Quantcast Letter to Blizzard - December 5th - WoWInterface
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12-16-13, 06:02 AM   #1
spiel2001
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Letter to Blizzard - December 5th

What follows is a letter I sent to Blizzard on December 5th regarding the status of nUI.

Tom... Thanks for the email.

I am not distributing it only to paying users. There are several ways that folks can still get the add-on for free.

1) they can be referred by another nUI user that I trust

2) they can send me an email and explain how they're doing something, anything, to be a helpful member of the community or to show their support of the time, effort and resources that go into maintaining and supporting nUI.

3) they can download it from Curse or WoWI and make whatever modifications they need to make to it to keep it running

There's a very large number of people who I have granted access to who have never paid a penny, and I will continue to do so. But when some asshat sends me an email telling me it's "against the law" for me not to give him the add-on and answer his email questions (for free), while he hurls epithets and insults at me, he can kiss my ass.

For that matter, anyone who makes an ass of himself to me, or to any other member of the community, is immediately banned. Aside from that, there's no other requirement other than to be respectful and make at least some sort of effort to show some appreciation.

Now. If it's Blizzard's position that I have to provide free distribution and free technical support to every paying and non-paying WoW player, regardless of how they treat me, then Blizzard and I do have a problem. For that matter, if Blizzard's position is that add-on authors have zero say in who can and can't use the software they produce, we have a problem.

That's the only thing I'm out to do here: block the people who treat me, and/or the other users, like crap from having access to the benefits of my work. I'm sick of busting my ass, for free, for people who treat me like crap. At least you guys (and Blizzard) get PAID to take that crap from the users.

So... If I'm not allowed to control who uses the code I wrote in any way, shape or form and that Blizzard requires me to give anyone and everyone completely unfettered access to my code and my support, then yes we have a problem.

But, if that's the case, then Blizzard's rule is not that authors can't have pay only versions of their software, it's that authors have no control whatsoever over their software and that they have no right to require ANYTHING of those who use it.

So. Is that the case?

K. Scott Piel
Author of nUI
http://www.nUIaddon.com


which was in response to this e-mailI received from Blizzard...

Hey Scott,

Sorry to hear about the abusive email’s you have received. People plus anonymity can really suck!

I completely understand that you do not want to submit yourself to that kind of environment. As you know, a lot of vitriol is also spewed in WoW’s direction, and it’s hard not to take that personally. There are many times I have to pull out of the forums and just avoid reading them.

If you only want to receive feedback and reports from paying users, I fully support you in that. However, you cannot just distribute your addon to paying users. I hope you understand that this is a position Blizzard needs to take.

Let me know if you want to talk about it.

<sender contact info redacted>
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What people don't get is that I am, ultimately, an artist at heart.
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Official nUI Web Site: http://www.nUIaddon.com
Official nUI Support Forum: http://forums.nUIaddon.com
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12-16-13, 08:24 AM   #2
Vlad
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Just an idea to avoid receiving "spam" from old nUI users;
why not lock the comment sections on wowui/curse and let anyone download the addon, but, add a link to your forums where discussions, issue reports, e.g. can take place.
There you have control who posts, yet the download is public so Blizzard won't have problems with that.

The only issue is you would need to do something about your private e-mail that is now publicly known, as if someone really wants to send you something it would be your e-mail, or even PM boxes on wowui/curse. Oh boy, it isn't easy to block people from contacting you... :/
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12-16-13, 09:36 AM   #3
Kkthnx
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Honestly the idea that you are trying to get people to pay for your addon is sickening. We already pay 15 bucks a month to play the game. Its like we have to pay to use the bathroom but we already pay for our house payments... Makes no sense and sounds greedy. You do not have to put up with anyone at all, there are ways around all that.

You should be the better man and just do what you love. You are making everyone else suffer because you want to go against Blizzards rules (Which is dumb) and make people pay for the addon because you are mad or something? I am sad to see all this happen but I am not sad to see your stuff shut down from WOWI, simply because you are being selfish and broke the rules man.

I am not attacking you in anyway but, only giving you the truth. Sorry if you can not accept that. I know you have talent but going this way about it is wrong man. look at Tukui and ElvUI, you think they like having spam and so on? They are the 2 biggest UIs around yet they do fine with everything without charging people for the UIs. What makes you so different man? I am lost at words here.
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Last edited by Kkthnx : 12-16-13 at 09:46 AM.
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12-16-13, 10:05 AM   #4
spiel2001
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Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
We already pay 15 bucks a month to play the game
Not to me you don't. You pay that to Blizzard, who does not share it with me.

At the risk of using one bad analogy to argue the other, do you feel the same way about paying the gas station for the gas to put in your car that you already paid for?

Do me a favor... call your boss up and tell him that you're just going to do what you love and you really don't need to be compensated for the time and effort you put into it. Be the better man.

And why the hell does everyone keep saying that I am making people pay for the addon when I keep saying over and over again that there are several ways to get it for free? Not to mention that I uploaded updates both to WoWI and Curse not two days ago?
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What people don't get is that I am, ultimately, an artist at heart.
My brush has two colors, 1 and 0, and my canvas is made of silicon.



Official nUI Web Site: http://www.nUIaddon.com
Official nUI Support Forum: http://forums.nUIaddon.com
My day job: http://www.presidio.com/
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12-16-13, 10:17 AM   #5
Kkthnx
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Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
Not to me you don't. You pay that to Blizzard, who does not share it with me.

At the risk of using one bad analogy to argue the other, do you feel the same way about paying the gas station for the gas to put in your car that you already paid for?

Do me a favor... call your boss up and tell him that you're just going to do what you love and you really don't need to be compensated for the time and effort you put into it. Be the better man.

And why the hell does everyone keep saying that I am making people pay for the addon when I keep saying over and over again that there are several ways to get it for free? Not to mention that I uploaded updates both to WoWI and Curse not two days ago?
Your 4 ways, state donation to obtain the UI. That is paying. Should I go over your 4 ways? All 4 ways require some sort of payment.

Blizzard not sharing with you? LMAO. This right here. Come on man pure greediness man. If you wanna be paid to code, this is not the place to (try) that. You doing what your doing will get you in the wrong hands with blizzard. Just follow the rules. WOWI is not shutting you down for no reason.
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Last edited by Kkthnx : 12-16-13 at 10:20 AM.
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12-16-13, 10:37 AM   #6
spiel2001
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No... all four ways do not require payment. Unless you consider writing an e-mail to be payment or asking a friend who told you about nUI to speak up for you not being a jerk isn't an option.

~rolleyes~
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What people don't get is that I am, ultimately, an artist at heart.
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12-16-13, 10:48 AM   #7
Marthisdil
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Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Your 4 ways, state donation to obtain the UI. That is paying. Should I go over your 4 ways? All 4 ways require some sort of payment.

Blizzard not sharing with you? LMAO. This right here. Come on man pure greediness man. If you wanna be paid to code, this is not the place to (try) that. You doing what your doing will get you in the wrong hands with blizzard. Just follow the rules. WOWI is not shutting you down for no reason.
Apparently you don't know how to read on the ways people can get it.

Yes, they can donate and get access.

They can also have someone vouch for them.

Or sending Scott an email asking for access.

All I can say to the people who are being dicks to Scott - you don't deserve the time and effort that the addon authors put into the game. Don't like how something works? Be nice and suggest stuff. fix it yourself. Find an alternative.

being a dick just gets you what you deserve.
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12-16-13, 11:15 AM   #8
whooter
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Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Honestly the idea that you are trying to get people to pay for your addon is sickening. We already pay 15 bucks a month to play the game. Its like we have to pay to use the bathroom but we already pay for our house payments... Makes no sense and sounds greedy. You do not have to put up with anyone at all, there are ways around all that.

You should be the better man and just do what you love. You are making everyone else suffer because you want to go against Blizzards rules (Which is dumb) and make people pay for the addon because you are mad or something? I am sad to see all this happen but I am not sad to see your stuff shut down from WOWI, simply because you are being selfish and broke the rules man.

I am not attacking you in anyway but, only giving you the truth. Sorry if you can not accept that. I know you have talent but going this way about it is wrong man. look at Tukui and ElvUI, you think they like having spam and so on? They are the 2 biggest UIs around yet they do fine with everything without charging people for the UIs. What makes you so different man? I am lost at words here.
Never has an avatar been so completely appropriate.
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12-16-13, 11:17 AM   #9
Seer
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2 easy ways to end this I suppose.

Stop putting out updates to nUI (please dont, I'm on my aging knees here in 10 dollar pants).

Or as Vlad suggested, just put up a version and lock comments. Want support, be in the inner circle, any bugs found by the innercircle will eventually get published anyway, just might take a bit longer. There are other addons authors that kinda do that. Latest version on their site, and updates a few weeks behind on other sites.

As a side note, I understand why Blizz send that mail. They may not be fully aware of all options, and not doing anything may send out the wrong signal that paid addons only are ok by them (Not saying nUI is paid only, just that it may look like it is to some. Communication was never humanity's strong point)
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Last edited by Seer : 12-16-13 at 11:22 AM.
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12-16-13, 11:19 AM   #10
coxchris
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Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Your 4 ways, state donation to obtain the UI. That is paying. Should I go over your 4 ways? All 4 ways require some sort of payment.

Blizzard not sharing with you? LMAO. This right here. Come on man pure greediness man. If you wanna be paid to code, this is not the place to (try) that. You doing what your doing will get you in the wrong hands with blizzard. Just follow the rules. WOWI is not shutting you down for no reason.
Donating isn't paying its a donation to the author to provide the service (if people chose to). Carbonite Addon use to be a pay add on for a subscription but that was handled by blizzard they release it to free. That against their policy.

Donating is the option to provide some payment for the author that isn't against Blizzard and anyone can do it. People chose to donate you don't have to donate

I have to defend the author for doing this because its takes alot of time and effort to put out the necessary coding to make it work and getting feedback from people who "spamming his inbox" makes the author feel unconformable to do this.
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12-16-13, 11:19 AM   #11
amp
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Question

Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Honestly the idea that you are trying to get people to pay for your addon is sickening. We already pay 15 bucks a month to play the game. Its like we have to pay to use the bathroom but we already pay for our house payments... Makes no sense and sounds greedy. You do not have to put up with anyone at all, there are ways around all that.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.

Whew. Okay.

No, man. It's like paying for someone to go to the store, buy christmas lights and decorations, AND take the time to put them all up around your house. Strictly speaking, you don't NEED those lights but damn do you want them! It's not greedy. It's compensation for work. Not even adequate compensation, either. It's like tipping the christmas-light-hanging guy $10 for $200 worth of lights, not even including all the time he spent.

While I don't disagree with what he's done, I will, however, agree that he could look into ways of shutting down the ...well, whiners like you. Someone already suggested locking down the forums and that sounds like a decent idea.

Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
You should be the better man and just do what you love. You are making everyone else suffer because you want to go against Blizzards rules (Which is dumb) and make people pay for the addon because you are mad or something? I am sad to see all this happen but I am not sad to see your stuff shut down from WOWI, simply because you are being selfish and broke the rules man.
HahahaHAhahdHAcough

Sorry...I'm kind of at a loss for words at this..."be the better man" hahaha He IS being the better man by dealing with little ****s like you. I'd guess that the people that legitimately want to use/continue using the software will have no issue getting access to it for free. The only people to 'suffer' are the ones that expect..well, anything. The ones that feel entitled to software, to which, they contributed nothing.

Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
I am not attacking you in anyway but, only giving you the truth. Sorry if you can not accept that. I know you have talent but going this way about it is wrong man. look at Tukui and ElvUI, you think they like having spam and so on? They are the 2 biggest UIs around yet they do fine with everything without charging people for the UIs. What makes you so different man? I am lost at words here.
For someone not attacking him, you use a lot of fightin' words. I would guess nUI is different than Tukui and ElvUI because of the number of developers. I may be totally wrong here (feel free to correct me if I am), but it was my understanding that more than one person develops each of those UIs. That's a pretty huge difference.

Also, how do you know they aren't having issues? Are you intimately involved with the developers of those UIs that you know their financial situation?

But I digress, as that's not the point. nUI is still available for free, so... I don't understand the problem.
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12-16-13, 11:23 AM   #12
spiel2001
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Originally Posted by Seer View Post
Stop putting out updates to nUI (please dont, I'm on my aging knees here in 10 dollar pants)
This is not something I can ever see myself doing Seer. I will always continue to support people such as yourself who have been valuable members of the nUI community for as long as I can remember.
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12-16-13, 11:31 AM   #13
L3pr3k4n
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The problem with some people Today is that they feel they DESERVE something for nothing. Others are just plain behind the times charging monthly fees to play. In the end, both types either get left behind or fail miserably. I commend you on your dedication to the community. By the way, I have NEVER paid for nUI and have been a happy user for several years now.
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12-16-13, 11:39 AM   #14
unbound
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Just wow...

I'm blown away by the sense of privilege some people seem to have here.

You have to pay your $15/month to Blizzard to play the game. That is a contract between you and Blizzard for rights to access the game. There is no other way to play the game, but you are fully capable of playing the game with no extras whatsoever.

You can choose to put in add-ons to the game to enhance your play. This is entirely optional. You do not need these add-ons to play the game successfully.

Some authors create rather minor add-ons for the fun or to create something they are interested in and offer it to all with no real concerns.

Some authors spend considerable time on much more complex add-ons. This author has asked for some degree of support for his considerable efforts. That support can take shape in multiple ways that don't have anything to do with money. If you choose to give him some money, he isn't asking for much at all.

The problem is not with the author here. The problem is with Blizzard's greed (they are strongly benefiting from the efforts of add-on authors with no benefits being provided to the said authors), and with the people here who seem to think they should get anything and everything they want for no effort on their part whatsoever...the very definition of spoiled brats.
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12-16-13, 11:41 AM   #15
Kkthnx
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Glad your UI is being shut down its impossible for you people to see the issue here.
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12-16-13, 11:50 AM   #16
Fatäl
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Entitlement – Really makes me sick…

It never ceases to amaze me that some (not all) but some folks feel that they are entitled to have access to others hard efforts for ummm well FREE. I am and would like to continue my use of nUI, I have to admit that I don’t post much on the forums, but I do from time to time make a voluntary donation at the website.

I look at it this way, I go to work each day I put forth an effort that is in accordance to my compensation. Mr. Piel goes to work every day and I am going to assume that he is compensated accordingly. Then Mr. Piel takes time away from his family and friend’s - time that he could be kicking back drinking a beverage of choice in an attempt to make MY gaming experience better. Why you ask? I really don’t know other than he actually cares about the game and the community.

I am truly disgusted by the constant – you should do this for me for nothing – I am entitled to your hard work for nothing – you should work for me for free – Don’t stop but I don’t want to reward you either. For some of the ass hats out there you would be surprised how far a simple “Thank you for your help you have made my game better!” would go. Trust me that in and of itself is a donation, if nothing more than to let him know his efforts are appreciated. I don’t have any issue with donating some $$$ every once in a while and Mr. Piel has never ask that I donate anything. I guess it is my moral compass that tells me it’s the correct thing to do.

Scott I love your UI I have used it for years, but at this point if you pulled the plug I would completely understand and would still thank you for the years of enjoyment nUI has added to my in game experience.

Thanks again
Fatal
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12-16-13, 11:52 AM   #17
Seer
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@Kkthnx

What issue? That nUI is available free of charge? Ye, big issue indeed.

Support if you find a bug may get a bit harder, but still not impossible. Just be a nice guy is enough. But I guess you failed to read that.

2) they can send me an email and explain how they're doing something, anything, to be a helpful member of the community or to show their support of the time, effort and resources that go into
maintaining and supporting nUI.


A good bug report and the will to help fix said bug, knowing Spiel, is probably enough to be considered helpfull.

Offcourse, a mail demanding a fix is easily deleted.
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Last edited by Seer : 12-16-13 at 11:57 AM.
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12-16-13, 11:54 AM   #18
richwarf
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I am not currently active WoW player, but I keeping my eye (well ears) open to changes happening to the game. I current do not have much time to sink into a game

But I can see where both of you (spiel2001 and Blizzard) are coming from.

source: Blizzard Addon Policy
1) Add-ons must be free of charge.
All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on
Blizzard really what's all add-ons to be 'freely accessible' to all WoW players. However, they currently have it saying 'free'.

nUI follows the 'free' but not 'freely accessible'. Since you can make a small one off (?) donation to get faster access. I would send a e-mail to get them to define which one of the above they really mean.

Since it will still be free (to my understanding)

However, this 'limiting' of users might be classed as 'premium', so this is where Blizzard might be opbjecting to the latest change.

I just hope it does not get to the eighth point of the post.
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12-16-13, 12:01 PM   #19
Seer
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Originally Posted by richwarf View Post
However, this 'limiting' of users might be classed as 'premium', so this is where Blizzard might be opbjecting to the latest change.
Yea, I guess that's a fair point.

But then, registering to the nUI site to get "premium" (not paying) support should be ok. And gives Spiel the option to boot (bleeps) from his site.
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12-16-13, 12:07 PM   #20
Necrosir
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Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Glad your UI is being shut down its impossible for you people to see the issue here.
I believe it's yourself that cannot see the issue, Spiel2001 has explained many times in forums and emails why he was doing it. but from what i can see he still provides nUI for free on curse. I have personal been a supporter nUI for few years and have diecided to make a donation for premium verison. If people want to make a donation for a service why can't they.
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WoWInterface » Featured Projects » nUI, MozzFullWorldMap and PartySpotter » General » nUI: Community Chat » Letter to Blizzard - December 5th

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