Debuffs?

[PigtailsofDoom]

Is there anyway to show Debuffs with the nUI? As an Arcane mage I use the Arcane Blast debuff to keep track of my rotation, and it would be really helpful.

[spiel2001]

You're talking about debuffs you have on the target?

Yes... they are in the HUD... dead center just below your casting bar... those are specifically the debuffs you have cast on hostile targets or the buffs you have cast on friendly targets and their time remaining.

[PigtailsofDoom]

No, I'm talking about debuffs on ME. As an Arcane mage, when we cast Arcane Blast, we get a debuff that stacks up to three times, which causes the spell to cost more mana per stack, but it also does that much more dmg per stack as well. Well, actually it does that regardless of spec, but typically other specs don't use Arcane Blast, so it doesn't matter to them. I use the Simple HUD setting if it makes any difference.

And also I wanted to thank you for all your hard work since patch day, with getting me and other people approved to download the nUI+ version and getting it out and everything.

[Xrystal]

Debuffs on you should show on the left side of the hud. If you cycle through the hud styles they are on the left of the left set of bars. They should still appear though in the non bar setup.

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by PigtailsofDoom No, I'm talking about debuffs on ME. As an Arcane mage, when we cast Arcane Blast, we get a debuff that stacks up to three times, which causes the spell to cost more mana per stack, but it also does that much more dmg per stack as well. Well, actually it does that regardless of spec, but typically other specs don't use Arcane Blast, so it doesn't matter to them. I use the Simple HUD setting if it makes any difference.

Yes... debuffs do not show in the HUD using the simple HUD mode... you have to look on your unit frame for debuffs if you're using that mode... or switch to the Player/Target mode for that fight in which case the debuffs will appear at the upper left of the HUD below your name.

And also I wanted to thank you for all your hard work since patch day, with getting me and other people approved to download the nUI+ version and getting it out and everything.

You're most welcome.

[PigtailsofDoom]

All right, that's good to know. Would it be possible in a future version to be able to see debuffs on the simple HUD setting? No offense intended, but I find the bars on the other HUD settings very distracting and cluttery and I don't care for them. >.>

[spiel2001]

I could work that out I'm sure... not sure how much hate and discontent it would cause though.

[Xrystal]

maybe a slash command or optional extra Just noticed myself that they don't appear on the simple hud, although most of the time I use the bars displayed.

[spiel2001]

That would be a real PITA to code and support especially given that it is intended in the long run that people be able to fully customize the layout... knowing which ones to and not to enable and so on would quickly become a snowball on a hillside. I'll give it thought... just not sure the best solution path yet.

[Xrystal]

Rofl, its your addon Scott Some of us will be able to work out any changes like that and hopefully remember the changes we make before the next release comes out. Not that I did that before

I was just thinking of a switch of some sort to make things easier for the non programmers out there

[neuralassassin]

Debuffs in simple Hud would be AWESOME!!!!!! I like that idea very much please....

[Seer]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 That would be a real PITA to code and support especially given that it is intended in the long run that people be able to fully customize the layout... knowing which ones to and not to enable and so on would quickly become a snowball on a hillside. I'll give it thought... just not sure the best solution path yet.

How about not a button but, using a config gui (if you ever get to that) and just select what you want to show ?

[x] hud - layout a
[ ] hud - layout b
[ ] hud - layout c
[x] debuffs
[ ] auras text box
[x] auras icons

Hope you get what I mean.. Think I messed up the naming a bit :-p

[spiel2001]

The problem with that is that the idea of what a HUD is may be completely different between two differing layouts. For that matter, any given layout may not have any HUD at all while another has a HUD and no unit panels. It's kind of hard to explain... the key is to understand is that the layout you're looking at is not nUI... it's just a presentation and nUI is the engine that drives it. What the presentation itself is is in fact entirely arbitrary, so there's no way to have an option that says "turn this part of the display on or off" because it may not exist at all. Likewise, it may exist, but the person who created the layout might have given it a different name, etc.

The issue is that nUI is actually designed to be a UI engine, not a UI... the layout is the UI and who knows what that UI will be once I open the door to people creating their own custom UIs and sharing them?

Understand?

[Seer]

Think I get what you mean, but since I think in an end user and support mind.. Might be misreading you :-p

but the person who created the layout might have given it a different name, etc.

Isn't that what "API's" are for ? Wouldn't a layout use the same names the engine expects (internal) ? If a layout only has one HUD option then selecting option 2 or 3 just show no hud.

Or, "just" make a selection box that shows the possible options for a given UI element.

The layout maker only defines a "Hud1" so the selection box only shows [Hud1] and [none]. A different layout has 3 possible huds so the selection box only shows [Hud1], [Hud2], [Hud3] and [none].. Off course Hud1 is the internal name, the "display name" could be totally different. Same for debuffs, unit frames etc etc.

The one who designs the layout decides what elements to "replace/offer" or not. If he makes a layout that doesn't show debuffs then that selection box only has the option [none].

Might be a real pain to set up, maybe even impossible, just a thought. Seems like it would be a flexible solution tho, except maybe the current available plug ins might cause problems for custom layouts, but that might allready be the case. (A layout defines the minimap to be at the top in the middle and the plug in tries to put it "back" in the right lower panel that doesn't exist or something like that)

The issue is that nUI is actually designed to be a UI engine, not a UI...

But, the engine needs to be told what to show, if a layout doesn't have the option to show something then nothing is shown and not show the parts of the UI you created to "show case nUI", unless the layout creater defines that his ui can use the default ui elements that come with nUI (if you allow that off course, might be better not to have a UI be able to use parts of other layouts).

I know nUI is a big mod, so not to belittle you/it (or other mods) but don't unit frame mods like oUF, pitbull offer similar options ? Load in a style and what is offered by that style can be tweaked a bit by the end user ?

Off course, not offering any options is a possible solution as well.. If a layout doesn't do what you (the user) wants, go ask the creator of the layout to change it, don't bother the programmer of the engine.

[spiel2001]

In a nutshell.... yes... oUF and the like load in a style for a unit frame... but take the HUD as the simplest example which is not a unit frame but a collection of many unit frames of different types.

What you're asking for would the equivalent of asking Blizzard for an option in their config to enable or disable nUI's unit panels. The API allows the outside modder to change the presentation of the internal engine, but it is impossible for the internal engine to anticipate what the outside mod is going to try to do with that API.

Granted, yes, I could say that you have to name your HUDs to 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. and that every HUD must have this element named that so I can control it, but then I am greatly limiting the creative expression of the other person and in many ways would cause more harm than good.

The solution to the problem is to get nUI matured to the state where the tools to modify the UI to your personal taste are in place and the ability to share alternate layouts is in place, etc. Then this whole issue goes away.

[Seer]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 In a nutshell.... yes... oUF and the like load in a style for a unit frame... but take the HUD as the simplest example which is not a unit frame but a collection of many unit frames of different types.

But those types would be tied to one "collection" or can a type be set to more then one "collection"? Because, in the end it would be about showing the whole puzzle and not just a piece of it right ?

Would someone who wants to create a layout have to know all these different types ?

Originally Posted by spiel2001 Granted, yes, I could say that you have to name your HUDs to 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. and that every HUD must have this element named that so I can control it, but then I am greatly limiting the creative expression of the other person and in many ways would cause more harm than good.

Why would that be then ? It's just a name, how they fill it shouldn't matter much as long as the element is a hud ? And aren't they allready "limited" in how the API/engine and even WoW is expecting the layout to be made up ? Wouldn't it make it easier to work with pre defined names instead of comming up with their own names ? If I wanted to create a Hud myself I would prefer I would go to the tool, select hud1 and "paint" away. (Tho I don't think that would be a way to easy view of things)

Not to mention you having to support them, wouldn't it be easier if they report "hud 1" instead "namethecreatorcameupwith1" ? (Here at work different departments use different names for the same program, but at times the same name for another.. Talk about nightmare support..)

Not trying to be a pain the backside, just curious.

Originally Posted by spiel2001 The solution to the problem is to get nUI matured to the state where the tools to modify the UI to your personal taste are in place and the ability to share alternate layouts is in place, etc. Then this whole issue goes away.

Then there is no problem ? As the simplest solution would be to "deny" UI layout requests and focus on fixing the few bugs left and get the tools done. After al, the "current nUI layout" is mostly how you like the ui to be with a lot of feedback from the fist adaptors/users. And my suggestion would mostly only be feasible when you have these tools anyway.

You "crossed" the line where number of users and what they want in a ui is way larger that you cannot please them ASAP anyway a long time ago.

Cutting it a bit short, still at work and time to go home, not to mention need a bio as well.....

Thanks for the chat :-p

[spiel2001]

Nah... you're missing a lot of points because you (understandably) don't know how the layout engine works. I've been trying to keep the discussion non-technical but you're starting to push me into having to get into the geek stuff.

For starters, there's nothing that says a HUD has to have any (de)buff display or how many it has. Nor is there anything that limits how many units the HUD tracks or which units or how many times a single unit is tracked.

Take, for example, the target which has three aura displays... which one is the debuff toggle supposed to work for? There's two different debuff displays in the target HUD.

Again... picking specific examples is a bad idea because it limits the scope of the conversation. The bottom line is simple: in the same way that it is not reasonable to expect Blizzard to be able to add nUI configuration options to their built in panels anticipating what I'm going to do, it is not possible for me to be able to anticipate what the people who mod nUI's layouts are going to do.

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by Seer Then there is no problem ? As the simplest solution would be to "deny" UI layout requests and focus on fixing the few bugs left and get the tools done. After al, the "current nUI layout" is mostly how you like the ui to be with a lot of feedback from the fist adaptors/users. And my suggestion would mostly only be feasible when you have these tools anyway. You "crossed" the line where number of users and what they want in a ui is way larger that you cannot please them ASAP anyway a long time ago.

Oh yeah... the line vanished many months ago and I saw it coming which was what led to Beta 2 and moving toward the layout engine approach because in the end I'll be in a position where I can manage the engine and leave the creation of layouts to suit everyone's taste to everyone else... that's exactly the point of the whole exercise is that I will not longer have to cater to everyone's wants... they can do it themselves or download someone else's layout that suits their personal tastes and I'll be a very happy boy ~smile~

[Seer]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 Nah... you're missing a lot of points because you (understandably) don't know how the layout engine works. I've been trying to keep the discussion non-technical but you're starting to push me into having to get into the geek stuff.

Heheh, I'm not that afraid of geek talk, more of programming chat :-p (Still have nightmares from my own programming efforts, and that was somewhere in 1988).

I don't push that hard do I ? Only a small gnome ya knwo..

Originally Posted by spiel2001 For starters, there's nothing that says a HUD has to have any (de)buff display or how many it has. Nor is there anything that limits how many units the HUD tracks or which units or how many times a single unit is tracked. Take, for example, the target which has three aura displays... which one is the debuff toggle supposed to work for? There's two different debuff displays in the target HUD.

Why did I suddenly feel sorry for those that want to create a layout ? Do they have to worry about all that as well ?

Would the one making the layout be able to offer their own config gui/commands ?

Originally Posted by spiel2001 Again... picking specific examples is a bad idea because it limits the scope of the conversation. The bottom line is simple: in the same way that it is not reasonable to expect Blizzard to be able to add nUI configuration options to their built in panels anticipating what I'm going to do, it is not possible for me to be able to anticipate what the people who mod nUI's layouts are going to do.

Heheh, well maybe not make it for others, just for your own nUI layout. I personally would like all your plug in for nUI be rolled into the main package and have the option ingame to turn them on/off. Think you allready said somewhere that wasn't feasible. And if other layouts can have their own configs then they could peak at your code and see how you did it :-p

Anyway, looking forward to see what tools you are going to introduce for normal users () to make a layout.. But to be honest, the current layout is working great for me.