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04-07-09, 10:21 PM   #1
Zexsi
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Possibility of SVN?

Now that the code base is opened up a bit, is there any chance of code contributions via SVN or something similar? Many SVN solutions provide for approval of code submissions, and some of my ideas regarding the UI/Config and integration with Ace3 are downright Seksi as hell :-P

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04-08-09, 08:45 AM   #2
merak69
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While possible, I doubt we'll see this in SVN anytime soon.

The code currently, while not obsfucated, looks like its purposely been converted into spaghetti code. Kinda like they parsed it through a program to abbreviate all subroutine names and change all the variable names to a,b,c,d,e,f,g,etc,etc

You, me, or anyone else could go technically go read it, but it'd take more time and headaches than it's worth.


Edit: On a side note, while the Ace libraries are convenient and provide a layer of separation from some wow api, they are extremely bloated and somewhat inefficient. (Even if they themselves are calling them "Lightweight")

Last edited by merak69 : 04-08-09 at 10:43 AM.
 
04-09-09, 09:08 AM   #3
Unbelievable
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I'm pretty sure that an SVN is highly unlikely.

Carbonite was (until recently) a commercial product. The only reason that the code is visable at all is to comply with Blizzard's (dodgey) policy. If that policy is ever tested in court and found to be non-binding OR in light of the massive opposition Blizzard decide to revoke it, then Carbonite could return to the commercial arena. Providing an SVN could limit their option to do so IMO.
 
04-09-09, 11:03 AM   #4
wreck
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Originally Posted by Unbelievable View Post
Carbonite could return to the commercial arena. Providing an SVN could limit their option to do so IMO.
That doesn't actually hold true. There are commercial products that are in open source. Many companies do this for a number of reasons:
  • It allows users to verify there are no security holes
  • Users can submit potential bug fixes and new features
  • It generates a developer community

So simply opening the source code up does nothing to eliminate the commercial viability of a product. If the license states that the company retains all rights and any changes are subject to approval of the company. Even Microsoft has released portions of their code to open source, but they maintain the rights and still sell the products.
 
04-09-09, 11:17 AM   #5
Unbelievable
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An SVN would mean making the code even more readable. Carbonite's developers would encrypt or byte-code the entire project if they were permitted to do so. They aren't but that doesn't mean they want to offer there code up on a plate for the mod community to pick over and/or plagerise.

The security holes thing is kinda silly tbh. The code is readable right now. Besides, if you don't trust a mod then simply don't use it. Personally, I've found no reason to not trust Carbonite either now or in the past. The moment that trust is broken is the moment I stop using the mod. Ironically, in some way's the commercial nature of previous versions provided some reassurance. Carbon Based Creations business model was to make sales, which would've been pretty hard to sustain if they went about exploiting their customers.

Sure 3rd party debugging is a noble and worthy service to offer, but so far Carbonite has managed admirably without it. Any 3rd party code submissions would limit Carbon Based Creations, LLC's ability to claim sole copyright over their work. So the only value in the debugging argument is really to point at specific lines of code and say "this needs changing", which is something you could do right now if you needed to.

Over on the General Carbonite forums Haavok has already stated:

Originally Posted by Haavok
Carbonite was released in this form strictly to comply with the new UI policy; it was not released to be some kind of coding resource for other addon developers.

If an addon developer would like to hook into Carbonite in some way, we will do our best to provide them with an API/information to do so (as we have done in the past).
Frankly I agree with Haavok. It's not like Carbonite's code has been made readable because the Carbon Based Creations have freely chosen to do so. The change was forced upon them by Blizzard.

Last edited by Unbelievable : 04-09-09 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Fleshed out my response
 
04-09-09, 11:38 AM   #6
Haavok
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Sorry, no plans at this time. We appreciate the interest in contributing to Carbonite but right now our focus is on getting migrated over to WoWI and seeing if we can’t make this donation model work for us.
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04-09-09, 08:57 PM   #7
wreck
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Just pointing out that in no way was I saying I don't trust the Carbonite developers. I was talking about why many many other commercial products are open source.

TBH, if you believe that you can trust a closed source vendor with making highly secure products you have never used a Microsoft OS. I work for a company who does network security products. If it weren't for Microsoft we'd be out of totally business

At any rate, it is no biggy if they don't make Carbonite open source. I was just pointing out that being open is perfectly viable for commercial software.

Sorry you missed the entire point of my post.
 
04-10-09, 05:04 AM   #8
Unbelievable
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Re Security
Originally Posted by wreck
TBH, if you believe that you can trust a closed source vendor with making highly secure products you have never used a Microsoft OS. I work for a company who does network security products. If it weren't for Microsoft we'd be out of totally business
I did't say closed source was more secure than open source. I said commercial, see:

Originally Posted by Unbelievable
Ironically, in some way's the commercial nature of previous versions provided some reassurance.

Re Commercial open source

Originally Posted by wreck
I was just pointing out that being open is perfectly viable for commercial software.
Sure there's plenty of examples of commercial open source projects but that's not the point. Carbonite is in the middle of an unusual transition. How many commercial enterprises are told they must comply with an imposed set of strict regulations that force their code to suddenly shift from commercial closed source to something along the lines of open source freeware, with limitations on how to market their product while simultaneously losing a major way to communicate any form of sales pitch within the intended environment? I can think of exactly 0.

CBC may yet go the SVN route. It may yet prove to be a cost saving panacea. But it might also severely limit what CBC do with Carbonite later.

Now really isn't a great time to mess about sorting out an SVN, with all the implications that has for protecting CBC's intellectual property, not just from being stolen but from being sabotaged via plagerised code submissions (remember, there's an awful lot of hate out there - check official forums re the new UI policy and see where fingers are pointing). I.E. maintaining sole copyright becomes a non-trivial activity. This doesn't matter so much if you plan to stay open source, because you've can always fall back on "sorry, it was a 3rd party submission that somehow slipped under the radar" and remove it.

However, what if Blizzard break Carbonite hopelessly, outlaw it or make it redundant? Or what if CBC's new (blizzard imposed) business model fails? It stands to reason that CBC would want to take it's code, port it to a different MMO (one who's owners recognise copyright holders legal rights to distribute their own creations how they see fit): The closed source model option re-surfaces.

It's relatively easy to move from closed source to open source, but it's most certainly not as easy to move from free open source back to paid-for closed source, what with large chunks of code floating around. Even if you close the SVN, there's going to be unofficial mirrors out there to deal with. And any 3rd party dodgey SVN code becomes a serious liability should it's ownership ever be brought into question.

To me it seems like a lot of hassle for CBC, for relatively little gain, especially right now when they're still working out if donations are enough to keep Carbonite viable

Apologies if I'm not making sense or seem rabid - I've been up all night

Last edited by Unbelievable : 04-12-09 at 10:44 PM.
 
 

WoWInterface » Featured Projects » Carbonite » Carbonite Archive » Possibility of SVN?

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