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04-05-09, 09:08 AM   #1
vincentgdg
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Question very low frame rates in raids

Hello.

I have been testing NUI+ for some weeks now and I like the idea. :-) But as I play Wintergrasp twice a day I always wondered why the screen freezes to 3-0 fps when I have about 15+ ppl on the screen. It was impossible for me to do a thing and I was dead before I could move.

After days I deactivated NUI and reactivated bartender and squeenix - all other addons stayed the same. And voila, the frame rates are at normal again.

I have played with 50+ addons for several years now and never had performance issues. It started with NUI.

Regards
Thomas

P.S.: I have read the answer to the other posting, but as NONE of my other addons had performance issues for 4 years now and NUI has, I do not believe that the problem is on the side of the other addons. :-)
Is it possible to install some kind of benchmark into your addon that shows you/us if it gets called to often/not fast enough/whatever? That would help alot more than un-/reinstalling 50+ addons.

Last edited by vincentgdg : 04-05-09 at 09:27 AM.
 
04-05-09, 10:01 AM   #2
spiel2001
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Let me point you to this FAQ and see if it addresses the issue...

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=21716

For the record, I do 40 man AV on my laptop using nUI regularly and never see frame rates like you're describing.
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04-05-09, 10:55 AM   #3
neuralassassin
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The problem with your theory that nUI must be the problem because it didn't start till then is very strange if you read the link. nUI has a lot of users and if this was an issue caused by nUI don't you think all of us or at least a good portion would be having the problem? I happen to use probably close to 50-75 mods on top of nUI and have never had an issue. Do your self a favor rename your wtf files don't delete them then move your add-ons to a folder on your desktop log into wow with nothing, log out then install nUI and log back in. You wont be losing anything you can put it all back very easily

As a side note I remember hearing something about the wow garbage collector being an issue when in game memory was over 100 mbs. Might that be when your freezing occurs?
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04-05-09, 11:18 AM   #4
Baltharus
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haha i raid with less than 10fps.. but thats with nUI or without it (crappy computer how i hate you)


sad thing is i still out DPS most of my guilies o.O..
 
04-05-09, 11:25 AM   #5
spiel2001
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My general experience is that most people who have properly installed nUI experience either a performance gain with nUI or no measurable change. A handful have the FPS issue that's been raised here in this thread and for 95% of those people, following the clean install directions either fixes the problem or actually gets them a net gain in performance.

All the same, there's always a handful that it just never works out for... I'm not sure if that's a case of failing to follow the directions, something oddball in their system or just Murphy's Law in action... it's just the nature of the animal.

The one thing I had to come to grips with way back when nUI first passed the 2,000 download mark was that there was no way this program would ever appeal to everyone or work for everyone. I can only do my best and have to accept that it will never be good enough.

~smile~
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04-05-09, 11:42 AM   #6
Baltharus
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at least you try to make as many people as possible happy!!!

(now if i could convince spiel to buy me a new computer .....)
 
04-05-09, 11:58 AM   #7
spiel2001
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I'll be more than happy to buy one for you...

What's your credit card number?

~evil grin~
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04-05-09, 12:27 PM   #8
Baltharus
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my number is .....


wait...


i think i m getting screwed here .....
 
04-05-09, 01:00 PM   #9
spiel2001
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*hides jar of Vaseline*
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04-05-09, 01:16 PM   #10
Seer
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Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
All the same, there's always a handful that it just never works out for... I'm not sure if that's a case of failing to follow the directions, something oddball in their system or just Murphy's Law in action... it's just the nature of the animal.
Well, being an oddball....

Just for "fun" I tried a clean install again with no add ons installed I get ~122 fps .. And turning around like madness hardly seems to impact things (tho.. the default fps meter is somewhat akward :-p)..

Installed nUI and it drops to 70 maxing out at 77, dropping to 50 or lower when turning around like mad..

That is with almost everything at max, except shadows (set at 1, else it is a killer) at a ress of 1650*1080 with, 24 bit and 1x sampling.

With my old install, I set the cap at 60 with tripple buffering on and set the sampling at 4 times (doesn't affect fps much apperently).. In crowded places (like Stormwind) fps is 40 to 50 with nUI, stable at 60 without.. At less crowded places it's 60 unless moving fast, then it drops to 50 or so... In outland it's worse tho :-p

Haven't tried raiding 25 men yet without nUI, but during fights even with everything at low fps drops to 20 (haven't tried it with only nUI yet tho, maybe next week).


Anyway, I like nUI way to much :-) So, sticking to nUI like glue.

BTW, config is
AMD 9850 2.50Ghz
AMD 4870 512Mb
8Gb of ram
Windows 7 (Vista was bit slower in FPS ;-p)

/edit
Only thing I can't work out, the ptr always seems to get better fps (except when Lich was in beta...).. Then again SW is way less crowded then.. (Without nUI the FPS is still better tho, only 10 fps usually less then)

/edit2
One thing I haven't tried... Might try running with vsync of for a longer period of time..
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Last edited by Seer : 04-05-09 at 01:36 PM.
 
04-05-09, 01:23 PM   #11
spiel2001
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It would be interesting to see what the FPS is in raids with all of the features of nUI, but not nUI (using other mods). That would be a tall order to attempt though I suspect.
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04-05-09, 01:55 PM   #12
Seer
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Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
It would be interesting to see what the FPS is in raids with all of the features of nUI, but not nUI (using other mods). That would be a tall order to attempt though I suspect.
Guess I could try, hopefully we'll do a 25 manner next week again, still recovering from leading a 7 hour raid today........ Could always relog between a boss or so as well to turn nUI on and off. (25 as it is more noticeable in there, and allready have a copy of wow as a test for new setups anyway)

Now... What mods did nUi replace... Hm.. HUD, dot timers... unit frames... Damn....

btw, with vsync of, fps hovers around 80 in flight, stays fine in less crowded areas (80 to 90) but drops when near the action house in sw to ~40. Without nUI ~50
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Last edited by Seer : 04-05-09 at 02:04 PM.
 
04-05-09, 08:05 PM   #13
Petrah
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Seer,

Check this thread here. Maybe you will find something that will help increase your performance. With the system you have, you should be seeing a lot more FPS than what you are.... especially in SW.
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04-06-09, 12:43 AM   #14
Seer
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Originally Posted by Silenia View Post
Seer,

Check this thread here. Maybe you will find something that will help increase your performance. With the system you have, you should be seeing a lot more FPS than what you are.... especially in SW.
Pretty sure I did those things, and well.. more demanding games in the gfx department run a lot more stable, tho.. don't see why my peak performance in non crowded places is 120 fps without nUI and 70 with :-p

But will have another look again, not to sure about the ATI stuff since I did reinstall a month orso ago, fps wasn't that much better then either tho.


Thanks for the heads up Sil
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Last edited by Seer : 04-06-09 at 12:49 AM.
 
04-06-09, 01:07 AM   #15
Baltharus
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wish i got 20 fps in a raid

really nUI only drops my frames by about 5.. but my maxx is about 34 alone somewhere in azeroth.. less in outlands and northrend...


but i dont see why nUI would have such a large impact on your system and not as big a impact on mine (very poor sytem.. think wally world HP)
 
04-06-09, 03:23 AM   #16
Seer
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Originally Posted by Baltharus View Post
but i dont see why nUI would have such a large impact on your system and not as big a impact on mine (very poor sytem.. think wally world HP)
Neither do I... And well, it's not the biggest problem around really, just strange tho a real anoyance in 25 raids.. Would prefer a steady 30 fps with drops to 25 then 50 fps with drops to 20. (btw, turning down effects didn't seem to help much, never raided without nUI in Lich tho)

It does seem related to how many people are online or near me anyway, it's better early in the morning usually.

Was also thinking the onboard nic (nvidia) is causing problems for the drops in crowded areas tho not sure how that is related... (when 2.x came life it as mostly PC's with an nvidia nic (afaik) had DC issues is SW, shatt etc etc.).

Also a lot of people with an 4870 complain about low fps to be honest (I wouldn't call 120 low tho)..
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Last edited by Seer : 04-06-09 at 03:28 AM.
 
04-06-09, 04:19 AM   #17
spiel2001
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Unhappy

Keep in mind that when you're in a crowded area, that actually has nothing to do with nUI at all because it only interacts with units that are in your group/raid/target -- I have seen this phenomena myself since the 3.0 patch to WoW and I know it has something to do with the graphics engine.

It is only a theory, but I think having an intense mod such as nUI magnifies the problem by adding CPU load to a system that's at the breaking point as it is. Make no mistake, nUI is replacing darn near the entire UI, so it has a penalty for use no matter how you slice it... add that on top of a graphics engine on the verge of collapse due to all of the elements it has to render in a busy area and suddenly your frame rate craters.

I also firmly believe Bliz flat out broke add-ons with the 3.0 patch and given the new add-on development guidelines, I'm less confident they intend to fix it. Clearly, as of the 3.0 WoW patch add-on performace dropped dramatically and there's an unmistakable penalty of having add-on memory usage at or near the 100 meg mark now.

Tie all those things together and even a hot gaming PC is going to see issues unless all of the stars and planets line up just so.
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04-06-09, 05:11 AM   #18
Seer
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Yea, the fps is low with or without nUI in crowded places(well the times I tried), just in the raid I haven't tested it without. I think the game engine is busy digesting data of other chars running around or something and the gfx part of the game is not getting enough attention/data or something.

CPU load is on average 25% on 2 cores, WoW by default doesn't use the 2 other cores, doesn't really matter in performance if I set it to use all 4. Memory usage of addons seems to hover around 70Mb average.

I'm also a bit amused to see how the FPS can fluctuate a lot when fishing and mostly standing still :-p

Personnaly, I think WoW workst best on older hardware and it's just not optimized to use newer hardware even tho Blizz added duo core support..


Going to try "/console fixedfunction 0" (see Sil her link) later today, tho I'm pretty sure I tried that some time ago.
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04-06-09, 12:35 PM   #19
Seer
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Quick question, does the FPS counter of nUI update more often then the FPS counter of WoW and/or performancefu ? (If anybody knows anyway). Mostly asking because all 3 at times show different values, perfomancefu and nUI being closer to each other then the ingame one.

Anyway...
50-60 fps at the moment in SW crowded, no add ons loaded.
40-55 fps at the moment in SW crowded, only nUI.
100 fps when I move towards the city gates with nUI, when I turn around to "watch" the crowd it drops back to 55 :-s
115 fps when I move towards the city gates with no add ons loaded, when I turn around to "watch" the crowd it drops back to 85 :-s

However, I find it a bit hard to test, for some reason, other players refuse to stand still and at times the crowd is also near the gates..


/edit

Hm.. With spartanui I get around 60-70 FPS in more crowded place of SW.. Think I'm going banana...
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Last edited by Seer : 04-06-09 at 12:47 PM.
 
04-06-09, 12:39 PM   #20
spiel2001
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I'm certain nUI updates the frame rate indicator more frequently than the Bliz one does. I have no idea what frequency PerformanceFu uses though.

A 10% drop in performance using nUI is probably not out of the realm of possibilities given how much work nUI has to do... it sounds a little high to me, but I wouldn't be freaked out about it (though I would sure be looking to improve it -- and always am)
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WoWInterface » Featured Projects » nUI, MozzFullWorldMap and PartySpotter » Support » nUI: Technical Support » very low frame rates in raids

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