WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

[Zyonin]

Originally Posted by Seerah Not to mention that their changing that option (hiding error messages in-game) combined with changing Interface numbers in the TOC (so nothing shows as out of date), and manually changing code in addons when updated through WM (to cover up errors, not necessarily fix them - it's not their place to fix it anyway) makes users think that WM is always updating their addons flawlessly. Instead, though, it just covers things up and gives users a false sense of security. When a hidden error causes problems, a user doesn't know why and they cry to the authors or the community or their guild, or just think that an author codes crap addons. edit: but all of this stuff has been said before...

It's kind of like slapping some duct tape, Bond-o and Krylon over the huge rusty hole in your car's body. Yah, you don't see the hole, however it still there. Don't laugh, I have seen people do this in my younger days working in a car repair shop. It always good for some laughs around the coffee machine.

[us2006027321]

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User I'm angry-face!!

Originally Posted by Compassionate People We're sorry.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User Why are you so mean?!

Originally Posted by Confused People We aren't really all that mean.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User Yes, you are!

Originally Posted by Morbidly Curious People What'd we do that's so mean?

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User You inconvenienced me!

Originally Posted by Industrious People We have a solution.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User I don't like your stupid solution!

Originally Posted by Insulted People Well, there's not a lot we can do for you then.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User Do something better for me! I'm entitled to it!!

Originally Posted by Irritated People No. See reason. WM did terrible things.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User Prove it!

Originally Posted by Intelligent People Okay, here's our proof.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User I reject your reality and substitute one of my own!

Originally Posted by Amazed People Well, we don't know what else to tell you.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User That's because you're wrong!

Originally Posted by Diplomatic People I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, then.

Originally Posted by Angsty WM User NOU! I want attention!

Originally Posted by Frustrated People Please, go away.

Really, guys, this thread is dead, and there's nowhere else it could possibly go. If you're here as a WM user, and you're willing to see reason, read this thread very carefully. It's here for you if you want it. If you're a WoWI/Curse supporter, please don't feed the trolls. Dead horse is dead, and obvious trolls are obvious.

[Bruners]

silentdabeast:

Where can i upload my AddOns to this fine site you are speaking of?

[Bluspacecow]

Originally Posted by Tekkub http://forums.norganna.org/discussio...raffic/#Item_0

Originally Posted by Nechckn;[url http://forums.norganna.org/discussion/7714/excessive-autoupdater-traffic/#Item_0][/url] Due some changes made to one auto-updater, a weeks ago, we have been penalized by our ISP close to $450 dollars. Were this same traffic to continue at its current rate, we would be using about 80GB of bandwidth per day, with a fee of roughly $1200 - that is over and above our usual hosting fees.

Originally Posted by Seerah "Unlimited bandwidth" doesn't *really* mean "UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH!!!" If you used as much as WoWI or Curse use, they'd limit you fast.

Only $450 ? A maximum of Just 80 GB/day ?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...3&pageNo=8#155

Curse were doing between 1.3 to 1.8 Terabytes per hour on patch day.

That's an 1331 to 1843 GB of data per hour (assuming my math is correct)

So how much data is that in money terms ?

http://apt.rikers.org/%23curseforge/20081015.html.gz

About $75,000 worth.

That's nothing to sneeze at. We're talking industrial strength Google - level of traffic , mostly used in one day.

I doubt that you'll get an normal every day run of the mill ISP to cover that kind of traffic. You might possibly get a polite "eh No" instead.

[Bluspacecow]

Originally Posted by Seerah Not to mention that their changing that option (hiding error messages in-game) combined with changing Interface numbers in the TOC (so nothing shows as out of date),

/offtopic

Bad Seerah. Your wall of text critted me for 99999999 X_X . C'mon people Paragraphs have a purpose. Use them

/ontopic

Why is editing TOCs a seriously bad idea ?

TOC Numbers are an addon authors little way of letting the wow client know that :

(a) They have reviewed their addons in light of the UI change brought in the latest patch
(b) They have if necessary updated their addons to work with the current patch
(c) They can confirm their addons will work with the latest patch

If a user has any problems with their addons then an important diagnostic step is to disable the addons they know have not been updated for the new UI changes in the new patch.

This is what the "Load Out of Date addons" checkbox is for.

You have problems then you go turn that off. All addons *not* properly updated for the new UI changes get turned off. You then load the game and check for that problem again. It's a checksum system that's meant to assist you in tracking down a UI error.

As you can see from the reasons I've listed above it's not something that the average user should be changing at all - you're not the addon author so you can't verify that it's been updated specifically with the new UI changes in mind.

Changing it yourself in a mass update system is just inviting trouble. You're making the whole TOC number/Load out of date addons system pointless. The only exception I can see is those people with sufficient technical knowledge and/or patience to verify that the UI changes won't effect the workings of the addon itself.

[silentdabeast]

Originally Posted by Lykofos It's kind of like slapping some duct tape, Bond-o and Krylon over the huge rusty hole in your car's body. Yah, you don't see the hole, however it still there. Don't laugh, I have seen people do this in my younger days working in a car repair shop. It always good for some laughs around the coffee machine.

Um...I'm from Minnesota and we take our duct-tape very seriously. As far as the rust holes - duct tape WORKS thank you very much!

[silentdabeast]

You know what I wish? I wish Blizz REQUIRED addon version numbers to be standardized. Like, if a wowpatch is version 3.1.3, then the addons should reflect that in their version no.

When I used to manually look for addons, this was my biggest disappointment. Like, Lightheaded, if I'm not mistake, uses some strange ".0045a" version - it's fine for the authors, but it's confusing for everyone else. Why not make it something like 313a or something? I mean...

But, to be fair, MOST software addons/plugins use odd version numbers that don't correspond to the software they're modding. If I was the god of all software, I would send ppl to hell for this!

[silentdabeast]

By the way, I have re-installed minion, and I will continue to use it, however I have put a post it note over the place where the ad shows up. I give minion the same grade now as I do WM (as far as the UI is concerned). with regard to the policies...let's just say that I have not received a response from WM about my request for info sharing.

IF you go to WowMatrix's "parent" company, http://www.acreon.com/, you'll find that there is nothing there anymore. I could have sworn that there was information on their page before. Strange...

[Zyonin]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast Um...I'm from Minnesota and we take our duct-tape very seriously. As far as the rust holes - duct tape WORKS thank you very much!

He he, I am from Montana, that is why I know about the duct tape/bond-o "repairs". Its amazing how fast some GM products can rust out...

Regarding WM's parent company or the company responsible for the creation of WM, Acreon. I went looking for info on Acreon a couple of months ago. Guess what? Nada, nothing. Its like they are stealthed or something as there is no info other than one blog post about this outfit. Whenever I see something like that, big red flags go up and the sirens start blaring.

[Kaelten]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast Have you not read on WM's FAQ page that they said the EXACT SAME THING? They said that THEY tried to reach out to WowI and got ignored, and curse tried to buy them out! do you see??? two different and completely opposing stories here! Personally, we've been letting the US government get by with crap like this for years, and now we want the TRUTH. Well that's all I'm asking for...objective truth...I want to know what REALLY went on, not based on someones spin....I want 0 spin, 0 lens...I want facts. Both stores can't be true because if they were, this world would be on the verge of imploding on itself... A cannot say that story B is the true story while at the same time say that C is a liar, while C, at the same time is saying that A is the liar because story D is the truth...Either A or C is lying....You cannot have two totally different objective truths regarding a single story.

I've never stated that we didn't make them an offer. We contacted them, and asked them some questions, how much time they put into it etc. We offered them a fair price based on those answers. They countered with a ridiculous sum.

They did proceed to offer us a payoff to continue to leech our bandwidth. It a) is not ethical for us to do so, and and questionable legality since we don't own the content and b) was not enough money to cover even a fraction of the extra costs incurred us.

I've never stated anything other that absolute facts in relation to this issue. I've gotten a lot more quiet because a) I don't want to lose my temper again either and b) people are only going to believe what they'll believe.

[Kaelten]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast You want to know why? Because I have 2 websites with unlimited bandwidth, unlimited storage space, 2 mysql databases, 1000 emails, and a few other perks, for less than 100 bucks a year....that's why. If you don't believe me on that one, I'll give you the link to their packages! And I KNOW that you could host this site with the addons on their servers.

The way unlimited bandwidth works is they give you unlimited access on a pipe, which can be as small as a few hundred Kb/s.

This is fine for smaller sites.

On Curse we currently have a maximum capacity of 4Gb/s and are looking to expand.

On WowAce 2 or 3 hosts ago, I had 'unlimited bandwidth' on a dedicated server. It was a 1mbit pipe. A little math later.... 1024 bits / 8 bits-in-a-byte * 60 seconds * 60 mins * 24 hours = 11,059,200 bytes/day / 1024 / 1024 = 10.55 GB/day * 30 days = 316.40 GB/month.

That's unlimited bandwidth, and that server cost me $85/month. My next server was on a 100mbit pipe, but my $300/month only covered me up to 10mbit/s @ 95th percentile. So patch days cost > $1k, and that was for a fraction of the bandwidth a site like wowi or curse uses.

And the bigger the pipes from there the more complicated billing gets. Commits for sustained usage, overages for spikes, etc.

I hope that my explanation of 'unlimited' bandwidth makes sense. I'd be happy to help explain more if you have any questions.

[Torhal]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast Just wanted to say that the user on wowace named "Torhal" need a hair cut...back to my reading...

Which one? I have quite a few...

[Torhal]

Originally Posted by Seerah *psst* /me points at Tekkub's turquoise name That's why you don't see ads

I didn't want to say anything...see how long it took him to realize...

[Tekkub]

Originally Posted by silentdabeast By the way, I have re-installed minion, and I will continue to use it, however I have put a post it note over the place where the ad shows up. I give minion the same grade now as I do WM (as far as the UI is concerned). with regard to the policies...let's just say that I have not received a response from WM about my request for info sharing. IF you go to WowMatrix's "parent" company, http://www.acreon.com/, you'll find that there is nothing there anymore. I could have sworn that there was information on their page before. Strange...

You know it's really kinda funny, this is exactly the same thing that happened with that us<random numbers> guy. Now all he does is try to get in my pants.

As for the "company" site disappearing... I don't think anyone here is surprised. If it were legitimate, they would be trying to get their site back up as fast as they could.

Originally Posted by Torhal I didn't want to say anything...see how long it took him to realize...

Seriously, I thought all authors got ad-free. Now I just know I'm more specialer. :P

[us2006027321]

Originally Posted by Tekkub You know it's really kinda funny, this is exactly the same thing that happened with that us<random numbers> guy. Now all he does is try to get in my pants.

Someone on the site was pm'ing me their skepticism about my attempts to communicate with WM and the fact that they... expressed concern about any information I would share. I feel vindicated knowing I'm not the only person to whom they did something of that caliber. It's not the same, but it's close enough.

As for hitting on you with wild abandon, I only do it b/c you let me. If I need to stop I can, but I should think you like the ego boost. I know I'd like a boost... Giggidy!!

[Estoppel]

Addons development has been mainly minor league stuff so far, but there are some stirrings that professional developers may end up in the mix. Especially with popcap taking an interest in addons. My guess is that the next generation of MMOs will lock up addon development under a licensed API. WoW has its hands tied right now with the large subscriber base and multitude of existing addons, but I doubt Blizzard will make that mistake again.

[Estoppel]

Originally Posted by us2006027321 Someone on the site was pm'ing me their skepticism about my attempts to communicate with WM and the fact that they... expressed concern about any information I would share. I feel vindicated knowing I'm not the only person to whom they did something of that caliber. It's not the same, but it's close enough. As for hitting on you with wild abandon, I only do it b/c you let me. If I need to stop I can, but I should think you like the ego boost. I know I'd like a boost... Giggidy!!

It destroys your credibility to hint at information you have and cannot disclose. Both of you.

[Petrah]

He (us2006027321) has nothing to gain by lying, and nothing to gain by telling the truth. However, I personally have no issue with giving him the benefit of the doubt and will continue to do so until he gives me a valid reason not to.

[Zyonin]

Originally Posted by Silenia He (us2006027321) has nothing to gain by lying, and nothing to gain by telling the truth. However, I personally have no issue with giving him the benefit of the doubt and will continue to do so until he gives me a valid reason not to.

Likely us200627321 likely has a "little" issue standing between him and us regarding the information he has, a lawyer from WM/Acreon. While WM/Acreon may not prevail in any civil case, the legal fees that us200627321 would have to pay to some lawyer in order to defend himself would be enough to dissuade most people from opening their mouths particularly in this age of the Lawyer Happy Hunting Grounds.

[Tuhljin]

Originally Posted by Estoppel Addons development has been mainly minor league stuff so far, but there are some stirrings that professional developers may end up in the mix. Especially with popcap taking an interest in addons. My guess is that the next generation of MMOs will lock up addon development under a licensed API. WoW has its hands tied right now with the large subscriber base and multitude of existing addons, but I doubt Blizzard will make that mistake again.

The mistake here is that you are making the assumption that Blizzard thinks it's a "mistake" that addon sites like WoWI and Curse are out there doing what they're doing and/or that casual addon authors support such sites.

Originally Posted by Silenia He (us2006027321) has nothing to gain by lying, and nothing to gain by telling the truth.

Not only that, but he came in here at first from the WM-user point-of-view, and silentdabeast has certainly been very much on WM's side and only recently has shown signs of opening up to the other side (I'd say the more logical, truthful, and fact-supported side).