Minimap button capture nuisance

[clovis6780]

I am calling this a bug, because I feel like it's an unintentional behavior.

I'm using Archy to aid me in archaeology. It actually approaches the borderline of fun instead of well into suck. One of the options of Archy is that it will show blobs of overlay when you arrive at the dig site. This option doesn't work when Carbonite's opt["MapMMButOwn"]==true, but it does work when it's false.

Also, Archy can show dots for where you have gotten your findings previously. This works whether the mentioned option is true or false, with this exception: when you're stationary, these dots get taken by the minimap button capture. When you move again, the dots return to normal. Similar behavior for Archy's POI arrows indicating where the various dig sites are.

I've looked into the code for both Carbonite and Archy, and can't come up with a solution. I realize it may not be completely Carbonite's fault, but I've noticed other behaviors of Carbonite which make it so it doesn't play well especially with other map-modding addons.

[jeffy162]

Originally Posted by clovis6780 I am calling this a bug, because I feel like it's an unintentional behavior. I'm using Archy to aid me in archaeology. It actually approaches the borderline of fun instead of well into suck. One of the options of Archy is that it will show blobs of overlay when you arrive at the dig site. This option doesn't work when Carbonite's opt["MapMMButOwn"]==true, but it does work when it's false. Also, Archy can show dots for where you have gotten your findings previously. This works whether the mentioned option is true or false, with this exception: when you're stationary, these dots get taken by the minimap button capture. When you move again, the dots return to normal. Similar behavior for Archy's POI arrows indicating where the various dig sites are. I've looked into the code for both Carbonite and Archy, and can't come up with a solution. I realize it may not be completely Carbonite's fault, but I've noticed other behaviors of Carbonite which make it so it doesn't play well especially with other map-modding addons.

No, Carbonite doesn't "play well" with a lot of the map addons. It really shouldn't have to (this is my personal opinion), either. It provides its' own map and when Carbonites minimized map is combined with the Blizzard Minimap, you get the active node indicator on the Carbonite minimized map, along with all of the other information that Carbonite puts on its' own map.

That being said, please make sure that your copies of both Archy and Carbonite are current and up-to-date.

I know that there was a problem with the two addons doing this when "Archy" was first released, but I thought that was corrected.

I don't, personally, have that problem since I don't use Carbonites button window. I prefer Minimap Button Frame, simply because I feel it is more "flexible". It doesn't pick up anything from "Archy", either. Well, not any more. It also did when "Archy" was first released, but there is a way in MBF's options to exclude it from picking things up that it shouldn't.

By the way: I've never seen an option like "["MapMMButOwn"]==true" in Carbonite, but, I'm guessing that's what it would look like in Carbonites "SavedVariables" file if you choose to use Carbonites button window.

[clovis6780]

Originally Posted by jeffy162 By the way: I've never seen an option like "["MapMMButOwn"]==true" in Carbonite, but, I'm guessing that's what it would look like in Carbonites "SavedVariables" file if you choose to use Carbonites button window.

It's mentioned on lines 168 and 7601 of AddOns\Carbonite\Carbonite.lua and elsewhere. In the SV, it is found as NxData["NXGOpts"]["MapMMButOwn"].

I wonder why you say it shouldn't have to play well with other addons. The scope of what it affects should be limited to the scope of the things it's intended to do. This of course should include hiding vanilla frames and such, as it does, and notably should exclude messing up other addons.

And since you mentioned it, if this other addon--Minimap Button Frame--doesn't mess up Archy, then why should Carbonite?

[jeffy162]

Originally Posted by clovis6780 It's mentioned on lines 168 and 7601 of AddOns\Carbonite\Carbonite.lua and elsewhere. In the SV, it is found as NxData["NXGOpts"]["MapMMButOwn"].

OK. I've never looked through the Lua code to see what the options are. I just pick and choose what options I want enabled in Carbonites options window. I don't do anything with the code because I just don't know enough about it.

Originally Posted by clovis6780 I wonder why you say it shouldn't have to play well with other addons. The scope of what it affects should be limited to the scope of the things it's intended to do. This of course should include hiding vanilla frames and such, as it does, and notably should exclude messing up other addons.

Well, if you are trying to use two different addons to do the exact same thing, I'm pretty sure there's going to be problems. Perhaps not always, but it can happen.

Originally Posted by clovis6780 And since you mentioned it, if this other addon--Minimap Button Frame--doesn't mess up Archy, then why should Carbonite?

My guess it's a huge difference in the coding of the two addons. Minimap Button Frame's only job is to collect the buttons that surround the default minimap. It might be somewhat easier to modify its' code to solve problems of that nature. I don't really know, of course, I'm only guessing.

Oh, yeah. Minimap Button Frame never did mess up Archy. It was sort of the other way around. Archy got released, and MBF started gathering the Archy "blobs" from the minimap. It was, if I remember correctly, a combination of the way both were coded. Something about the way Archy's blobs were coded and something about the way MBF determined what was a minimap button. Whatever. It was corrected and it works.

I'm curious. How do Archy and Carbonite get along if they are the only two enabled addons?

By-the-way: Please forgive me if I am getting the wrong impression, but, I am not one of Carbonites developers. I am a Carbonite user and have been for about two years now. I come to these forums to try to help other Carbonite user's with their Carbonite problems. I don't know everything there is to know about Carbonite, but I try to help with problems I do know something about.

[clovis6780]

I did already understand that you weren't a developer before I wrote that last post, which is partly why I wondered why you said that it doesn't need to play well with other addons.

But see, as you said:

My guess it's a huge difference in the coding of the two addons. Minimap Button Frame's only job is to collect the buttons that surround the default minimap. It might be somewhat easier to modify its' code to solve problems of that nature. I don't really know, of course, I'm only guessing.

This is true by virtue of how it was composed. It was easier to edit for this reason, and the addon's scoping--that its sole purpose was to minimap buttons off, so it should do that well. One of the main tenets of good programming practice is that a program does one thing, and does that one thing well. I believe that carries over to addons too, as it does involve programming.

Sometimes many "one things" are so closely related to others, they essentially overlap, and it's acceptable that all of the desired functionality is lumped in together. I get that. But usually, the addon does well in whatever the scope of that addon is. In this case, it's understandable that Carbonite has an option to pull minimap buttons off the minimap, as some of its functionality is to put the minimap into its map, and a huge segment of Carbonite's scope is the map element. But shouldn't it be obvious that POI arrows and blobs are NOT minimap buttons? How many users have only one addon that might manipulate the minimap or that might add minimap elements?

Another annoyance that I've observed is that sometimes the blobs are drawn outside of the map window when I'm in one dig site and there's another one near enough by that both show up. I feel like the Carbonite developers simply ignored the possibility that minimap elements might be drawn outside the ordinary minimap area.

[jeffy162]

Originally Posted by clovis6780 Another annoyance that I've observed is that sometimes the blobs are drawn outside of the map window when I'm in one dig site and there's another one near enough by that both show up. I feel like the Carbonite developers simply ignored the possibility that minimap elements might be drawn outside the ordinary minimap area.

That's not a function of Carbonites map. It's a function of the way in which "Archy" draws its' boundary blobs.

[clovis6780]

It is certainly something between them.

1. It is Archy's fault in the case that--if Carbonite isn't running--the blobs still show up outside the minimap. I haven't tried it, but I kinda doubt that it does. I'll try to remember to test it next time.

2. It is Carbonite's fault if the above is not true, because it should limit the display of minimap elements to either the boundary of the minimap segment (the circle or square--whichever--which shows the blips of mines and fishing nodes, and that sort of thing) or the boundary of the overall Carbonite map window.

Example: The stray blob appears in the center top of this screenshot, and another overextends the map area in the top right.

[jeffy162]

Originally Posted by clovis6780 2. It is Carbonite's fault if the above is not true, because it should limit the display of minimap elements to either the boundary of the minimap segment (the circle or square--whichever--which shows the blips of mines and fishing nodes, and that sort of thing) or the boundary of the overall Carbonite map window.

My guess is that Carbonite can't limit something it has no control over. IE: Archy is drawing the boundary blobs on the Blizzard minimap, not the Carbonite map, and I'm thinking (perhaps wrongly) that this happens because of how Carbonite uses, or modifies(?), the Blizzard minimap. I remember seeing somewhere that Blizzard uses some kind of mask to make the minimap round (but I could always be remembering incorrectly), and it is possible that Carbonite either removes that mask or modifies it in some way and that is allowing the Archy blobs to extend outside of the Blizzard minimaps "area". However, without removing or modifying the mask, merging the maps would probably either not work at all, or not work very well.

This is, of course, all supposition on my part. Also, please bear in mind that things of this nature (Archy's blobs) weren't being used at the time Carbonite was originally coded. As time becomes available for the Carbonite developers (there are only two left of the original development team of, I believe, five members), I am sure they will repair the addon to where it has full functionality once again. We're just going to have to "bite the bullet" until that happens, I guess.

[Othgar]

From the looks of the screenie, I would have to say that it looks like Archy is drawing the blobs on the full sized carbonite map, and it doesn't recognize that the carbonite map is docked. I'm guessing that not merging the minimap with the carbonite map might fix some if not all of this behavior. I've used carbonite for several years now but I have always used a different addon for the minimap becuase of some of the wierdness caused between carbonite and other minimap affecting addons.

Just a guess and I did just crawl out of bed so I might have missed something, but I would try not merging the maps and see if this still occurs. If it doesn't then it's just Archy not recognizing the way carbonite handles the docking of the map to minimap size.

Also this could have something to do with the fact that (if I remember correctly) addon cannot directly draw anything on the minimap, but tracking blobs like those from Archy can be drawn on the full sized world map....just a thought and I might not be right about that one either..it's too early to think analytically.

[clovis6780]

The blob functionality of Archy is only so that it'll show up on the minimap. Already, the vanilla map includes the blob, so if Archy was putting blobs on the main map (not the minimap), it would be wasting time. Surely it is something that affects only the minimap. As such, it should be limited to the window of the minimap--be it Carbonite's smaller minimap area or the wider scope which includes all of Carbonite's map window. But it shouldn't overextend Carbonite's map window.

And Othgar, if Archy recognized Carbonite and used Carbonite's specific map element, why would it be written to draw past the limits of that map element?

[Othgar]

Originally Posted by clovis6780 And Othgar, if Archy recognized Carbonite and used Carbonite's specific map element, why would it be written to draw past the limits of that map element?

I'm not really sure unless there's something with the way carbonite handles resizing the map window frame that is making Archy act as it is (i.e. Archy doesn't recognize that the carb map window can be resized and it's not resizing it's overlay with the map). Just a thought and it's entirely possible I'm way off about it. I'll install Archy and take a look at it and see if I have similar issues.

EDIT: Ok I did some playing around. This isn't just an issue with Archy and Carbonite. I disabled Carbonite completely and still had this problem. It looks like if you set the Arrival Distance lower then it will not show the blobs off the minimap. I set it to 115 or below and they stayed inside the minimap border. It appears as if it's set up so that if the arrival distance is set high then it acts almost like a HUD. Not sure if this is how Torhal intended it or not but it is what it is I guess.

[clovis6780]

You're right. It is somewhere between Archy and the vanilla UI (or whatever map addon). I mean, if it's Carbonite's failure to scope the display of the blobs, it's the vanilla UI's fault as well. So I think it's only right to chalk it up to Archy on this point. I'm very surprised. Oh well.