to Bear to weather the storm, Bash to stun and Lacerate/Mangle.

Paladins use HoJ and Consecrate to control the fight, Bubble to heal and just wear them down.

Hunters use pets, traps and instant shots, then kite them.

Warriors need to Rend, Hamstring, and use Intimidating Shout (if the CD is up) and Demoralizing shout then kill them.

Priest, Shadow Pain, Psychic Scream and Mind Flay til the Rogue keels over

Always force Rogues to use their CDs (Sprint, CoS, Vanish, other CDs) at bad times for them, once the CDs are blown they are wide open for a kill. Have Racials and trinkets handy to try and break stuns if you get stunned. And if you hear the Stealth sound before you can launch an attack run somewhere very fast!!!! The trick is get the jump on the Rogue. A Rogue's strong point is when they attack you from Stealth. A good Rogue that is Stealthed will get that #@*$ing stunlock on you and thus the greeting from the Spirit Healer as you run again. However if you catch the Rogue before they have Stealthed then you can control the fight and the odds are in your favor.

This is coming from one who has played as a Rogue and vs Rogues. I have a level 70 Druid that eats Rogues, and as a Rogue I have been on the recieving of the attack I have mentioned.
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Unread 08-21-07, 03:48 AM   #12
Rooster
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tbh, respecc frost and pwn us. Don't whine about CloS Or our Deadly throw, You got your imba pet that does 1k NONE crits and can Frostnova. your icelance can crit for 2.4k (?)... so, GTFO or stop whining. rogues= Pure cloth killers, When your fire, you're just a little toy we like to play with.
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Unread 08-21-07, 07:30 AM   #13
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Unread 08-31-07, 05:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dreadlorde
....
When words dont get it done a handy little animation says it all. I completely agree lol.
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Unread 08-31-07, 08:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by MidgetMage55
When words dont get it done a handy little animation says it all. I completely agree lol.
Took long enough for someone to notice that..lol.
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Unread 08-04-07, 09:09 AM   #16
ChaosInc
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@ nihlistic

Frost mages can kill rogues with ease. The key is patience. Sure, they can get out of all your freezes and such, but realize that it's all cooldown abilities. The key is to get them to blow them all in order to fight you. After that, they're a sitting duck.

Even as frost, if you're concerned about them vanishing, toss a 1st level Fireball to give em a DoT. Problem solved.

As I posted before, stop whining that you have to use some skill to kill rogues now. You're just pissed off cause they aren't "free honor" anymore. I repeat, L2PvP.

Note: I have both a mage and a rogue, so it's not like I'm one sided here.
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Unread 08-09-07, 05:15 AM   #17
Phannie
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I only leveled my rogue to 48...but I enjoyed her a great deal. The only two classes that even had a chance against her were frost mage and a lock with the succubus. Everything else went down before they even knew I was there.

But yea, a frost mage can kick some serious rogue butt if you play it correctly. I once watched a lvl 40 frost mage school a lvl 60 rogue with little more than nova, frostbolt, sheep and blink. It took him forever to do it, but he outlasted her.
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Unread 08-09-07, 05:53 AM   #18
sicness
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I have a 68 rogue and can tell you that it's not as easy as it seems. Sure one on one rogues have their advantages, but against certain classes, as certain specs, there's no way one can beat a competent player. As a mage if you're having problems, I'd question what spec you are, if you're not frost there's no reason to complain about rogues. If you're frost then look at some of the strategies other people use. In fact, there's great how-to videos by a mage called "I suck at Dueling" and "I suck at PvP".

The real reason rogues are getting buffed is because of their arena play. In 5v5 they're practically worthless, as a warrior can do the same things and after 30 seconds into a match has more mobility than a rogue, having intercept. This is why rogues are getting a buff to their mobility.

Since the more recent patch that made all PvP trinkets remove any effect that disables control of your character rogues have had a difficult time, as now anyone can use it to break the notorious Blind + Bandage routine that rogues usually have to use against most classes. So instead of being so close minded try looking at it from another perspective.

Edit:
Also, if you're going to complain about a class you should read up more on them. That's actually how most people learn how to play against them. Cloak of shadows is not effected by Preperation, and is a 90% resist chance against all spells and does not remove all DoTs, but simply all magic effects. Warrior DoTs are not effected by it. Deadly throw, their ranged interrrupt is only usable if the rogue has combo points on you and only causes and interrupt if the rogue has the arena gloves. If you really want to see an unfair matchup watch a rogue against a decent warrior, the warrior simply has to auto attack and hamstring to win.

Last edited by sicness : 08-09-07 at 06:08 AM.
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Unread 08-19-07, 08:52 AM   #19
zathriel
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damn, just cant leave my rogue alone
halfway to 34 now , mostly subtlety at present but wondering what most think is the best levelling tree?
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Unread 08-19-07, 09:56 AM   #20
SaberHawke
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Originally Posted by zathriel
damn, just cant leave my rogue alone
halfway to 34 now , mostly subtlety at present but wondering what most think is the best levelling tree?
Read this http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dt4f32p_4dcj7jt, for some good leveling advice.

I have been playing my rogue since early alpha and haven't found another class I enjoy as much.

Last edited by SaberHawke : 08-19-07 at 09:59 AM.
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