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Old 04-19-09, 06:40 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
That smily is cute :P
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Old 04-19-09, 08:04 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Shirik View Post
Just to clarify, actually several different applications will be maintained because of one of the components being OS-specific and architecture-specific, however to the user this will be transparent -- the installer and updater will figure out which OS/architecture combination will be appropriate and install it accordingly.

To the user, there is only one program. However the fact that there are actually multiple ones, bugs might pop up only for one OS or architecture (this has already happened once).
Thanks Shirik, I personally would assume that, but judging from his question he is an end user, and would not care the specifics.

But you know what they say when you ASSume
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Old 04-19-09, 06:16 PM   #123
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no mac support? GG a-holes
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Old 04-19-09, 06:29 PM   #124
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umm... no mac support for what? The current updater has a mac version and the new updater will have a mac version, as has been mentioned, like, 3 times already in the last 10 posts.
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Old 04-20-09, 05:02 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Seerah View Post
hoho, it's not even released yet.
You mean the client or addon-writing interface? If it's the interface I could somewhat understand, though delaying the interace development would be a mistake. If you want to forbid the possibility of writing addons before the client is released then you are making a huge mistake in my opinion.

You know that Curse has their own (relatively bad) addon manager. As more time passes it will get better until at one point they probably won't care about supporting other applications at all.



People were talking about being able to help develop if it would be put up to SVN (or any versioning system). I'd gladly refresh my Java knowledge and help with developing update plugins for other sites if needed. For example there are tons of addons not hosted on wowi/curse that are actively used by lots of people. I probably won't have too much time in the next few weeks when I'm progressing in Ulduar but once things quiet down a bit I should be able to help.
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Old 04-20-09, 05:11 AM   #126
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You mean the client or addon-writing interface? If it's the interface I could somewhat understand, though delaying the interace development would be a mistake. If you want to forbid the possibility of writing addons before the client is released then you are making a huge mistake in my opinion.
Hoho... you made absolutely no sense.

You can still write and upload addons to WoWI, Curse, etc before this is released.

EDIT: Or do you mean plugins to the client?
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Old 04-20-09, 05:39 AM   #127
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Yes, I meant the plugins to the addon manager. When I said "interface" there I was talking about the coding interface that sits between the core of updater and plugins themselves.

The more people get to play with the addon-interface before the manager gets launced the more bugs will get ironed out. I've learnt that a long time ago when writing my applications. A single developer simply can't find lots of bugs and there are always tons of things that can be done better, just the original developer might not have thought of them. The sooner the code gets opened to public the better.
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Old 04-20-09, 05:41 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by hoho View Post
Yes, I meant the plugins to the addon manager. It simply doesn't make any sense to me to have it released with only one plugin that supports wowi.

The more people get to play with the addon-interface before the manager gets launced the more bugs will get ironed out. I've learnt that a long time ago when writing my applications. A single developer simply can't find lots of bugs and there are always tons of things that can be done better, just the original developer might not have thought of them. The sooner the code gets opened to public the better.
Give it time Hoho. They'll probably release the API at the same time they start the beta-test cycle (Or thats what I would do if I was writing this thing)
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Old 04-20-09, 06:33 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Bomyne View Post
Give it time Hoho. They'll probably release the API at the same time they start the beta-test cycle (Or thats what I would do if I was writing this thing)
Well, my whole point was that it would be nice if people could start working with the plugin API before the beta so that more bugs could be worked out.
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Old 04-20-09, 06:46 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by hoho View Post
Well, my whole point was that it would be nice if people could start working with the plugin API before the beta so that more bugs could be worked out.
But betas ARE for working out bugs

It is most likely still in alpha because the framework is not stable enough to develop modules. It would not be nice to start developing a module for an unstable framework to only find out later that the fix for being unstable means you have to re-write the module.

I know that in the WoW world, we often encounter the perpetual "beta". However, I do not believe that is the case here. When it goes to beta that means it is ready (or they think it is ready) for module writers to use the API in a reasonable stable state.
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Old 04-20-09, 06:48 AM   #131
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Sorry for going offtopic but Maul, your sig is ace.
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Old 04-20-09, 08:31 AM   #132
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Post Windows vs Macs

Originally Posted by Bomyne View Post
From what I understand, as long as the platform supports Java, this updater will work.
Not necessarily, sometimes there are some little difference between Windows and Macs(and *nix) that makes part of an application not work correctly(like trying to create a file in the /tmp folder... but such folder does not exist in windows normally). But the application will start regardless of the platform... as long as you have a Java Virtual Machine installed.(might aggain have some bugs if this application uses libraries from 1.6 but you have 1.5 installed but usually the binaries[read .jar or .class] don't need to be compiled for each platform).


ah the joys of Java... cross-platform but still requires a bit of coding to make things work in all platforms.

now back to work for me... Stupid last exam...
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Old 04-20-09, 08:33 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Ceridan View Post
Not necessarily, sometimes there are some little difference between Windows and Macs(and *nix) that makes part of an application not work correctly(like trying to create a file in the /tmp folder... but such folder does not exist in windows normally). But the application will start regardless of the platform... as long as you have a Java Virtual Machine installed.(might aggain have some bugs if this application uses libraries from 1.6 but you have 1.5 installed but usually the binaries[read .jar or .class] don't need to be compiled for each platform).


ah the joys of Java... cross-platform but still requires a bit of coding to make things work in all platforms.

now back to work for me... Stupid last exam...
I'm no Java programer but I was under the impression that Java accounted for that directory thing.
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Old 04-20-09, 08:40 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Bomyne View Post
I'm no Java programer but I was under the impression that Java accounted for that directory thing.
Well perhaps... I did not have time when I needed a cross platform implementation in one of my recent school projects, I needed to put something in the %TMP% folder in windows... but I also needed to make it possible on macs and *nix... So I made a small class to act as a OS checker... It's possible however that the Java API provides an abstract class to do the same thing...

(sometimes libraries uses OS specific implementations that further reduce the ability to do cross-platform... unless you create an abstract layer to allow a more OS specific implementations but then you will need to use libraries for the other OSes...).

Last edited by Ceridan : 04-20-09 at 08:48 AM. Reason: weird structure in a paragraph
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Old 04-20-09, 09:51 AM   #135
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Shirik has already been gathering a few people to test writing modules for the module system, but, as Maul stated, it's still in Alpha - something might change that would change the API.

alpha = unstable, unfinished, changing code, with bugs that effect usability
beta = all the core stuff from the alpha is in place, greater test audience to find bugs, any expansion of the core may be tested/put into place
release = done, finished, released. Only maintenance work from here on out unless new features are added.
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Old 04-20-09, 10:51 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Maul View Post
It is most likely still in alpha because the framework is not stable enough to develop modules. It would not be nice to start developing a module for an unstable framework to only find out later that the fix for being unstable means you have to re-write the module.
This is mostly correct.

There have been a few cases so far where I've had to adjust the API and it would break things in the process. My primary objective is that once beta is released, only backwards-compatible changes to the API will be necessary. The primary reason for this is that when a module causes a VM error (note the difference between the Exception and Error classes in the Java documentation) such as NoSuchMethodError, it can potentially break the auto-updating portion of the client, leaving the user in a pretty bad position. (In a best-case scenario this just means losing the configuration of the program. In a worst-case scenario, it means having to reinstall. I don't find either of those options to be acceptable.)

Once we're in beta, the API will be finalized. Any changes I make to it will be backwards compatible so that old modules can still be supported. I will think about releasing the API ahead of time but I want to make very clear that if I do in fact do this, then at least until beta is released, everything is subject to change significantly.
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Old 04-20-09, 12:26 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Shirik View Post
Once we're in beta, the API will be finalized. Any changes I make to it will be backwards compatible so that old modules can still be supported
It would kind of suck to have to support potentially bad API for undetermined time just because it didn't get enough testing. Alpha is where base design is made as solid as possible including all kinds of API's. Betas are for fixing bugs, not changing/fixing API
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Old 04-20-09, 12:28 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by hoho View Post
It would kind of suck to have to support potentially bad API for undetermined time just because it didn't get enough testing. Alpha is where base design is made as solid as possible including all kinds of API's. Betas are for fixing bugs, not changing/fixing API
You misunderstand. When in beta, the API will no longer be changed without any form of compatibility. This is one of the reasons that we aren't in beta yet.
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Old 04-20-09, 02:11 PM   #139
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Thumbs up

Any chance of the new updater having an option similar to the Curse Client and the old Ace Updater to install libraries separately instead of being embedded? Having no embedded libraries makes my wow start up a bit faster.

And on another note, you should release the beta asap
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Old 04-20-09, 02:14 PM   #140
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As always, we don't touch authors' files. So if they include all the libraries in their zip, you get all the libraries when you download it via our updater.

[Edit] Shirik may know how to get around this without having to actually touch the authors' files, I don't know. I should actually be leaving this question for him to answer
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