I'm speechless over the reaction and hate :(

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Lily.Petal How old? ;D Just teasin'~

Oh you....

[sakurakira]

Originally Posted by tinyu the general rule of thumb is if your want to roll on gear for a Off Spec thats a Greed role Main Spec is Need.

Sorry, but with the enchanting system the way it is now, that can no longer be the "rule of thumb." If you want something for OS and roll greed out of politeness, there is a strong likelihood that it will be sharded.

And no, I don't accept asking people and such while rolls are going on, because as the OPs post shows, people don't actually read chat.

My usual thing is to roll greed on something I find interesting. If it's sharded, well no huge loss for me. If I have to roll need on something for an OS, I will say so. I haven't done many of the troll dungeons, so most of my runs and rolls are on blues many people don't want anyway. If someone asked for a piece I rolled "needing for os" on, I would probably trade it to them (I suppose it would depend on what kind of a jerk the were earlier in the run).

[humfras]

I'd like to answer this question if I may in two ways. Firstly in my normal voice and then in a kind of silly high-pitched whine...

1.
Your intention to join the group was loot. This was the same for the 2 DKs.
You choose to queue as Tank because you like to and will get an instant invite and some bonus loot. The two DKs had the same choice to sign up as Tanks but choosed to queue up as dps only, hoping for dps loot.

In a balanced group, everyone has the same right for rolling on gear as any other.

But what does 'balanced' mean?
- As DD, your focus is to dps and do not die or even wipe your group. CC / CS is welcome.
- As a healer, your focus is to heal inevitable damage on the group. You are not the heal bitch to compensate other/your own faults but you will have to.
- As a tank, your focus is to hold aggro, serve the dps a good goal (spot, ae effects) and to coordinate an encounter.

So, without taking the following line-up too serious, this means
Tank > heal > dps
in question of work performed.

So why I ask, WHY shouldn't a tank roll on dps gear?
Especially if he pointed it out at the beginning with nobody giving him a serious answer or stating their disagreement.

As a hybrid class, you are not bound to spec, especially not in a pug.

Nobody is forced to play his hybrid class as Tank but deciding to do so is the logical conclusion of its considerable advantages.

It was mentioned that tanks could force the group into giving them loot etc.
This is not true. Of course, Tanks have a big influence on the groups success, none of its members is forced to fulfill the Tank's egoistic intentions.
That's what the ability to leave or vote-kick is about.
If you are a pure dps, re-queuing or kicking the Tank may be a potential drawback BUT if one of the dps is a Tank/dps-hybrid, it is their opportunity to develop in the game and get some fine loots.


2.
For some new-age players, gear is above everything now it seems to me.
Getting decent gear never was as easy as today.
It is the lack of FEELING and ACTING as a group that destructs the dungeon experience. /agree haylie
In classic, we all used to be in the same boat, making success a consequence of our team-play. Loot was the reward for the time and nerves spend into this.
My reason for playing this game is to have fun with friends and people who may become friends and delight myself with candy (loot, progress, achievements). And there is enough candy for everyone, you just have to choose a successful way to get it.

I hope this isn't too confusing but I was in a rush.

Originally Posted by sakurakira My usual thing is to roll greed on something I find interesting. If it's sharded, well no huge loss for me. If I have to roll need on something for an OS, I will say so. I haven't done many of the troll dungeons, so most of my runs and rolls are on blues many people don't want anyway. If someone asked for a piece I rolled "needing for os" on, I would probably trade it to them (I suppose it would depend on what kind of a jerk the were earlier in the run).

I am handling it the same way and I think it is one of the best ways.

[kasca]

I guess ill jump in on this.

I roll for off spec all the time. Being duel spec it a must. All most ever guy i have is duel spec.
But having said that:
1) i ask
2) i look at other guys gear score. It way over mine (if he in that spec) screw it iam not sorry to need.

For myself having been in groups where somone gos nuts over __ needs for a off. Ask moron,show what u be replaceing. Maybe they give it to you. I for one whin someone gos crazy i jump on the other side. You want to be a buthole so leave.

I get more pissed ot the ninja that seems to be getting worse. Nothing make my night than a clothie needed at end for plate he cant use.

[Dridzt]

Blizzard: "If the need button is enabled you can press it".

GMs and CMs have on numerous occasions posted that being able to do something and choosing to doing it are two separate things.
And while some players loot behavior can be unsavory, inconsiderate, annoying and eventually unproductive for the community and the player themselves in the long run,
they are not actionable offenses.

The first category of players doesn't go any further than that to get justification.
"If it's not actionable and not against the game rules I do what I want and you can shove it".
Their "motive" might be:
- I'm an enchanter I shouldn't /roll for mats, hence I need everything I can and d/e.
- I want the gear for my off-spec or my re-spec.
- I'm poor and need items I won't use for vendor (mainly lower levels).
-
Motive doesn't matter really, the bottom-line is "I can; so fu".

Everything that doesn't fall directly under this category is "rules" the community makes for itself.
This is in part a social game and players form behaviors based on ethics ("Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"), peer pressure, intelligence in regards to long term benefits.

Me:
1. I need on gear that's an upgrade for the role I'm currently playing.
2. I ask if I can need on off-spec gear and/or wait to see other rolls.
3. I'm happy to provide my dis-enchanting services to other players in the group and press d/e along-side them when neither #1 or #2 apply.
(not all groups have an enchanter, but mine always have one; me.
In the long run I have much more shards than any non-enchanter.
I don't need to be a dick to ensure that: I provide an extra button in the loot frame they provide the dps-ing/healing/tanking that got that loot frame to pop up)

It hasn't stopped me gearing up my main spec OR my off spec or having more enchanting mats than I can use,
and feel good about myself on top.

There is another group of players that hovers somewhere in between:
Kinda like bargaining where is the line between self-entitled ego-trip and good Samaritan.
"I signed up both as tank and dps so I can roll on both roles, no matter what I'm playing"
(paladins then can need on heal/melee/tank and druids can need on heal/melee/ranged/tank)
Everyone else in the party knows what you signed up as... it's right there next to your name - oh wait .. it's not.
"It's 5man, who cares, you'll get it next time / replace it with better gear"
Well obviously you care enough to press that need button.
Some players are not raiders for whatever reason, their end-game stops at that heroic lockout.
These and similar are lame excuses it's better to just be sincere and line up under category #1 ("I can so fu")

This is my general take on the situation, not a reply to the OP specifically.
If a player announced they will roll need on their off-spec throughout the dungeon at the start of the run I would:
- either tell them it's not ok and wait for their response before dropping group or initiating a vote-kick.
- tell them it's "ok for me, don't need anything here" (which is the case for all heroic 5mans atm) but still click the "yes" button if another player in the group objects and initiates a kick.
I obviously wouldn't insult them in either case.

[Seerah]

Originally Posted by kasca I get more pissed ot the ninja that seems to be getting worse. Nothing make my night than a clothie needed at end for plate he cant use.

In the LFG groups, a clothie can't need a plate item. The need button is disabled.

[tinyu]

Originally Posted by Seerah In the LFG groups, a clothie can't need a plate item. The need button is disabled.

unless the item is BoE.