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04-14-09, 05:54 AM   #61
Neuro
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That's a Blizzard bug. I've never been able to replicate it on my own, but one or two of my users get it on occasion, so I threw in a simple error check with a single line of code. The fact that I waited until a new patch to do it is indicative of how minor a change it is.

What exactly is your point?
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04-14-09, 05:57 AM   #62
Rendus
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Originally Posted by Neuro View Post
That's a Blizzard bug. I've never been able to replicate it on my own, but one or two of my users get it on occasion, so I threw in a simple error check with a single line of code. The fact that I waited until a new patch to do it is indicative of how minor a change it is.

What exactly is your point?
I've edited my previous post to indicate I'm wandering off, but I'll throw one more reply here.

My point is, if addon authors can't be bothered to even update their TOC value, I'm not terribly likely to bother with the addon.

The three month window I used was hyperbole. I could've said 6 months and been just as accurate. If I shifted it from 50/50 to 33/66, I could have easily said a year or two. Easily.

Good night.
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04-14-09, 05:57 AM   #63
FrankN
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Originally Posted by Rendus View Post
Yet earlier I was given grief for intending to do the same thing, minus the rehosting on WOWI.

Your compilation and mine are in the same vein, failing to benefit the author in any way.
It was not about making a compilation, it was about hosting on another page. Give proper credits to the authors and post it on the pages where the addons are supported. Most authors do not complain about that.
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04-14-09, 06:03 AM   #64
Miserian
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While I understand the point of shutting down WM (bandwidth leeching, no acknowledgment of author rights, etc), what baffles me is the timing. Arguably the biggest patch in WoW's short history arrives today, and the rug is pulled out from under an extremely popular addon updater. And before links are posted (again) to months old forum posts explaining the ongoing battle with WM, I'm sure it's safe to say the majority of visitors to this site never toil in the forums. A simple front page post a few days ago letting people know what's up and what to expect come patch day (with links to the appropriate updaters), would I'm sure have saved the admins and authors the mountain of grief that is sure to be headed their way.
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04-14-09, 06:14 AM   #65
Slakah
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Originally Posted by Rendus View Post
but I hope people will at least consider (or reconsider) why they release addons in the first place - To be used.
Trust me, if I made mods to please users like you, I would have quit loooooong ago.

I currently do it because I find it interesting, and I upload my mods here because the community, website and features are far better than the competitors.

I've actually made it a habit of clicking on everyone's "Addon Author" pip, just to see what sort of atrocities were written by the people arguing this, and only one person that I've noticed (I'm sure I've missed someone) has more addons updated in the last 3 months than not (this author being Tristanian, as a matter of fact. Salut.).
I'm not going to update a mod which works, that seems pretty bizarre step to take.

Last edited by Slakah : 04-14-09 at 06:17 AM.
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04-14-09, 06:22 AM   #66
Tristanian
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Originally Posted by Miserian View Post
While I understand the point of shutting down WM (bandwidth leeching, no acknowledgment of author rights, etc), what baffles me is the timing.
I think we've already established that the timing was deliberate, as was the lack of any prior notice. What did you expect them to say ? "Hey guys, we've just devised a way to block you, so we'd like to make this public knowledge".

Arguably the biggest patch in WoW's short history arrives today
In terms of overall changes (classes + content), perhaps. In terms of pure content, no, we've seen it before (AQ, Naxx @60, BT, etc). In terms of addon breakage, we've been through much worse (e.g combat log system changes) and survived just fine.


A simple front page post a few days ago letting people know what's up and what to expect come patch day (with links to the appropriate updaters), would I'm sure have saved the admins and authors the mountain of grief that is sure to be headed their way.
A mountain of grief, why ? Curse already reported that their bandwidth usage went down 30% after they blocked WM. This actually ensures that more bandwidth will be available for the sites to handle the distribution process, less downtimes, less issues due to overwhelming strain on the servers.
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04-14-09, 06:23 AM   #67
Cairenn
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Originally Posted by Tristanian View Post
A mountain of grief, why ? Curse already reported that their bandwidth usage went down 30% after they blocked WM. This actually ensures that more bandwidth will be available for the sites to handle the distribution process, less downtimes, less issues due to overwhelming strain on the servers.
And we dropped by almost 50%.
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04-14-09, 06:31 AM   #68
Miserian
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Originally Posted by Tristanian View Post
A mountain of grief, why ?
As I said previously, the timing. When the masses fire up their trusted WM and see that it's not working..or at least not working like it was YESTERDAY..where are they going to flock to? Right here...with their complaints and questions. However misguided and misinformed the average addon user is, many of them WILL flood this very thread with their misguided and misinformed questions once the servers go live.
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04-14-09, 07:31 AM   #69
Yhor
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Originally Posted by Miserian View Post
As I said previously, the timing. When the masses fire up their trusted WM and see that it's not working..or at least not working like it was YESTERDAY..where are they going to flock to? Right here...with their complaints and questions. However misguided and misinformed the average addon user is, many of them WILL flood this very thread with their misguided and misinformed questions once the servers go live.
And if 5 out of 100 see that what was going on was wrong, it's worth it.
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04-14-09, 08:08 AM   #70
Rendus
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You know what I like most about the Curse client?

That it installs it's profiler and automatically uploads it's results.

And doesn't obey the "Automatically install Curse Profiler" checkbox. Uncheck it and it continues to install itself.

It's a fantastic feature, and makes me feel so confident and happy about using this thing.
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04-14-09, 08:10 AM   #71
kalidav
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As a fellow web developer I sympathise with sites such as Wowinterface and Curse – the bandwidth required must be simply enormous, and having millions of people pinging your site for addon updates is a huge strain on servers. Having said that I think the change to block WM is overall detrimental to users; and I for one am going to have to go back to updating addons manually.

I think ultimately what everything comes down two is – bandwidth requirements and advertising. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a remote API similar to Facebook. Bandwidth problems could be solved through this as both the operations could be optimised, and results returned compressed (as opposed to scraping every, single addon page required). Then, you can distribute private keys to access said API to applications provided that they display your ads (somehow) to the users. If the ads are removed from the app, then the site (you) can disable the key and block the program’s access to the addon API.

Whether you agree or not, the WoWinterface and Curse updaters aren’t convenient in their current forms (and the curse one is just downright bloat ware). If you created this API, you could use it not only in your own applications but give developers the freedom to work with you, rather than against you to create fast, simple applcations that do exactly what users want (to update their addons) and nothing more.

And that's my 2c.

Last edited by kalidav : 04-14-09 at 08:15 AM.
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04-14-09, 08:12 AM   #72
Kaelten
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Originally Posted by Rendus View Post
You know what I like most about the Curse client?

That it installs it's profiler and automatically uploads it's results.

And doesn't obey the "Automatically install Curse Profiler" checkbox. Uncheck it and it continues to install itself.

It's a fantastic feature, and makes me feel so confident and happy about using this thing.
To stop it from keeping the profiler installed you must disable data uploads on the game manager panel.

The option on the preferences panel just controls the default of new games.
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04-14-09, 08:21 AM   #73
Sarrish
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The problem is, WoWMatrix works and it works good, very good. There is no other program that makes installing and updating addons easy and fast. Curse's updater is pitiful and WoW Interface has nothing, so until one of the two have something that works WoWMatrix should be left alone.

Curse and WoW Interface should band together and work with WOWMatrix instead of against them.

Your fight against WOWMatrix is hurting the users and will continue to do so until you come up with something better.

Last edited by Sarrish : 04-14-09 at 08:24 AM.
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04-14-09, 08:28 AM   #74
adlWoW
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Although I understand the reasoning behind this action, I'm disappointed. WoWMatrix did one important thing for me - bypassed the ultra-annoying confirmations when you copy and replace files in Vista. Frankly it's just easier to delete each individual addon folder completely and copy the new ones in, which adds an extra time-consuming step. For sure I won't install the Curse updater because I try to avoid that site as much as possible. If the WoWinterface one works I can give it try - does it actually work, or is it still "under development?"
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04-14-09, 08:28 AM   #75
Evolution85
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Good for you!!!

WoWmatrix is nothing but a bandwidth leech. And then doesnt even bother to give Authors proper credit...
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04-14-09, 08:30 AM   #76
Shirik
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Originally Posted by Rendus View Post
WowMatrix will easily work around this, I'm sure - A change of a useragent string, throttling update polling, something like that, and we'll be back at square one, with users who just want to update their addons caught in the lurch, between the horrible interfaces of these sites or their clients, and the desire of these sites to cut off WowMatrix.
You have absolutely no idea what we've done to block WoWMatrix if you're going to say something like this. None of this would work, and in fact these are things that WM already does.

They will not be working around this anytime soon. I'll say that much.
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04-14-09, 08:33 AM   #77
Shirik
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Originally Posted by Sarrish View Post
Curse and WoW Interface should band together and work with WOWMatrix instead of against them.
We have tried to do this forever, and they have proven consistently that they do not wish to communicate with us. Since they are harming our sites it is unfortunately necessary for us to take these steps. We would not be taking these steps if it weren't necessary.

Please do your research before making a comment like this in the future and know the history of the product.
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04-14-09, 08:39 AM   #78
FreAk98354
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Great, now instead of one button click, I have to go through using the Horribad Wowinterface updater, with my trusty wowinterface window behind it to copy and paste mod numbers.

Seriously, you couldn't have waited until you had something a little more friendly to **** block me from getting my addon's easily?
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04-14-09, 08:40 AM   #79
Shirik
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I've had to delete a few posts in this thread now. Please keep this thread on-topic; I don't want to have to lock it. This thread is about WoWMatrix and what has been done to counteract its operation. Please do not deviate from the topic. (The remaining posts are on-topic, if for some reason you need a way to determine what is on-topic and what is not.)
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04-14-09, 08:41 AM   #80
Sarrish
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Originally Posted by Shirik View Post
We have tried to do this forever, and they have proven consistently that they do not wish to communicate with us. Since they are harming our sites it is unfortunately necessary for us to take these steps. We would not be taking these steps if it weren't necessary.

Please do your research before making a comment like this in the future and know the history of the product.
My research shows that you should have developed an updater that works before blocking WoW Matrix. Instead, you have pinned the users in the middle of your little war. But it looks like you do not care about the end user in this matter, otherwise you would be a little more respectful when replying to our posts.
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

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