Quantcast Movement mods will not work as of next patch. - WoWInterface
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06-29-05, 02:02 AM   #1
Kaelten
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Movement mods will not work as of next patch.

Yep its official

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...p=1#post169829
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06-29-05, 02:52 AM   #2
Inokis
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Good. Now they need to get rid of the "see all target info" type mods.
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06-29-05, 07:12 AM   #3
Kaelten
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This is my stance on it:
I would like to say that I'm going to be sorry to see mods like Autotravel go.

Nothing is more agrivating than having to run huge zones like wetlands or duskwood dozens of times back and forth when questing.

When using the autotravel mod I'm able to do this and it not be a hassel. Before I found autotravel I had alot more handcramps got severally annoyed at running back and forth and it severaly limited my ability to enjoy the game.

There are disadvantages to using autotravel, if you get jumped when using autotravel you can almost count on the fact that your dead.

Also you're more than likely to miss the herbs and mining along the path your running.

The other moment that I enjoyed using this mod was to help me navigate places like stormwind, I used to get severally pissed off when I would make an accidental turn into the wrong part of SW.

I'm not saying that this type of functionality can not be abused, but for the purpose of making the game less stressful and more entertaining, well that makes the game better in my opinion, not a horrific "counter to the spirit of the game" for a game should be stressfree and fun. or else it ceases to be a pure game.
For me it took the tidium out of the game. I'll have to say that unless they find another way to take that tidium out, my life span in playing and enjoying wow will be lessened, and when thats lessened so are the lifespan of my mods.

Target info crap is inconsequental, while its nice to know what level a mob is its not a detriment to my playing experaiance if I don't know. It causes me know physical discomfort nor does it make me agrivated, I'm just like, "oh crap, run!" The loss of mods like AutoTravel are going to make things more agrivating simply for the fact that I'll get more frustrated and I'll have more handcramps, I use a keyboard alot and movement can get wearing on my hands.
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06-29-05, 11:34 AM   #4
Inokis
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My take on it is just the opposite of yours. I am in agreement with blizzard. One form of automation leads to another, leads to anther etc... I've played too many games where automation went unchecked resulting in uncontrolled botting to such an extent that the game(s) was totally compromised. The game is extremely well thought out and so was the travel system, there's no need for these automation mods.
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06-29-05, 12:18 PM   #5
Littlejohn
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WoW has a bunch of firsts for me. First RPG game. First on-line game. First time mod'ing a game.

Why are bots bad?

The programmer geek in me wishes there were a bot-friendly server that I could experiment with. I think it would be really cool to "solo" with a group of my own bots. The NPCs are so horribly boring in WoW. Wouldn't it be fun to make some with personalities?
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06-29-05, 12:22 PM   #6
Inokis
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Why are bots bad?

AFK Farming, AFK Gameplay just to name two.
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06-29-05, 01:15 PM   #7
Syllani
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Originally Posted by Inokis
Why are bots bad?

AFK Farming, AFK Gameplay just to name two.
To play devil's advocate for a moment...

How exactly do these two things affect you? If someone wants to pay $15/mo to have their computer AI play for them, why not? It shouldn't affect you in the slightest, unless it gets to the point where the actions of their AI would be considered to be griefing you, in which case report them.

Now don't get me wrong, I dislike the idea of AFK farming because it would encourage the people who farm gold to sell for real money (a practice I abhor).

My stance on the current issue of mods like AutoTravel, however, is the same as Kaelten's. The game is immensely more enjoyable if I don't have to spend 1/2 to 2/3 of my gameplay time steering a character on a long run that I may have ran hundreds of times before. From an RP standpoint... shouldn't my character *know* the way by now without me having to basically tell him "ok, keep running straight... run straight... ok, turn a little to the left since the road curves here... ok, a little to the right..." etc.

Also from an RP standpoint, shouldn't our characters be able to at least walk and talk at the same time?? How many of you can effectively chat while steering? Didn't think so.

People who really want to bot are going to bot using illegal 3rd-party tools, regardless. All changes like these do is hurt the legitamate gamer who uses them while *at the computer* to help alleviate one of the more tedious and un-fun aspects of the game.
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06-29-05, 04:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Syllani
To play devil's advocate for a moment...

How exactly do these two things affect you?
Gold farmers get rich using bots - places get camped 24/7 a day and people actually at the computer can't use them because someone is on vacation for a week and left their bot there to kill stuff. Lets say for example its also smart enough to rez itself, so you can't just try to kill it. If enough people did this, the influx of gold into the game would cause the prices of everything in the AH to double or triple, and the existing gold that legitimate players have obtained would be worth a lot less.

Just an example

That being said I'm kind of sad to see movement mods go away because the way they had to work was acceptable to me, but I guess not to blizzard. I was considering installing one. Oh well
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06-29-05, 04:38 PM   #9
Inokis
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Perhaps I'm an ignorant hardass that doesn't know diddlysquat, I know I'm not a saint by any means; however my opinions are strong and unwavering on this issue. I've always considered any sort of unattended activity to be detrimental to the core of any game, no matter how slight the impact. I have a lot of gaming principles that I stand by, and not using any mods that allow this type of activity is one of my first priorities. Anything that allows one to perform outside the scope of the intended interface should always be questioned, regardless of the user's motivation. I think this is what Blizzard did and I agree with their decision.

If you have a hard time using movement in the game without a bot type of mod, use mouselook, program a mousebutton to be used for the Autorun, get a trackball mouse; there's lots of alternatives to botting that make travelling easier.
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06-29-05, 05:59 PM   #10
Kaelten
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Originally Posted by Inokis
Anything that allows one to perform outside the scope of the intended interface should always be questioned, regardless of the user's motivation.
Please note that this stance makes all mods ilegal in your standpoint sense all of them change the "intended interface"


Anywho, I would like to point out that on a very real level this will have next to no impact on botting.

Botters don't use scripts for the most part they use advanced third party programs to do things, and if they ever used script for moving, then I'm sure keypress commands from windows and synthisied hardware events will take their place.

The people who that are going to be impacted the most are those who don't abuse this type of mod. The ones that are like, **** you mean I have to waste 15 mins of my time trying to dodge the damned fence on the road, instead of enjoying myself?
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06-30-05, 07:13 AM   #11
Littlejohn
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Originally Posted by Remelio
Gold farmers get rich using bots - places get camped 24/7 a day and people actually at the computer can't use them because someone is on vacation for a week and left their bot there to kill stuff(
Farming is the problem then?

Then 12 year old kids home for the summer playing 24x7 are also a problem?

I think a better solution than outlawing bots would be tracking "exhaustion". The longer you play the worse your character acts. Exhaustion is a negative ability modifier that slows you down, lowers your abilities (all abilities!) and lowers your damage. A totally exhausted level 60 can be killed by a level 1 Kobold.

That's fun, realistic behavior that kills bots. (Could give a purpose to all those beds and chairs in the game...

Another take on exhaustion is just from a game-play perspective: your drop rate goes down. A totally exhausted character doesn't get anything from killing a mob. The *loot* is exhausted!

Oh, by the way, I'd track exhaustion by the player's account and not by the character. It wouldn't stop farming if somebody has 10 characters on one account and just switches whenever one gets exhausted.
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06-30-05, 07:26 AM   #12
Syllani
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Originally Posted by Littlejohn
Farming is the problem then?

Then 12 year old kids home for the summer playing 24x7 are also a problem?

I think a better solution than outlawing bots would be tracking "exhaustion". The longer you play the worse your character acts. Exhaustion is a negative ability modifier that slows you down, lowers your abilities (all abilities!) and lowers your damage. A totally exhausted level 60 can be killed by a level 1 Kobold.

That's fun, realistic behavior that kills bots. (Could give a purpose to all those beds and chairs in the game...

Another take on exhaustion is just from a game-play perspective: your drop rate goes down. A totally exhausted character doesn't get anything from killing a mob. The *loot* is exhausted!

Oh, by the way, I'd track exhaustion by the player's account and not by the character. It wouldn't stop farming if somebody has 10 characters on one account and just switches whenever one gets exhausted.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time for helping the casual gamer keep up with the powergamers. I think you should post it on the Blizzard forums... who knows, there may be the teeniest of chances it will get noticed and implemented.
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06-30-05, 09:31 AM   #13
tralkar
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Lazzy People

Lets see a bot in a baseball game hmmmm.. The runner never has to run after hitting a homerun? Hes got a bot to do it for him.. What are you people thinking This should of never been aloud in the first place. Get up of you lazzy asses and run yourself .. Never in my life have i ever seen this meny lazzy people ...

Last edited by tralkar : 06-30-05 at 09:36 AM.
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06-30-05, 09:46 AM   #14
Littlejohn
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It's over on the Blizz forums at http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...hreadID=338547

I'm putting on my asbestos suit now...
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06-30-05, 10:21 AM   #15
Beladona
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posted a reply outlining my thoughts on it...
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...hreadID=338612

I see this as a worthwhile addition, and think it would be easy to implement.

Think of it this way. Reverse rested xp.

When you spend lots of time at an inn, you gain rested xp. The opposite should be true when you spend lots of time AWAY from an inn. Think about it this way. The longer you play without visiting a location that would give you rested xp, the lower your xp ratio and drop rate chance gets. Don't modify people's stats or anything, as that can be seen as unbalancing. Simply make it so that the longer you play non-stop, the less chance you have of getting good drops (past green) and the less xp you get.

As an addition, they could implement negative rest. If your rest value is below 0, when you finally DO reach a place that allows you to rest, you have to make up that negative amount before you get back into the rested bonus again. So if I played 48 hours straight without resting, and my rest value was something like -200, I would have to gain that -200 to get back to 0 rest, and only then would I be able to acrue rest xp.

I am sure some people would not like the idea of drop rate reduction being tied into rest xp, and I agree that may be a bit much, but from the point of view of trying to prevent true farming bots from gaining anything, it really WOULD be effective...
This would slow people down who play hours on end, and kind of make it so casual players and hard-core players reach levels at relatively the same time. Once you reach 60, the xp ratio drop wouldn't really matter, as you will be doing pvp or raids more than anything...

Last edited by Beladona : 06-30-05 at 10:24 AM.
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06-30-05, 10:23 AM   #16
Littlejohn
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Originally Posted by tralkar
Get up of you lazzy asses and run yourself .. Never in my life have i ever seen this meny lazzy people ...
It's kind of ironic that you believe playing the game "manually" is the opposite of being lazy. Just a guess, but I bet most working adults think playing the game IS being lazy.

So far the anti-botter arguments come down to:

1. it makes farming easier
2. it violates some people's opinions of how to play the game correctly

Any others?
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06-30-05, 10:30 AM   #17
Beladona
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The fact of the matter is, regardless of popular opinion on the topic of what is and is not "botting", there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Most MMORPG games draw that line here...

Any period of gameplay in which the player can be engaged in activities (moving, fighting, looting, what have you) while UNATTENDED is considered "botting". Granted this is not cut and dry black and white, as there will be various cases in which people can argue that going afk alone is unattended gameplay (which is why they have auto-logoff timeouts). Another example is auto-follow although this is a necessary evil that most developers accept due to it's benefits.

Personally I feel that the autorun addon falls into the category of unnatended gameplay. While you may or may not agree, you cannot argue that it DOES in fact allow you to do something that you would otherwise have to do manually while physically at your computer. This is proof in and of itself that it DOES allow unattended gameplay in some form. Things like auto-follow is a mechanism that is part of the game without any third party programs addons, while this addon is something someone else developed and frankly allows you to do something the developers didn't intend to be possible...

Remember, they are not trying to take away something that is essential to your enjoyment of the game. They are trying to destroy avenues that botters can use to destroy your enjoyment of the game. Personally I would rather be present when my character is being played, as that is the whole point of playing a game in the first place. Otherwise you may as well pay to watch someone else play...

Last edited by Beladona : 06-30-05 at 10:32 AM.
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06-30-05, 10:31 AM   #18
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You're missing the "bot owning the camp" bit too. Enough people with bots, everything is camped by a super efficient bot that will always react faster than you because its going at the speed of the processor instead of your brain. Even worse, a pvp bot? Given enough AI, and the right interface functions, you could program something to do almost anything for you (fishing bot comes to mind, but again, thats back to gold inflation)

Pretty much it comes down to the point that the people with bots will start to inconvienence the people without them in a pretty short period of time, and not only that, but since its a bot, they're gonna be there 24/7 (or whenever they're not playing) and then whenever they're done, they'll sit them back there and even if you're at the camp, you go back to the "bot can react way quicker than you can" argument.

So if you look at the bigger picture, its more than just "making farming easier" and "thats not how you're supposed to play" - at excessive levels, the economic impact alone would make it to where normal players simply wouldn't have enough gold to buy things, because gold is so worthless in the player economy because of the massive influx of gold due to farmers.
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06-30-05, 10:36 AM   #19
Beladona
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I totally agree with Rem. Remember something else too. While some of you may not be happy with this change, one things DOES ring loud and clear. Blizzard is aware of the farming problem, and is looking at ways to prevent, or at least hamper it as much as they can. It is never easy to do something like that without hampering regular gameplay as well, but I believe they are doing an admirable job so far of listening to peoples concerns, and doing what is in the best interest of all of us.

There IS a farming problem in WOW, whether people know about it or not. Only the developers can really do anything about it, because farmers / botters always find a way to get around it in the end. It is an ongoing thing that takes time to battle...
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06-30-05, 10:42 AM   #20
Cairenn
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I can see both sides of the argument and I'm not going to comment on either side. I am going to comment on one thing and one thing only:

Keep it civil, folks

So far, the thread has mostly remained civil. Keep it that way. Discussion and debate is completely acceptable and even encouraged. However, attacks of one another are not.

This is the only warning I will issue. Don't make me get cranky.
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