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Unread 12-29-09, 04:17 PM   #1
Weizegger
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Def caped 540 +

Hi every1,
I just like to know if stacking above 540 def is a waist or not.
Today i heard in the guild saying that having more then 540 def is allways nice to have.
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Unread 12-29-09, 04:56 PM   #2
MidgetMage55
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There really isn't a point in stacking beyond that. There is a diminishing return involved past the cap. I wouldn't go as far as obsessively trying to eliminate any point over the cap as the overage has no negative effect.

This is an old article (from Mar. 2008) but it gives the general idea how defense and diminishing returns work. It also explains that while going over the cap provides benefits that it in essence is overkill.

Defense Cap Defined

So far as I'm aware the mechanics discussed here haven't changed to the point where the article is invalid but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Unread 12-29-09, 05:04 PM   #3
Republic
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Originally Posted by Weizegger View Post
Hi every1,
I just like to know if stacking above 540 def is a waist or not.
Today i heard in the guild saying that having more then 540 def is allways nice to have.
For starters, I'd suggest not thinking of 540 as a "cap" as it were. The 540 value is simply the value at which you will not receive a crit from a raid boss. Stacking defense on top of this is not really a good thing or a bad thing. It all depends on your other attributes like avoidance, mitigation, and stamina. I would only stack defense once you feel like you are sufficient in all the other categories while maintaining the 540 value. It's hard to determine if you are sufficient in the other categories, as only you know how your tanking feels when you are doing it. For some, 28k health might be enough. For others, 35k feels comfortable. Etc.

If you raid, 540 would be the minimum acceptable value. If you run heroics, 535 should suffice. In all places, only you know if you have enough stamina, etc. for the places you visit, the healers that run with you, etc. I've had some healers struggle to keep me alive when I've had 40k health, others that don't have problems when I have 30k (when I stack more avoidance gear).

In any event, it's a trial and error process. At the very least, you know what 540 is all about now. Is more better? Sure, but not at the expense of other essential attributes.

Get to 540 defense>stack stamina>stack avoidance>consider adding more defense after all these things are comfortable for what your toon does. Of course, all this is thrown out the door if you are a druid. Druids can spec crit immunity and thus, literally, 540 defense is a thing of the past for them, although they still benefit from defense (just not as much as warriors or paladins). Druids today should spec crit immunity, pile on a mess of agility (for dodge), and become obsessive about stacking stamina. Of all the tanks, it's easiest to gear a druid (in my opinion). "Monkey gear" makes the best feral tank gear in today's game.

Good luck
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Unread 12-29-09, 06:41 PM   #4
Republic
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Originally Posted by MidgetMage55 View Post
There really isn't a point in stacking beyond that. There is a diminishing return involved past the cap. I wouldn't go as far as obsessively trying to eliminate any point over the cap as the overage has no negative effect.

This is an old article (from Mar. 2008) but it gives the general idea how defense and diminishing returns work. It also explains that while going over the cap provides benefits that it in essence is overkill.

Defense Cap Defined

So far as I'm aware the mechanics discussed here haven't changed to the point where the article is invalid but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
The "cap" has nothing to do with diminishing returns. Simply put, you will get diminishing returns from let's say, your parry ability at every level you can parry. It's true at 40, it's true at 80. Diminishing returns in this case comes from the frequency the parry ability might be used, not its level value or whatever.
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Unread 12-29-09, 07:58 PM   #5
zero-kill
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In other words, YES.

Going over the capped mark of 540 is a waste and should be avoided unless no other stat is available for +enchant/gemmed.

The math that is involved is nonsensical enough to imply this.
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Unread 12-29-09, 08:39 PM   #6
Rilgamon
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Go post on the tanking forum that defense has a cap of 540 and imply that beyond that additional defense is wasted. I'd grab on to some kind of immovable object first.

Ghostcrawler when someone said:

The current cap is 540 defense skill. That's it, not very confusing if you know how to read and know how to add. Most of those skills are developed in grades 1-4.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&pageNo=12#226

Edit:

With my warrior tank I try to have more than 540 because I like to be an easy to heal tank.
With my pala I collect everything else but not def because the selfheal helps alot to keep me alive
and gives the healer an easy job.

But raiding as a tank means to have more than one equip and decide from boss to boss.
You should have at least one for stamina and for avoidance.

Last edited by Rilgamon : 12-29-09 at 08:53 PM.
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Unread 12-29-09, 10:44 PM   #7
TekNoir
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In my opinion, it would be a waste since they're talking about removing defense in Cataclysm.

(Source)
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Unread 12-30-09, 02:42 AM   #8
Republic
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Originally Posted by TekNoir View Post
In my opinion, it would be a waste since they're talking about removing defense in Cataclysm.

(Source)
With all due respect to a "Lead Designer", that man is completely wrong many times in analyzing things about the community. The reason tanks are scarce (if in fact they are) is because kids prefer to stroke dps numbers rather than play a critical part in keeping folks alive either with shields or heals. Thus, the reasoning, or at least part of it, for them "doing away" with defense is messed up. If you read his bullet points on getting rid of defense, he's basically saying one thing with which I agree - it's too confusing for the community. It requires a little more reading than most people are willing to do if they want to truly understand tanking mechanics for each respective tanking class.

Bah, I don't get it. I wish they'd stop micromanaging things like this and focus on broader scopes of interest. We don't need a complete mechanical change every patch. Know what I mean?
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Unread 12-30-09, 09:12 AM   #9
zero-kill
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This is the same argument used, not only because of lore, that DKs shouldn't be able to use a shield. I can understand the all-out carnage that the DK class is supposed to dish and being able to tank is a side mention.
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Unread 07-14-10, 07:51 PM   #10
Squidbeard
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Hey my main is a Protection Warrior, 540 is the cap you want to reach as a minimum so that you dont get crit...yeah we all know this.

Being over 540 is not a evil thing, if you cant avoid it, as defence obviously increases your avoidence stats = win for tanks.

However, given that it is more beneficial to stack Dodge/Parry gems dependant on where you diminishing returns is at, you should stack Dodge/Parry over defence once you hit 540.

**Side note alot of people are still asking if 540 is the defence cap for ICC. This is still the case! not 545
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Unread 07-14-10, 11:02 PM   #11
Taryble
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540 is NOT a cap. It is a MINIMUM for Raid Tanking.
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Unread 07-15-10, 02:53 AM   #12
GT4
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In one sentence: Until you have 540 defense, it's the most useful stat to tank raid instances, after that it's a simple avoidance - and thus second priority - stat like dodge or parry.
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Unread 11-09-10, 08:53 PM   #13
saphirre12
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Good job on bumping 7 months old thread
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Unread 11-09-10, 09:01 PM   #14
thebigmunch
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Originally Posted by saphirre12 View Post
Good job on bumping 7 months old thread
Good job bumping a 4 month old response.
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