Concerned Subscriptionist.

[Unbelievable]

The thing is, Blizzard's new policy could have completely killed off Carbonite. Thankfully it hasn't *touch wood*

Paying for a mod is a bit like buying a plant from a garden centre. If you get the plant home and it dies a few months later, tough: The soil / light conditions (aka wow policy and API) aren't within the control of the garden centre (aka Carbonite team). No guarentees implied or implicitly stated.

While Carbonite may or may not be flourishing quite as well as before, it's hardly a withering wreck either. It's still the best mod for WoW by far. And still the only mod I consider inextricably tied to my enjoyment of the game (ie. If Carbonite dies, my WoW subs die with it - are you listening Blizzard?!).

TBH blame Blizzard for making such a stupid policy. You pay for their service too, and they (Blizzard) are using your money to muck about with other folks (addon authors) distribution rights of non-derivative works, with potentially far reaching results.

I hope Carbonite support continues regardless.

Edit: Altered analogy slightly - changes in italics

[Unbelievable]

Originally Posted by Nestria Not to mention that for some reason, since the patch my large map has been acting like a huge mini map. It shows specific ground detail instead of the colored standard map that you would see in the normal blizzard map. This also messes with the map overlays for the location of quest components. If I zoom out on the map, it goes back to the other map style, but I have no idea why it's started doing this or how to make it stop and it's very annoying to have to zoom out every time I open the map to make it look normal again.

It's working fine here. But try the following:-

Switch off quest tracking (the magenta button). Zoom the map to desired zoom. Right click map. Save default zoom option from the menu. Re-enable quest tracking.

If that doesn't fix it, right click the map and play with "details at scale" and the top slider which specifies how far the map will autozoom out. It's probably worth noting the current scale values down before you start tinkering with them.

Without WoW open I can't give you more precise instructions, but I'm sure you'll manage

[carboniteaddon]

Originally Posted by Nestria However, the quality of carbonite has already dropped off very badly since the 3.11 release. That update was supposed to add the new quests for the argent tournament, but it doesn't actually include all the quests, only the first set that you get. My carbonite doesn't give information for any of the champion quests... Not that they are really that hard to find, but it's still incomplete.

True, 3.11 had basically the first half of the new quests, which were the ones we had done and had submitted data on. We didn't have much data for the second half until the time 3.12 was released.

Originally Posted by Nestria Not to mention that for some reason, since the patch my large map has been acting like a huge mini map. It shows specific ground detail instead of the colored standard map that you would see in the normal blizzard map. This also messes with the map overlays for the location of quest components. If I zoom out on the map, it goes back to the other map style, but I have no idea why it's started doing this or how to make it stop and it's very annoying to have to zoom out every time I open the map to make it look normal again.

That was an intentional settings change, not anything to do with quality. The Scale... submenu of the main Carb map menu had the Details At Scale default changed to 2 instead of 4 and we reapplied some map defaults to get everyone's settings consistent. Quest locations are not effected by that setting.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Pyrophoric You are not paying to access the addon, you are paying to access the site. However, it just so happens that you cannot get carb anywhere else and you cant download it from the official site unless you have an account. As I said, people would in no way be paying for the addon. They would be paying for the bandwidth used to download it and site maintenance. If someone wanted to share the addon with a friend, there is nothing stopping them. The only catch is you dont want it actually HOSTED on another site. Honestly, I don't really have much of a problem with the plugin right now. Yeah, I would like the quests to really be cleaned up and have noticed minor bugs but nothing that is actually breaking the whole thing. I have noticed that it isn't being updated as often but not sure if thats a good thing or a bad. But it is fact that it hasn't been updated as often. Really, I was just responding to the post saying that there isnt as much time to devote to the addon. If you feel that is going to cause it to suffer in any way or if it already has, open it up so people can contribute before it starts to fall apart.

Did you even use Carbonite 6 months ago?

This was exactly what they did. Every downloaded was keyed to your subscription. Your subscription was tied to your ability to download a working version. It was connected to one key character.

They are not allowed to do this anymore per the add-on policy.

Have you posted the bugs you are aware of on the correct forum? They are not going to be fixed unless YOU do this.

[eqsanctum]

mmm Carbonite. I love this addon. It mitigates the need for a bunch of crapola stirring within my addon folder. The developers of the addon listen to what I say, they weigh what I say, and if it works they use what I say.

Ahhhh warcraft a lovely game that lets me use carbonite... you get the picture.

Ahh ignore button, perfect for whiners who cant take the time to properly support the carbonite developers, IE: press bug submit in the right forum not the general topic crap, submitting a proper bug report includes what ya've done to try and fix it how it occurred etc etc etc.

Now Carbonite developers. Thank you for the spare time you now have. Thank you for continuing to develop the addon despite the set back in pay received from Carbon Solutions. Thank you answering our questions. Thank you taking the time to sift through the mountainous junk filled posts to further the addon.

WTB Moderator to move posts where they belong. <--- I'd volunteer by the way.

[Ketz]

Originally Posted by Unbelievable Paying for a mod is a bit like buying a plant from a garden centre. If you get the plant home and it dies a few months later, tough: The soil / light conditions (aka wow policy and API) aren't within the control of the garden centre (aka Carbonite team). No guarentees implied or implicitly stated.

This is a flawed analogy. Trying to use your analogy a more correct view would be, prior to the blizzard policy change, I leased the plant for a year (Carbonite) and was guaranteed service on that plant for the year by a gardener (Carbonite Team). After the policy change, the gardener can no longer lease plants with gardening service attached however they are required to service the existing plants already leased under the old contracts that were entered into in good faith by the purchaser and the seller.

Now we are all rational people here. We cant expect these guys to go bankrupt and ruin there lives and possibly there families lives over this. While the income under the subscription service was better than the current donations, I cant imagine their entire living was made off it. Even less so now.

At the same time many of us paid for a service that some feel they are no longer receiving, and its true there was about a month of really spotty updates. There were times I was sure that Carbonite would fold up and R.I.P. I was positive that my subscription would be in essence "lost".

The key here is compromise. The Carbonite team didnt fold up shop they kept the doors opened, and cut costs by shutting down the premium server. They have real lives and we shouldnt expect them to drive themselves into the ground fulfilling contracts that are simply no longer able to. They have made updates as they can and they also made sure the prior subscribers and new donaters had a place for VIP status to have there voices heard "more" and to receive special attention to their requests and needs. Does anyone really have huge problems with this addon?

My original subscription was 15.00 a year (1.25 a month) and in my opinion was a great deal and I would have payed double that knowing what I know now about this excellent product. I will continue to donate on a yearly basis to the developers to help encourage them to continue. If everyone did that there wouldnt have been a drop off in the Teams income and they wouldnt have had to trim back the way they did. The sad ones here are the ones leaching the product and complaining about it in the forums below.

Were in good hands here.

[Pyrophoric]

Edit:

Eh, forget it. I just keep retyping what I have said over and over again for ignorant jerks.

All I can say is, I love Carb and hope it doesn't fall apart at some point down the road.

[Daxal]

Originally Posted by Pyrophoric Really, I was just responding to the post saying that there isnt as much time to devote to the addon. If you feel that is going to cause it to suffer in any way or if it already has, open it up so people can contribute before it starts to fall apart.

Totally agree, if you open the addon and make it open source maybe you wont earn as much much but it gives an option to very many people t help on the addon and make new features. Im not at addon author myself but i will gladly help on the webpage as i am a web designer.

Please open the source even for a trail for like 14 days let people help you and develop the addon.

[Taralom88]

Hmm.... what to say soo far....

Honestly, I've been a supporter of carbonite since before they had all the Burning Crusade quests updated, and i can honestly say it's been the single BEST add-on i've ever used, and the amount of updates that the author's took the time and effort to code for, is simply astounding. So thank you for that.

I was a little more than disappointed when i saw the new UI policy, and even more so when i realized that my favorite addon was going to be nerfed, if i could put it that way.

But i'm definitely happy to hear that the author's aren't entirely giving up on this, and i can't wait for future updates and what not

About what you guys were saying about making it open source, yeah, that would provide help for the author's but at the same time it just leaves way for someone to come in and take the code from it and pioneer an entirely new addon and essentially steal all of the effort that the author's put into Carb. And yeah, it sucks that it'll take a while for new versions to come out, but as has been said, this is far from being a flop, it's still thriving, so i say just deal with it and let the author's continue to hold on to the work that they created. Plus, this is no where near falling apart, the author's have just had a run of bad luck right now, and i'm sure things will be up and running in no time

Also, don't give them crap for following the new UI policy, and above everything else don't give them crap for not putting as much into this as they have. They are people! they aren't gods that can just live life without food and water, albeit, that's a major downer :P, but still, they need income just as all of you who are actually living outside of your parents houses' do. hopefully i'm talking to more than just the few who aren't leechers and actually care about the issue, but im sure that's just a shot in the dark.

i dont really know where i was going with this, but i wanna close with the statement that i love this addon thanks for keeping it alive for so long, and im more than anxious to see how far this continues.

[Sythalin]

Originally Posted by Unbelievable (ie. If Carbonite dies, my WoW subs die with it - are you listening Blizzard?!)

Honestly, if a single mod is the only thing keeping you playing then you really need to take a moment to stop finding excuses and just quit. I highly doubt Blizz will care.

Just make sure you take a screenshot of Carb before you do so that you can still look at, considering that's the only part of the game you seem to be enjoying.

[Unbelievable]

Originally Posted by ChaosInc Honestly, if a single mod is the only thing keeping you playing then you really need to take a moment to stop finding excuses and just quit. I highly doubt Blizz will care.

It is true: If I were to quit WoW that Blizzard simply wouldn't care. And I wouldn't care about their lack of caring either. I play games to have fun. While I can still find ways to have fun in WoW I'll continue to play it. The moment it stops being fun I'll stop playing and move onto something else.

I've already obtained pre-nerf Loremaster on my main character by doing the vast majority of quests the hard way (I.E. without Carbonite / QuestHelper / LightHeaded). At this point I should point out that I'm currently a bit of an altoholic. The thought of repeating quests on alts in the same slow, inefficient, labourous way doesn't seem much like fun to me (remember, I play WoW to have fun). Carbonite (and it's ilk) fix that problem for me. I can now run through zones completing quests without running over the same ground repeatedly, without alt-tabbing to find the more obscure objectives, without suffering the inevitable crashes caused by repeatedly alt-tabbing etc.

It seems that Blizzard have cottoned on to the short comings of it's current quest system, hence, quests mapping in the upcoming 3.2 patch. Probably inspired (in part) by Carbonite and QuestHelper.

Incidentally, when I made my last post on this thread (two months ago) the author of QuestHelper was still talking about ceasing development, so Carbonite seemed like it would be the only questing mod of it's type out there. Blizzard hadn't announced any plans to add quest information to maps either. So maybe I should revise my statement to "no carbonite-like quest mapping, no wow" now.

edit: That isn't to say that I'm not an ardent fan of Carbonite. I am and will remain so. My "no carbonite, no wow" post wasn't intended to chivvy the Carbonite team, but to show my support for their continued development of Carbonite (irrespective of frequency), while also showing my utter disdain for Blizzard's new mod dev policy.

Originally Posted by ChaosInc Just make sure you take a screenshot of Carb before you do so that you can still look at, considering that's the only part of the game you seem to be enjoying.

Ah, sardonic wit. I laughed so hard that my rib cage almost exploded.

[Jigain]

Originally Posted by Unbelievable It seems that Blizzard have cottoned on to the short comings of it's current quest system, hence, quests mapping in the upcoming 3.2 patch. Probably inspired (in part) by Carbonite and QuestHelper.

Of course. Just like they did the Wardrobe (Outfitter / ItemRack), Calendar (GroupCalendar), and built in threat meter (Omen / DTM). They simply take what's popular and integrate it. Usually not as well as the addons themselves, but for some, it's well enough.

[Sythalin]

Originally Posted by Jigain Of course. Just like they did the Wardrobe (Outfitter / ItemRack), Calendar (GroupCalendar), and built in threat meter (Omen / DTM). They simply take what's popular and integrate it. Usually not as well as the addons themselves, but for some, it's well enough.

Very true. I just recently ditched SCT for the default one, but still using Outfitter because it has more options. Comes down to preference.

As far as taking what's popular and "stealing" it (not legally, but materially), it's still the best method of adding things to the game. Honestly, can you think of a better way to obtain sound data of what features people want other than checking out favorite/dl counts of popular addons and without having filter through thousands of repeat threads and constant flamers?

I know I sure as hell can't.

[erosgost]

My wife and I subscribed to Carbonite last December and our "subscription" should last until this coming December, technically. Now with Blizzard's change (which I hate) I wonder how long our individual $15 subscription fee holds us for. I want to help to keep Carbonite running so I'm asking this of the developers ... what is a fair price to donate per download for each of us? That way we know we're helping but not paying too little (and we certainly can't afford to pay TOO much either). We want our donations to count toward further development (and to keep the developers stocked with Red Bulls) but we can't pay $20 or $50 for each download.

When this change first happened we deactivated Carbonite for fear it would become lostware and tried to play the game without it. I gotta say, we got about two weeks before reactivating this exceptional addon. I honestly don't know if I can play WoW without it.

Anyway, just 2 cents from 2 loyal fans.

And is it impossible to create a community site that offers forum, chat or other social networking mmo (not WoW specific ... that way Blizzard can't cry) and charge a membership fee to that akin to what you had before and just have the download available to members?

Thanks in advance to any advice here. WoW sucks without Carbonite!

[Vis]

Originally Posted by erosgost and charge a membership fee to that akin to what you had before and just have the download available to members?

Not possible by the Blizz rules unfortunately. Part of their wording said you couldn't charge for access to it.

As to the other question regarding donation's, I personally will be donating the same amount as the original 1 yr subscription cost per copy (pre Blizz rules) on the anniversary of my initial purchase. It seems right that way to me.

[carboniteaddon]

What Vis says seems reasonable to me, with the following modification.

If you are on welfare or laid off, then please keep your money and feed the kids. If Bill Gates is your dad or you won the Lotto, well that would be an entirely different story.

[Gator753]

After I´ve read the entire thread, I must say I really can´t understand the complains.
I´m also a former subscriber and even after the subscribtion "dropped", after the policy changes, i just can´t say that carbonite has lost on quality, either on support nor on features.

I just wanted to say to the Carbonite Team: You are doing a great job. Thanks for this really good add-on and keep going

[Rothie]

I don’t know about the rest of you, but honestly, Tiffany and I got tired of the seemingly constant updates lol. It was like a week didn’t go by and we got the “Update available” msg.

I was happy with the way the subs worked, and didn’t mind paying for the program, and will keep paying as I did, I just wish I remembered when my sub was going to expire lol, I think it was Dec, not sure, my memory is worse than a goldfishes.

I wouldn’t call myself a fangurl, but I do like Carbonite a lot. I’ve played WoW since beta, and know the drawbacks to a non-Carbonite WoW, and have no desire to play in in that mode going forward. So yea, if Carbonite stopped updating, I’d quit also, its just too annoying to play WoW without it.



Rothie, aka Ellania, Gilissa, Catlynn, Lilitor and a bunch more besides being known as Heather D

[thunndaar]

Originally Posted by Haavok While we may not be devoting as many hours to it as we did before, we are still working on it, fixing bugs, updating the database and working on new features. What exactly aren't you getting that you were before? As to your second point, we can not charge for the addon and paying for access to a site to download the addon is the same thing.

well regarding your last post [salary reduction, anticipating more money] , dont count your chickens before they're hatched.

also one things that concerns me is this 'we' stuff. there is only one person working on this, am i right? you do not have to use the term 'we' to appear bigger than what you are, i've seen this [and done this] in the past.

thanks for carbonite i really enjoy it!

[carboniteaddon]

Originally Posted by thunndaar also one things that concerns me is this 'we' stuff. there is only one person working on this, am i right? you do not have to use the term 'we' to appear bigger than what you are, i've seen this [and done this] in the past.

Carbon Based Creations, LLC is owned by 3 people, so when I say we, I mean the 3 of us. I work on the addon. Haavok works on the database and related tools. The third person does business stuff. We also had a part time forums guy back when we were selling subscriptions, but he was laid off.