Quantcast Letter to Blizzard - December 5th - Page 5 - WoWInterface
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12-16-13, 10:55 PM   #81
gtrstar
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Both Ways

I have read many call Scott Greedy but what they fail to get is that it goes both ways, calling someone greedy for asking that you show some respect to their efforts either with comments (email) or monetarily seems to make less sense than demanding that very product for FREE, so who's really being greedy?
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12-16-13, 11:00 PM   #82
bruj0
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Originally Posted by Sietepestes View Post
Like Scott I am a software developer, I have a particular product and I have gotten the same flak as Scott has but rather than draw attention or require people to bow before me because I am root... I have an insanely good product, I embrace them all... the nice people with complements and the asshats that hate me, because I rather have 100% of them all than 40%.

I think you, Scott, have a community that loves you and supports you, they (the remaining ones) are not going anywhere. The ones that dont care or have different ideologies have gone, moved to greener pastures.


1. Remove the hurdles and continue giving NUI+ for free, without having to ask a buddy or another colleague and without having to kiss babies or do something cool for the community...
2. Support those constituents, YOU want to support, the good people that love you and support you, through your own forums and your own site.
3. Accept Donations, and instead of presenting donations as a way to get NUI+ faster, offer other goodies, because if its true that you have 36,000 subscribers of nui, you can start probably your own wowinterface, or even your own community where all developers are treated fairly and with the respect they deserve.

ME
This guys gets it, i like what he says, support the people that supports you
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12-17-13, 12:49 AM   #83
Seer
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Originally Posted by bruj0 View Post
You are wrong about that, they are telling us what can and what we cant do with our intellectual property, ie the addons.
May i remind you there is absolutly 0 Blizzard code on any addon ever created? its 100% writing by somebody else.
Besides you are nobody to be asking to stop doing something or the other, if you disagree say so and move on.
Do you use the name "World of Warcraft" in any way for the addon? If so, you're using a trademark that's not yours, making money, and Blizzard needs to protect that trademark.

Offcourse, as Spiel said, we are not lawyers.
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Last edited by Seer : 12-17-13 at 12:54 AM.
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12-17-13, 01:45 AM   #84
Aachel
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Originally Posted by Baldoras View Post
I am a parent of 3 kids and have previewed and approved/denied all games for my kids. If by chance I bought a game that was borderline, I kept control of the game and they were only allowed to play it when I was playing with them, or in the same room with them so I could monitor what was going on. More parents need to do the same.
I do too! And I agree with you on every point. Very well written post.
Besides.. I pay Blizzars for playing Wow. And I pay Curse to update my addons. I can get it for free, but its faster and have a "one-button - update all" for paying costomers. So I choose the better version. Its my choice.
I used to use Magelo Sync. But it was all messed up when the 64 bit client were launced, and they seem to never be able to support it. They charge money for features. Same does AskMrRobot, wich I also use, but the free version.
For me nUI is the best interface. And it is the UI I reccomend my friends to use. I'm not much of a forumtroll though, so if everything works fine you are most likely to never hear from me. If something is not working, you will probably not hear from me either if I find a solution on the forums. But now I think I need to say something, Because all the bickering from peoples that want everything for free is seriousley annoying. You cant go into a jewelery store and say you want a necklace for free because you bought a dress in the shop next door.
Scott has my full support on what he does.
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12-17-13, 02:24 AM   #85
bruj0
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Originally Posted by Seer View Post
Do you use the name "World of Warcraft" in any way for the addon? If so, you're using a trademark that's not yours, making money, and Blizzard needs to protect that trademark.

Offcourse, as Spiel said, we are not lawyers.
Do you know the difference between copyright and trademark?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

Please educate yourself before typing nonsense.
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12-17-13, 05:50 AM   #86
TheWafflian
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Originally Posted by Aachel View Post
I do too! And I agree with you on every point. Very well written post.
But now I think I need to say something, Because all the bickering from peoples that want everything for free is seriousley annoying. You cant go into a jewelery store and say you want a necklace for free because you bought a dress in the shop next door.
Scott has my full support on what he does.
It's not entitlement to want something for free when it's been promised for free. A better allegory would be "Jim's dad says you can have one of Jim's crafts for free, but then Jim refuses to give it to you".

Blizzard, not the addon developers, decides how addons are managed monetarily. Not by court, lawyer-based means, but because they can disable it if they don't like what you are doing.

Hoping for donations is expected, but if an addon developer makes addons for the sole purpose of making money (I know Scott isn't, I'm just arguing the point), they should code for games without Blizzard's policy.
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12-17-13, 06:16 AM   #87
Kaah
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I am like 'Aachel'
not posting, just following
to keep it short:
I second 'Baldoras' and 'Sietepestes'

Well, as I am already here:

Nui is and has been the sole interface addon I wholeheartedly recommend - and all of the family accounts use it
install, use and support are above anything I ever tried (wow addon-wise)

I would wish you keep it freely available


Sincerely
Kaah

(not a native speaker here.... so just to make sure, the post is meant to be positive and supportive to scott )

Last edited by Kaah : 12-17-13 at 06:23 AM.
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12-17-13, 08:01 AM   #88
nexy33
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Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Glad your UI is being shut down its impossible for you people to see the issue here.
Its the entitlement generation like you that have eroded wow to the pile of crap it is now, I'm going to hazard a guess your a kid and probably don't work for a living because that spoiled I deserve everything gimme gimme now attitude don't hold water in the real world. Never has NUI been pay for there's always been a free way usually sign up to the mailing list and tipping someone a few bucks for there time for making something you get so much use out of is just good manners something you clearly lack.

To the mods ban me if you like I no longer play wow and I find the hypocrisy of a site which itself has a premium version listing all the things you get with premium which is against the rules for the authors who make this site possible laughable.
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12-17-13, 08:12 AM   #89
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@nexy33 Wow is not crap, just a lot of them who is playing. I still have a lot of fun in wow and I know a lot of nice and helpful people.
And the paid version of things here at wowInterface is not against any rules, you get the same add ons if you pay or not, the premium features is for more forum functionality.
Same with the paid version of Curse, you can pay to get access to download all at once button, but it have nothing to do with the add ons.
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Quoting the post right above you`re own just make the post unnecessary long.
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12-17-13, 09:07 AM   #90
Haleth
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I'm just going to repeat what I said in a different topic:

Regardless of your opinion on this matter, please keep it civil and refrain from insulting others (that includes calling names) over subjects like these. There's no need for that and it's counter-productive.
Personal insults such as these:

[...]I'm going to hazard a guess your a kid and probably don't work for a living[...]
are not acceptable regardless of the circumstances, and do not contribute to the discussion in any way or form.
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12-17-13, 09:18 AM   #91
Seer
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Originally Posted by bruj0 View Post
Do you know the difference between copyright and trademark?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright


Please educate yourself before typing nonsense.
I'm talking about trademark being a reason blizzard denies you to ask money for it. Keep your childish remark about educate yourself to yourself will you, if you cant grasp someone trying to offer an alternative to your view it's about copyright.

World of Warcraft, Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries.

This addon is for World Of Warcraft(tm). Pay 50 bucks so you can use this addon.

You dont see the problem with that?

Here's a book for World of Warcraft. Pay 75 bucks to read it.

Trademark is Blizzard, copyright in theory the author, depending on contracts.
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Last edited by Seer : 12-17-13 at 09:26 AM.
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12-17-13, 09:26 AM   #92
spiel2001
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I know emotions are running high everywhere, my own included, but I would ask that people please try and take the high road and keep it a civil discourse as much as possible.
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12-17-13, 10:00 AM   #93
nexy33
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Originally Posted by Mazzop View Post
Kestrelon, nice trolling. I dont see any addon-related payd feature on WoWI Premium, swing and a miss

If there so much u guys who support him, why u wont be moderators on his forum, if dealing with demanding donkeys is main issue here
you obviously missed the no advertisements part then:

quoted from Cairenns post As well as going against our rules:

This file is offered free of charge and is not available elsewhere for a fee.
This file is free from advertisements or promotions or nag screens.
This file has no time limit and is free to use. (Paid or Trial-ware are not accepted here)

oh look here's one of wow ui's premium features No advertisements
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12-17-13, 10:31 AM   #94
Haleth
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There is quite a difference between having advertisements and premium benefits on a fan site and having those in an addon. The latter is not allowed.
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12-17-13, 11:38 AM   #95
Tumes
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Originally Posted by TheWafflian View Post
Blizzard, not the addon developers, decides how addons are managed monetarily. Not by court, lawyer-based means, but because they can disable it if they don't like what you are doing.
A few replies ago you said this wasn't the real topic of the thread, and you're correct about that. Scott allows free access to the add-on and Blizzard and WOWI were a bit hasty in their draconic response. First and foremost, that should be rectified.

On the larger topic of a company being able to dictate if third parties can charge for their time and effort on extending the company's software, I'd love to see that argument in court. Heck, I'd like to see it go all the way up to the SCOTUS if necessary. Once you strip away the corporate entity and monetary component of the argument, this argument ultimately boils down to the civil liberties and rights of the individual.

The desire by Blizzard should really be about the integrity of the gaming experience. That can be accomplished by providing APIs for their extensible interface, which they currently do, and enforcing those APIs. If they find that a add-on is affecting the stability and playability of the game, then sure, they are well within their rights to require that a developer brings their add-on inline with those requirements to ensure a stable and playable software environment.

Those requirements are realistic *technical* considerations.

The choice to charge for add-ons is not even close to being a *technical* consideration, and does not affect the integrity of the gaming experience from either a stability or playability standpoint.

As I said earlier, the only real right Blizzard has is to remove the ability to extend the interface at all, if they really want to prevent people from choosing to charge for the add-ons they develop.

Paying a fee for an add-on is based on an agreement between the consumer and the provider.

As has been noted previously, none of us are lawyers. But we all should understand what constitutes civil liberties and rights, and we should acknowledge those and expect that they be respected by ourselves and others. And we should most certainly champion those arguments in court when a party attempts to enforce a legal agreement that violates them.
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12-17-13, 12:22 PM   #96
TheWafflian
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Originally Posted by Tumes View Post
A few replies ago you said this wasn't the real topic of the thread, and you're correct about that. Scott allows free access to the add-on and Blizzard and WOWI were a bit hasty in their draconic response. First and foremost, that should be rectified.

On the larger topic of a company being able to dictate if third parties can charge for their time and effort on extending the company's software, I'd love to see that argument in court. Heck, I'd like to see it go all the way up to the SCOTUS if necessary. Once you strip away the corporate entity and monetary component of the argument, this argument ultimately boils down to the civil liberties and rights of the individual.

The desire by Blizzard should really be about the integrity of the gaming experience. That can be accomplished by providing APIs for their extensible interface, which they currently do, and enforcing those APIs. If they find that a add-on is affecting the stability and playability of the game, then sure, they are well within their rights to require that a developer brings their add-on inline with those requirements to ensure a stable and playable software environment.

Paying a fee for an add-on is based on an agreement between the consumer and the provider.

As has been noted previously, none of us are lawyers. But we all should understand what constitutes civil liberties and rights, and we should acknowledge those and expect that they be respected by ourselves and others. And we should most certainly champion those arguments in court when a party attempts to enforce a legal agreement that violates them.
I've edited out a couple paragraphs to lessen the size of the quote, the discussion as to whether Blizzard should allow paid addons is another one entirely.

The policy isn't a violation of rights - An addon developer has the rights to require payment for an addon, but not the means to keep it compatible with WoW (In the event of Blizzard coding against a specific addon). Only Blizzard has those means, and the addon developer does not have the right to force Blizzard's cooperation. Blizzard can't legally force the developer to make his addon in a specific fashion, but nor can the Developer force blizzard to make their game in a specific fashion.

Blizzard does, however, have the right to code the game in a way they see fit. It has no obligation to make WoW compatible with a specific addon. They own the code to WoW as much as an addon developer owns the code to his addon - The difference is that the addon requires wow to be coded in a way that is compatible.

There is nothing legal is Blizzard trying to force the addon developer to give it away for free.

There is nothing illegal, however, in blizzard altering it's game's code in a way that renders a policy-violating addon useless.
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12-17-13, 03:09 PM   #97
bruj0
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Originally Posted by Haleth View Post
There is quite a difference between having advertisements and premium benefits on a fan site and having those in an addon. The latter is not allowed.
However it does happens and nobody does anything to stop it:

http://manaview.com/tycoon/
http://www.manaview.com/booster/
http://www.zygorguides.com
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12-18-13, 01:09 AM   #98
Kailef
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Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
I know emotions are running high everywhere, my own included, but I would ask that people please try and take the high road and keep it a civil discourse as much as possible.
Scott,

You may recall my earlier message regarding how I usually try to avoid getting involved in forum "debates" that I posted back on page 2. This thread is, unfortunately, no exception. Regardless, you have my full support.
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12-18-13, 05:56 AM   #99
nexy33
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Originally Posted by Haleth View Post
There is quite a difference between having advertisements and premium benefits on a fan site and having those in an addon. The latter is not allowed.
Of course there is the former benefits this site which makes money of the authors backs the latter does not.
Since were talking standards you might want to have a look at how you moderate its very biased the guy i responded to made the comment he was glad scotts ui was being shut down you said nothing.

please ban my account as like many others i wont be back to this ****hole either.
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12-18-13, 07:44 AM   #100
Haleth
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If you want to argue with Blizzard's addon development policies, I'm afraid you should take it up with Blizzard and not with us.

You will find that the majority of addon authors are absolutely fine with websites like WoWInterface and Curse "making money off their backs", and providing a convenient way to distribute addons and discuss development with other authors.
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WoWInterface » Featured Projects » nUI, MozzFullWorldMap and PartySpotter » General » nUI: Community Chat » Letter to Blizzard - December 5th

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