WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users - Page 73

***Dolby*** · 06-04-09, 01:33 PM

/hugs Cairenn. And that folks is why I am a C.F.M. Cairenn Fanclub Member.

Edit:
Opps new page... for those that just look at the last page of a thread...
http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...postcount=1422

Yhor · 06-04-09, 05:00 PM

I knew it was coming, no one could hold their breath this long without popping a vessel or just popping. You can't know how much admiration and love this community has for you, Cair, especially after that wall of fed-up-ness (even if the start up is a little fuzzy on old folks memories). In my time here (2 accounts, one of them lost, since 2005), you have been a beacon of light for improving my gaming experience through what you helped others to offer. Since that start, I've come to really enjoy the community here, the ideals and principles here, and Seerah (oops, did I say that out loud?). Thanks, for sticking up for the team. You guys never deserved what was dished out.

<3 Me

silentdabeast · 06-04-09, 07:09 PM

I want to be fair! EVERYONE who supports the WoWi/Curse bull totally trashes WM....but when I trash WowI/curse, I am demonized? Let's be "fair" shall we?

When you have two cars parked next to each other, both very nice cars - one being a Ford and the other being a Honda, the owners of those cars will swear up and down by them - they'll bring up all the trash they can about the opposing car and they'll turn their own car into a priceless possession. Is that not what is going on here? The WoWI/Curse supporters are simply embellishing the sites, trying real hard to bury the facts, or at least distort them to fit their spin on the truth...the WM people (like me) are doing the same things...we both trash each other and we both embellish what we support...It's what we screwed up selfish humans do ALL THE TIME! Just look at our screwed up US government if you need proof of that.

All I'm saying is, I have 10 fingers and they can type real fast. Let me type my spin just as you are typing yours, because if one person says to himself "yeah, Silent's right", then I win the day, and the same goes for you.

Now, if you want to truly convince me that WowI and Curse ARE the good guys in all this and WM is the liar, then show me the evidence! Show me the emails or the communications between the two! I'm normally not a man who asks for "evidence" and "scientific proof", but in this case, I think it's necessary. I would ask the same from WM too, by the way....(and I did get a bit from them).

Vyper · 06-04-09, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by silentdabeast

I want to be fair! EVERYONE who supports the WoWi/Curse bull totally trashes WM....but when I trash WowI/curse, I am demonized? Let's be "fair" shall we?

They aren't saying we must all bounce around spewing rainbows about how fantastic WoWInterface is *pauses to spew a few rainbows*

They aren't even saying you have to agree with them.

What they are saying is that they will no longer tolerate the kind of abuse that is being laid on them in their own house. You may not have noticed, but those who have crossed the line trashing WoWMatrix have gotten temporary bans, same as the WoWMatrix users, they just don't scream about it when the ban ends. However, I also have not seen someone defending WoWInterface take it to the extreme of the "rapist" post which triggered Cairenn's response.

Have any department stores where you live? Where I live, there is a Macy's just around the corner from my work, and for the last 6 months there have been protesters outside, handing out fliers and waving banners (determined buggers I have to give them that). Why wouldn't they be protesting in the store? Because the law says thats it's Macy's, and they can kick 'em out as they see fit, thus Macy's doesn't allow them to protest in-store.

WoWInterface on the other hand has been kind enough to give you floorspace in their store, to voice all your complaints. All they ask is that you maintain a little bit of decorum. So basically, it's like this. If you don't pull down your pants and leave a steaming pile in the middle of their store, your place will still be there. If on the other hand you choose to, your more than welcome to do as you please on the street corner, but not in WoWI's house.

voodoodad · 06-04-09, 07:27 PM

We didn't trash WM. We trashed their business practices. We didn't run to their forums and scream at them about the horrible things they did. Oh, you say they don't HAVE forums? Hmmm... I think the mods and admins have been way more than fair with you and others. You have contributed nothing of any value to anyone here. If I was one of the admins here, you would've been booted a LONG time ago. But they let you have your say, time and time again. Whether it was in the appropriate thread or not. No matter how many times you repeated the same ugly comments about how the admins didn't care about anything except making a buck. Or for example how you just tried to rip Minion to shreds by saying how bad it was, even for beta software, without giving even one hint of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I can't remember if it was you or not that said they could develope a much better addon sharing website. If it was you, then I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I renew our plea, PLEASE GO DO IT! However, with your attitude, I very much wish you luck in getting any self-respecting author to contribute even one addon. And if you try to host addons that you don't have permission for. Whoa, good luck with that too. You're gonna need it.

silentdabeast · 06-04-09, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by ChaosInc

Bout damned time.

I think I speak for most, if not all of the authors here when I say that we post our work voluntarily. Alway have, always will. Sure, we have our donation buttons and if users decide to use them, thanks! But I know that I have never expected to receive payment from a site just because of where I choose to host my files. Worry more about yourselves and keeping the site up and running than what you can give to the authors. We'll be fine. Just keep the flames and trolls off our cases and we'll all live in wonderful harmony with the bunnies and large collections of Dr. Seuss books.

So if you post your addons voluntarily, and you don't expect to receive payment, WHY don't you put your addons on WM so us ENDUSERS can be happy?? Seriously, what is the big deal? They're showing author's names now, they're doing all you're asking and more....All that you're doing by NOT posting to WM is making a LOT of people MAD as he|| at you and looking for alternative addons!

Look I write websites for churches. I make VERY LITTLE money doing it! VERY LITTLE. I charge enough to cover a few costs on my end (software, etc.). I do it because I LOVE doing it! I love offering the service, and, as geeky as this sounds, I love writing php. It's like painting to me, only not with a brush...at any rate. I don't care what the church does with the website afterward. If they keep me on as their webmaster, great...if they don't, fine. I don't even put my name anywhere on the site, because I don't care! Because it's not about me in the end - its about the enduser...those who benefit from my work. Knowing that I made someone's life a little better means more to me than credits or any of that.

Now, I'm sorry if I offended anyone at WoWi (not necessarily Curse...). But you have to understand, the WAY it was done...no warning, no explanation...it took me a week to figure out WHY I couldn't download cartographer and a couple other addons I have been using for months and months. When I found out what happened I was MAD as hell, not just at WoWi and Curse, but at WM too. But after I looked at the reasoning given by WM, Curse and WoWI, I still saw WM as the winner - simply because they were trying harder to help the enduser.

Like I said before - work out a deal with them and everyone is happy. Keep making them look like demonspawn, and you're going to keep pissing people like me off - because THOUSANDS of people use WM every day, and we ain't gonna stop. If YOU haven't tried WM, just to see how it works, then I suggest you do BEFORE you trash it again. I've tried Minion, CurseUI, and WowAce's UI, they all simply pale in comparison. If the authors would at least consider looking at it, seeing how it works, looking at it from the enduser point of view - this would be a no brainer!

If you can't see things from the enduser point of view, then you're not much of an author anyway, and you don't deserve to be on WM. You make your addons with the enduser in mind - be he YOU as the enduser, or others. IF you're not making them for that reason, then WHY are you making them? Why are you offering them? Why are you making it more difficult and time consuming for endusers to get them by putting them here or on Curse?

As I said in another post - the math don't add up. Think about it. Try WM for yourself.

If WowI and Curse are a little less arrogant about all this and a bit more enduser-friendly, then I have no issues at all...I'll DL from here and Curse if necessary even. But if all this is going to be is a war about "protecting the authors' rights", well...think about this - there would be no authors if there were no endusers...no one writes something and publishes it unless he hopes an enduser will use it. That's just silly. THAT'S why i said in a previous post that I don't care about the authors' rights! IT's not that I don't care, but it's that i want to see happy endusers, because happy endusers means happy authors. I don't write music for my own benefit only...and if I do, I don't share it with others. If I DO share it with others, I make it as easy to access and listen to as I can, so that I can have LOTS of people listening - so they can tell their friends and on and on. So, if it will make enduser more apt to use your addon by putting it on WM, then WHY NOT? What have you got to lose? As you said, you don't expect payment, and you do it voluntarily. Get over what WM did in the past! They're wanting to work with you now, so work with them! Shoot, I wouldn't care if there was WM, Curse AND WowI all offering addons. What I don't like is all the politics behind this game - it makes me not want to play it.

It's just a game, folks - it's not work making enemies over! We only live once in this world, let's not be like this. It's not worth it, it's not worth making people upset over.

silentdabeast · 06-04-09, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by voodoodad

We didn't trash WM. We trashed their business practices. We didn't run to their forums and scream at them about the horrible things they did. Oh, you say they don't HAVE forums? Hmmm... I think the mods and admins have been way more than fair with you and others. You have contributed nothing of any value to anyone here. If I was one of the admins here, you would've been booted a LONG time ago. But they let you have your say, time and time again. Whether it was in the appropriate thread or not. No matter how many times you repeated the same ugly comments about how the admins didn't care about anything except making a buck. Or for example how you just tried to rip Minion to shreds by saying how bad it was, even for beta software, without giving even one hint of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. I can't remember if it was you or not that said they could develope a much better addon sharing website. If it was you, then I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I renew our plea, PLEASE GO DO IT! However, with your attitude, I very much wish you luck in getting any self-respecting author to contribute even one addon. And if you try to host addons that you don't have permission for. Whoa, good luck with that too. You're gonna need it.

No it wasn't me who said that. In fact the only post I made making any detailed comments on Minion WAS CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. In fact I gave credit to portions of the software, where I felt credit was due.

But it has nothing to do with that. It s the stubborn attitude that says "we won't deal with WM, we don't care if they pay us!!!!!" THAT'S what get me! I mean give them a freaking chance! This is all FREE, NO COST, PROFITLESS, VOLUNTARY stuff, so in the end whether you give them a chance or not makes NO DIFFERENCE. But by hosting your stuff on their servers, you are making the ENDUSERS - the I don't know how many thousands of them worldwide - HAPPY as clams! Is that not WHY you make these addons?? It makes no good sense that you won't work with WM because of some grudge. Like I've been told dozens of times - this issue is dead, dead, dead...well if it's so dead...why aren't you using them? Why aren't you giving use endusers who rely on WM access to your stuff?

You say "you can get your addons from where ever you want"...YEAH! We want to use WM! So put your dang addons on their servers so we can enjoy them and mutually benefit from them!

If it were about profits, I could perhaps find reason to understand...BUT IT'S NOT! The WoWi admin, what's her name, made it clear that no one makes any money doing this, and that she is barely scraping by as it is....So if money isn't the issue, the only other possible issue is pride. And I said that before too. So I'm asking you to get over it, just as you're asking me to. I want to use cartographer and carbonite and other addons that I've used for a long time. But I will not go through the trouble of getting them from some website when I can get similar addons from WM much more quickly and easily...so you say "fine get those addons then"...but how does that...I mean why write the addons at all if we can't all benefit from them? Shoot, there are, seriously, WoW players who no nothing about WoWI and Curse! they started playing wow with no addons or by getting addons through WM. How do you think they felt when they discovered, when trying to get carto, that they can't anymore? IT just doesn't make sense....Put your addons on WM and let this issue die.

MidgetMage55 · 06-04-09, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by silentdabeast

<snip>

Now, if you want to truly convince me that WowI and Curse ARE the good guys in all this and WM is the liar, then show me the evidence! Show me the emails or the communications between the two! I'm normally not a man who asks for "evidence" and "scientific proof", but in this case, I think it's necessary. I would ask the same from WM too, by the way....(and I did get a bit from them).

If your trying to convince others that WM is worth the effort now would be a good time to share this proof. I will admit I'm rather curious. And you'll forgive me if I wont just take your word for it.

Yhor · 06-04-09, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by silentdabeast

So if you post your addons voluntarily, and you don't expect to receive payment, WHY don't you put your addons on WM so us ENDUSERS can be happy?? Seriously, what is the big deal? They're showing author's names now, they're doing all you're asking and more....All that you're doing by NOT posting to WM is making a LOT of people MAD as he|| at you and looking for alternative addons!

Because authors upload their addons to places that make THEM happy? Do you really think your convenience is greater than an addon author's convenience? They spend all of their time and effort making the addon, then they have to put it everywhere they're told to, by people wanting convenience... at the cost of inconveniencing the addon author? Really?

Look I write websites for churches. I make VERY LITTLE money doing it! VERY LITTLE. I charge enough to cover a few costs on my end (software, etc.). I do it because I LOVE doing it! I love offering the service, and, as geeky as this sounds, I love writing php. It's like painting to me, only not with a brush...at any rate. I don't care what the church does with the website afterward. If they keep me on as their webmaster, great...if they don't, fine. I don't even put my name anywhere on the site, because I don't care! Because it's not about me in the end - its about the enduser...those who benefit from my work. Knowing that I made someone's life a little better means more to me than credits or any of that.

Do those churches make demands of you to give your service for free, spend more time than necessary distributing your work, then bash you for "not doing it right"? If they did, would it still be fun? Would you still do it for next to nothing (free in addon author's case)?

Now, I'm sorry if I offended anyone at WoWi (not necessarily Curse...). But you have to understand, the WAY it was done...no warning, no explanation...it took me a week to figure out WHY I couldn't download cartographer and a couple other addons I have been using for months and months. When I found out what happened I was MAD as hell, not just at WoWi and Curse, but at WM too. But after I looked at the reasoning given by WM, Curse and WoWI, I still saw WM as the winner - simply because they were trying harder to help the enduser.

There had been warnings that WM would not be functional, as it were, for a long period of time prior to -this- breakage. If you haven't had the warning, you weren't trying very hard to look for anything related to WM on WoWI, Curse, Wowace, OR the official WoW forums. There has been a multitude of warnings.

Like I said before - work out a deal with them and everyone is happy. Keep making them look like demonspawn, and you're going to keep pissing people like me off - because THOUSANDS of people use WM every day, and we ain't gonna stop. If YOU haven't tried WM, just to see how it works, then I suggest you do BEFORE you trash it again. I've tried Minion, CurseUI, and WowAce's UI, they all simply pale in comparison. If the authors would at least consider looking at it, seeing how it works, looking at it from the enduser point of view - this would be a no brainer!

They made themselves "look like demonspawn", they have used the business practices described in this thread for as long as they've existed. No one has said, from an enduser's perspective, that it (WM) did not do a great job of updating addons (except maybe myself, but I don't like programs altering my files). People did say that the way they did this great updating of addon, was detrimental to the sites that WM was pulling the addons from.

If you can't see things from the enduser point of view, then you're not much of an author anyway, and you don't deserve to be on WM. You make your addons with the enduser in mind - be he YOU as the enduser, or others. IF you're not making them for that reason, then WHY are you making them? Why are you offering them? Why are you making it more difficult and time consuming for endusers to get them by putting them here or on Curse?

As I said in another post - the math don't add up. Think about it. Try WM for yourself.

If WowI and Curse are a little less arrogant about all this and a bit more enduser-friendly, then I have no issues at all...I'll DL from here and Curse if necessary even. But if all this is going to be is a war about "protecting the authors' rights", well...think about this - there would be no authors if there were no endusers...no one writes something and publishes it unless he hopes an enduser will use it. That's just silly. THAT'S why i said in a previous post that I don't care about the authors' rights! IT's not that I don't care, but it's that i want to see happy endusers, because happy endusers means happy authors. I don't write music for my own benefit only...and if I do, I don't share it with others. If I DO share it with others, I make it as easy to access and listen to as I can, so that I can have LOTS of people listening - so they can tell their friends and on and on. So, if it will make enduser more apt to use your addon by putting it on WM, then WHY NOT? What have you got to lose? As you said, you don't expect payment, and you do it voluntarily. Get over what WM did in the past! They're wanting to work with you now, so work with them! Shoot, I wouldn't care if there was WM, Curse AND WowI all offering addons. What I don't like is all the politics behind this game - it makes me not want to play it.

Authors don't benefit from having more users, they suffer from it, unless the addon is so great it gets tons of donations. Why people think authors suffer from you not using their addons is a mystery to me. I just don't get it.

It's just a game, folks - it's not work making enemies over! We only live once in this world, let's not be like this. It's not worth it, it's not worth making people upset over.

WM started it!

Torhal · 06-04-09, 08:11 PM

WTB clue-by-four. Ready to bash heads.

Bluspacecow · 06-04-09, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Yhor

Authors don't benefit from having more users, they suffer from it, unless the addon is so great it gets tons of donations. Why people think authors suffer from you not using their addons is a mystery to me. I just don't get it.

QFT.

All of the addon authors I've gotten a response back on this say the same thing : "I started developing this addon because I saw a need. Then I shared it with my mates...Oh look here's this site offering free hosting and several cool author tools *upload*"

If all the users of an addon would all mysteriously dry up does the addon author stop maintaining his/her addon ?

My evidence points to *no way*

And yes. Mean and arrogant as it sound the less users an addon has the better. That's less people that post support tickets about problems. A small group of users who provide constructive feedback is way more usefull then a crowd of users who won't read author notes , don't know how to give a decent bug report better than "it don't go" and who spam his comments page on stuff he's already posted a walk around for.

Originally Posted by Yhor

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv326/Yhor_emotes/

/steals Yhor's smilies

voodoodad · 06-04-09, 08:13 PM

Have you not read all of the earlier posts that specifically stated that WoWI made overtures to WM and never got any response? Or are you ignoring those posts just so you can still say "I'm pissed and want my WM to work again!" Or is it that you just don't believe it simply because its WoWI saying it? You asked for WoWI to provide proof that WM never responded. I ask you, how do you supply proof of something that didn't happen. If WoWI were lying, they wouldn't supply said proof, and if they were telling the truth, they couldn't supply it. I choose to believe the latter, while you obviously cling to the former theory. You continue to run in circles like a dog chasing its own tail, thinking that if you just run fast enough, or in your case come up with an argument that works, you will finally get WoWI to change their minds and let WM start sucking on the bandwidth teat again. NEWSFLASH! Ain't gonna happen. Whatever your theory about the why or the how it was done, guess what? IT'S DONE! I am really sorry that you're unhappy about the way things went. I really say that with all sincerity. I wish that you would feel welcome to join in the discussions that go on here, pro or con. I have never felt as welcomed as I did when I first joined this incredible web-site. That's why I support it so vehemently. That's why all of us do. Every day it becomes more like a bunch of old friends sitting around a really big dinner table, discussing things about... Well, sometimes anything at all. You say it's all a game, but you don't know the kind of support we all feel here. This isn't a game for the admins, smods, authors or the end-users. It's more personal here than I think you will ever realize. I hope you see it one of these days, I really do.

MidgetMage55 · 06-04-09, 08:20 PM

If you truly believed what your saying that its just a game and not worth people getting upset over then you would have accepted the situation for what it is. Either given up on the addons you cant get through WM or sucked up that pride and just get them from where the authors choose to host them.

And now for something completely different:

When your drinking a V8 its like drinking a pizza without the cheese.

voodoodad · 06-04-09, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by MidgetMage55

When your drinking a V8 its like drinking a pizza without the cheese.

Do they make an Italian sausage and mushroom V8 now?

Yhor · 06-04-09, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by MidgetMage55

And now for something completely different:

When your drinking a V8 its like drinking a pizza without the cheese.

I love V8. It's one of the things I continued to drink, after I stopped drinking, that I drank as a result of my drunkenness.

silentdabeast · 06-04-09, 08:29 PM

Ohohoh....so you put your addons HERE for...yourself...

Well, why don't you just keep them on your own computer? Why don't you just make a guild website (as most guild have) on one of those free sites like wowstead and put your addons there, for your guild and buddies?

See again, you're not making sense. If the addons aren't meant for everyone, why are you giving everyone access to them?

Again as I said before about what WM has said and what WoWI has said...I want to SEE what they said, not just be told by authors and "site supporters" what you were told was said. As I posted on Curse, and now I am posting here, if you can deliver da goods, as it were, and prove to me that WM was not trying to work with you - that all they put on their site is a lie - then I will do whatever I can to make WM look like the biggest pieces of H.S. on the internet (except for sites that relate to horse fecal matter). But I will NOT do this unless I have something concrete. That's not fair to WM, and it's not fair to the enduser. The only reason I do it a bit to wowi and curse is because, frankly, I don't like them nearly as much as I like WM (with regard to how I can get addons quickly and easily). The PEOPLE behind curse and wowi are just people - just like me - and I make no judgments about them.

It's simply not enough to say "GranTorino is the BEST movie of 2009". Perhaps it is, but let me see it first, then we can both rejoice in how absolutely awesome it truly is! Call me a doubting Thomas, but if I was one of the disciples, I would probably be the one who says "show me his hands and feet, then I'll believe!"

LittleWhiteDove · 06-04-09, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by silentdabeast

......................Now, if you want to truly convince me that WowI and Curse ARE the good guys in all this and WM is the liar, then show me the evidence! Show me the emails or the communications between the two!

It has been stated in this tread that WOWI tried to communicate with WM. There was no response. Therefore, they can not show you the evidence. Please stop calling them liars.

Originally Posted by silentdabeast

...................... I would ask the same from WM too, by the way....(and I did get a bit from them).

I am not asking you to show us your proof. I am taking your word that you personally got something from WM. I am not calling you a liar.

voodoodad · 06-04-09, 08:35 PM

So anyway, about that whole V8 thing... I'm intrigued. I haven't had a V8 in several years. Think I'll go get one right now.

/konk self on forehead

silentdabeast · 06-04-09, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by voodoodad

Have you not read all of the earlier posts that specifically stated that WoWI made overtures to WM and never got any response?

Have you not read on WM's FAQ page that they said the EXACT SAME THING? They said that THEY tried to reach out to WowI and got ignored, and curse tried to buy them out!

do you see??? two different and completely opposing stories here! Personally, we've been letting the US government get by with crap like this for years, and now we want the TRUTH.

Well that's all I'm asking for...objective truth...I want to know what REALLY went on, not based on someones spin....I want 0 spin, 0 lens...I want facts. Both stores can't be true because if they were, this world would be on the verge of imploding on itself...

A cannot say that story B is the true story while at the same time say that C is a liar, while C, at the same time is saying that A is the liar because story D is the truth...Either A or C is lying....You cannot have two totally different objective truths regarding a single story.

silentdabeast · 06-04-09, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by LittleWhiteDove

It has been stated in this tread that WOWI tried to communicate with WM. There was no response. Therefore, they can not show you the evidence. Please stop calling them liars.

I am not asking you to show us your proof. I am taking your word that you personally got something from WM. I am not calling you a liar.

I won't show you my proof because, frankly, no one has offered to show the attempted correspondence that WowI made with WM. Whether WM responded or not makes no diff...if WoWI DID in fact try and contact WM, then there should be a record of that contact.