nUI's considered response to Bliz's new addon guidelines...

[Cairenn]

^^

extra text

[Equestrian]

Correct me if I am going down the wrong road here.

I don't see where it is against policy to write an addon and just let your friends use it. Would Blizz care how you picked your friends?

I mean hey, you're a nice guy. You should have thousands of friends.....

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by Equestrian Correct me if I am going down the wrong road here. I don't see where it is against policy to write an addon and just let your friends use it. Would Blizz care how you picked your friends? I mean hey, you're a nice guy. You should have thousands of friends.....

According to the threads at the official WoW UI forum... a few thousand enemies too.

~grin~

[Tehryn]

Originally Posted by spiel2001 According to the threads at the official WoW UI forum... a few thousand enemies too. ~grin~

Doesn't it make you feel great to be so popular?

ROFL!

[Kimmik]

Originally Posted by vewdew2 Me too (just donated). Actually, I didn't even know there was a pro version until now. I'm one of those lazy people who gets his updates through wowmatrix.

Oh no WOW MATRIX is the bad... it steals bandwidth from places like here... and does not respect the authors wishes... Helps support the mod community by avoiding them... even if it is a pain to click and up date manually... please and thank you.

[Xrystal]

Originally Posted by Martinus Hello Scott, Very happy that nUI will live. When ya sent the e-mail with the title "The death of nUI..." That kinda freaked me out. I even tried to play wow in the default UI. Ish! Can't go back lol. Soo I'm a very happy player. Don't give up! WE NEED YOU! Martin

Oh my .. thats exactly the way I feel about the standard UI. Seeing the multiple UIs out there with nUI being my personal favorite there is only one way I'd go back to the standard interface. If every single addon in the world stopped working and I hadn't figured out how to write one myself. Rofl

I shift between the UK (my home) and US (my fiances home) and have a computer in each house. He uses the one in the US when I'm not there and tends to wipe out or replace the addons with his own. I get there and log in and quickly log out so I can add my top favorites before I can even do my dailies.

[Sloth]

Well, I already send you a second donation, and I guess there will be a third with the next payday

Nice interpretation on the new policy btw, let's hope they won't force you to abandon that great project

[todd3835]

Originally Posted by Silenia I'll not debate the issue over weather or not the Carbonite Devs were wrong to offer a version with ads as I too feel that was stepping over the line. However, I will state with a certainty that they did not in any way shape or form "hide" your Social/Guild tab away simply because you weren't using the subscription version. You're no different than my roommate when he started using the free version and couldn't locate those tabs. Impatient and unwilling to take the time to look for an option to fix it. I had to show him where the option was to take those tabs out of a specific window and back where they normally are. In other words, those tabs were never taken away from you or hidden. They simply got placed in a different location. Had you chose to go over the options more carefully, you would of seen that. Edit: Nice. You openly admit to using a piece of software illegally without paying for it. WTG. That's stealing, and assuredly a slap in the face to any programmer who enjoys getting paid for their hard work.

Ok, to clarify, the tabs were indeed still there, but I couldn't use them without stretching the window. And when I did, as soon as i reloaded the UI or relogged, it no longer worked. To me, this breaks the interface that blizzard put in. Carbonite BROKE the functionality that was intended by blizzard. I should not have to go look for an option to fix something that an addon decided to one day go and change. Carbonite did not exhibite this behavior when I first installed it. If it did, I would not be as upset. But to go and hamper a basic feature of the game just because I'm using a free version is not the way to go about getting someone to donate or purchase an upgrade.

Secondly, if you read the post fully, the only reason I used a pro version was because there was no longer a free version availible that wasn't expired. I think this was intentionally done to get people that normally wouldn't have needed or wanted the pro version (like myself) to be forced to upgrade. These kind of shady companies are ones I will not do business with.

On a final note, had the authors of Carbonite not been so greedy, They would have gotten my donation money before Scott. No offence to Scott, but I've just been using Carbonite longer than nUI. If Carbonite was donationware instead of Shareware/Full, I'd have donated to them first. Even if there was a way to flat out purchase the full version with lifetime updates. I think a subscription model for an addon is a bit much. This is the reason I chose to stay with the free version of Carbonite (not to mention I didn't need the features of the pro version).

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by Xrystal I shift between the UK (my home) and US (my fiances home) and have a computer in each house. He uses the one in the US when I'm not there and tends to wipe out or replace the addons with his own. I get there and log in and quickly log out so I can add my top favorites before I can even do my dailies.

If you have extra room on the hard drive, you can make a second copy of the WoW folder and place your own addons in that one. Easy as pie to create a secondary shortcut to that folders Launcher.exe (right click, choose Send To - Desktop - Create Shortcut) and then rename that shortcut so you know it's yours. I normally always have two copies of the game... one for regular play and the other for testing new addons.

[orionthehunter]

Posting on forums is a good place to start but directly letting Blizzard know your feelings is even better in my opinion. Put your feelings right into their mailbox. WoWUI@blizzard.com

[havoxx]

Originally Posted by Tehryn What is behind the reason to disallow mod authors to charge for their mod or kindly ask for a donation? Is it to maintain a level playing field, i.e. those who cannot/will not pay for a mod should not be disadvantaged as far as playability is concerned (this assumes that donated to/paid for addons actually give an advantage)? If that's the reason than I'll just continue to scratch my head that Blizzard is going after a "soft target", while at the same time still allowing gold selling. After all these years Blizzard hasn't found a way to stop these guys dead in their tracks. Why? Is there someone(s) higher up who's leaning on them to look the other way? 0r do they secretly see gold selling as beneficial to the WoW community? I would have thought that Blizzard would consult with the addon authors instead of dropping a bomb on them.

Been a little while since I posted here, Sorry to hear about your issue Speil, I hope you can get through it.

As for the gold, remember the reality here, addon authors make addons, make the game more fun, but gold sellers, they have 20-30 different paid accounts, while they make money, they also spend a lot of it giving it to blizzard, they won't shut them down. Addon authors are "technically" only getting paid to write the addon, and blizzard is really stupid on things like this, and they won't allow it.

This is why you can't sell your account on eBay, because it's all "profit" it's really all a jumbled mess of business crap.

[Doubleosix]

I hope this is just a matter of Blizzard covering their asses. If so most of this will blow over. One thing I can see Blizzard worrying about is being sued for stealing an addon author's idea and implementing it in the game, their by removing their lively hood. I really hope this is just a big show from them.

I will be fine with what ever way you chose to circumvent this for now.

I am quite capable of coding my self. Just to lazy and would take away from playing WOW. So I pay for others to do it. That is the way the world works.

[Xrystal]

Originally Posted by Silenia If you have extra room on the hard drive, you can make a second copy of the WoW folder and place your own addons in that one. Easy as pie to create a secondary shortcut to that folders Launcher.exe (right click, choose Send To - Desktop - Create Shortcut) and then rename that shortcut so you know it's yours. I normally always have two copies of the game... one for regular play and the other for testing new addons.

*slaps head* .. its always the simple things that get me .. thanks for the idea. I have tons of room on that drive to have one per 80 toon I have

Well, the next trip over there should be the final one with a proper visa pending marriage etc so will not be a problem anymore but would have been handy the last few years

[Tehryn]

Originally Posted by havoxx Been a little while since I posted here, Sorry to hear about your issue Speil, I hope you can get through it. As for the gold, remember the reality here, addon authors make addons, make the game more fun, but gold sellers, they have 20-30 different paid accounts, while they make money, they also spend a lot of it giving it to blizzard, they won't shut them down. Addon authors are "technically" only getting paid to write the addon, and blizzard is really stupid on things like this, and they won't allow it. This is why you can't sell your account on eBay, because it's all "profit" it's really all a jumbled mess of business crap.

It makes Blizzard look like a bunch of hypocrites.

Addon authors have, through their mods, contributed enormously to the enjoyment and success of the game. A happy player is a player who keeps playing thereby adding to the already well-filled Blizzard coffers. Pissing off the authors by dropping this bomb on them (and indirectly us addon users) smacks of a lack of disrespect, not to mention stupidity.

Again, in my opinion, they have no moral right to go after the addon authors in this manner while allowing gold selling and buying to prosper.

[seebs]

I don't think Blizzard can be usefully said to "allow" gold selling; they've banned tons of accounts, and they are pretty aggressive about tracking things down.

Not-successfully-eliminating isn't the same thing as allowing.

[todd3835]

I had a thought about the whole gold farming issue. I know this may sound a bit funny, but imagine the people selling Valor Bracers. At 2k a pop generally on my server, I can imagine that's a pretty easy way to farm some quick cash. Now I know you can't get enough tokens every week (think it's like 2 to 3 weeks if you get every lockout) but imagine if your doing it on multiple toons/accts, and it's easy to see how quickly you could be making cash. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they are BoE for people like me that would take a year to casually get enough valor emblems to equip my toon, but I also imagine there's alot of farmers gold coming from these valor bracers also.......

[wreck]

So many thoughts so little time.

First of all, the above person who used the pro version of Carbonite was not stealing anything. Blizzard has made it clear that the Carbonite devs cannot sell a pro version. I suspect that is a big part of the reason for Blizzards policy. The Carbonite devs cannot claim theft by doing something that Blizzard says is against the EULA. To so do WILL get them shut down.

Second, the policy is in place to avoid just what was described. Having third party add-ons popping up ads and nags deteriorates the WoW experience. As much as the add on authors think Blizzard owes them, it is Blizzard who provides the game, and Blizzard who owns the game. Having annoying nags in the game causes customer ill-will towards Blizzard. And make no mistake about it, Blizzard gets complaints from ill-informed users who don't know the difference between an addon and the game. If you don't believe that, you have NEVER done tech support.

Third, Blizz has shut down thousands of gold farmers. You need to log out of WoW and read some of the news stories to see that. They take it seriously, and they go after them tooth and nail. The fact that they keep popping up is testament to the thousands of people who want to buy gold in WoW, despite Blizzards on going efforts to shut them down.

Fourth, Blizzards legal department costs more PER HOUR than your monthly mortgage/rent. Trust me when I say that they will enforce this policy. To them having add-on authors is less important than having a game that works properly and NO Ads/nags in game. I've been around the software and game industry long enough to know they won't wait for people to comply. They'll just send C&D orders and take down orders to places like WoW Interface. If WoW Interface and Curse.com decide to buck Blizzard, they will send Take Down orders to their ISPs. They will go up the chain until the problem is put to bed. That's what they have been doing to the gold farmers.

I love nUI and I love Scott for making it. I've also sent donations for both myself and my wife long before there was a Pro version. But I know the industry and I know Blizzard even better. Fight them all you want, they have a bigger hammer. You get a 10 pound hammer, they pull out a 500 pounder. You get a lawyer, they get 12. They don't care if it makes you mad and upsets the mod community. There are at least 9.5 million people who don't use your mod.

They will not allow you to keep the word "donation" in the login message. They won't allow you to have Pro and Lite versions.

I don't mean to be a doomsayer and I actually hope you win. I'm just saying you should figure on what you plan to do if Blizzard starts sending official letters.

Cause, you know, they will.

Good Luck Scott.

[spiel2001]

Originally Posted by wreck I don't mean to be a doomsayer and I actually hope you win. I'm just saying you should figure on what you plan to do if Blizzard starts sending official letters.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't think they will. They could, but I'm not sure they mean to be that aggressive. If they do, I'll modify my behavior accordingly and review my legal options as required.

I'm not trying to antagonize Bliz, really, I just trying to find a compromise.

One of the things I think that gets easily overlooked is this is NOT a parasitic relationship. I have a lot of e-mails in my inbox (I'm such a packrat) that specifically state "I was going to quit playing WoW before I found nUI" and similar statements.

Yes... I know I only have maybe 10,000 users or so in a sea of 10 million players, but it remains that there are a lot of people who are happier insider their WoW experience because I do what I do.

It is my personal belief, honestly, that Bliz just pulled the claymore out of the sheath to back off the crowd. Carbonite crossed the line bigtime and Bliz needed to pushback. Tacitly, they have reserved the right to swing the sword it you get too far across the line for them a second time.

I'm trying to keep my toes on my side of the line while still having an incentive to invest the time I do in this effort.

Am I making any kind of sense here? Or has four days without sleep turned my mind to mush?

[Tithulta]

Ive never used it...seen it, but wasnt sure what it did or anything and I was quite happy with the addons i used already. BUT after seeing screens on your site I may ahve to try the Lite version out when they kill my carbonite paid version. If nUI and I get along well enough I'll be more than happy to donate to keep it going...i mean hey I paid $36 for 3 accounts access to carbonite for a year,$49 for joana's guide and another $49 for brian kopps. Good Luck!

[wreck]

Note that nUI is not a replacement for Carbonite, nor is it meant to be. Carbonite (from what I've read) is mostly a Quest helper type of add on. nUI is a replacement for the entire WoW interface. Although I think Carbonite does some of that as well.

When they shut down Carbonite, I recommend QuestHelper. While the author has said he will probably have to shut down with the new policy, he is overreacting I think. He asks for donations, but he doesn't require them. No doubt the big problem Blizzard has is that Carbonite requires a fee for the Pro version, and even has popup nag screens in WoW if you are using the Lite version. As the publisher of WoW I could fully understand why that is NOT acceptable.