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Unread 05-24-09, 12:25 PM   #41
Bluspacecow
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Originally Posted by Vis View Post
My stance being that I truly enjoy the convenience (yup, I'm lazy and don't want to unzip them myself, even though I do know how) that updaters provide, but I also prefer to be an informed consumer by keeping tabs on what has changed and why. So before hitting the update/update all buttons I peruse the changelogs of any updated addons. Then make my decision on what to update.
I'm actually thinking of evolving my addon strategy further.

Each maintenance day I update. These happen every 2 weeks so they are spaced far enough apart so my updating isn't ridiculously often. On these nights I've got nothing to do all night so it should fit in well. It's also easier to remember to do it on that night.

I'll use an updater client to see specifically what's addons have been updated - at the moment i get an email for each build submitted of an addon so a way to reduce the duplicate emails I look at would be good.

I'll still do my Major update/ Minor update thing by checking the change logs for the addons in question. I'll keep getting the addon update emails so they provide a good backup when I'm wanting to do a quick search of change logs.
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Unread 05-24-09, 03:05 PM   #42
Zaydok
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Well I would be careful about using the phrase "Russian Roulette", just because an update is minimal doesn't mean it is harmful. I usually check for updates daily so that I can stay on top of what is available and keep my raiders updated too. I only run into about 3 addons per year that actually glitch or break my UI and those can be disabled without even leaving the game. And as I said in a previous post that fixes are usually released before I have a chance to check for them. I am probably going to continue checking for updates daily via Minion once it is released unless WoWI releases some sort of statement asking us to limit our queries/downloads. And if they setup Minion's business model the right way (which I am confident they are) I just don't see that happening. And if there is at least one update available I might as well hit "Update All" instead of "Update Addon". I really don't feel like keeping up with a growing backlog of what I want to update and what I don't want to update as time passes.

Last edited by Zaydok : 05-24-09 at 03:08 PM.
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Unread 05-24-09, 03:27 PM   #43
Verissi
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Originally Posted by Eklypse View Post
Some of the extra updates might be minimal localization updates while others provide really cool new features and performance tweaks.
Personally, I look at changelogs religiously. Some may think it's silly or a waste of time, but frankly, if there are "cool new features" that have been added and it's a raid night for me, I don't want to risk those new features being buggy. Tanking and errors don't mix well.

I see a lot of generalisations about whether or not every update is a good thing, but I think it's all situational. Yes, a DBM/BigWigs update would be something I would like to have installed on raid night, but do I need the latest version of a questlog or fishing addon (for example) for my raid when I wouldn't be using it and mine was working just fine before? Probably not, and I could safely wait until later to update it. Bear in mind that, even if I don't have a use for that questlog/fishing addon in my raid, it still could cause problems. I think this is the kind of situation that honem is getting at...you run just as much "risk of experiencing problems" by updating right before a raid as you would if you had not updated at all...even moreso if you weren't experiencing problems before updating to begin with.

My personal take on updating is that I don't care if you use software to do it automagically or you do it by hand, but blind updating (e.g. without looking at changelogs at all) and saying it's good in every single case is somewhat foolish. I want to know what I'm installing and how the updates are going to affect my UI and playtime.
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Unread 05-24-09, 08:44 PM   #44
Zaydok
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Originally Posted by Verissi View Post
Personally, I look at changelogs religiously. Some may think it's silly or a waste of time, but frankly, if there are "cool new features" that have been added and it's a raid night for me, I don't want to risk those new features being buggy. Tanking and errors don't mix well.

I see a lot of generalisations about whether or not every update is a good thing, but I think it's all situational. Yes, a DBM/BigWigs update would be something I would like to have installed on raid night, but do I need the latest version of a questlog or fishing addon (for example) for my raid when I wouldn't be using it and mine was working just fine before? Probably not, and I could safely wait until later to update it. Bear in mind that, even if I don't have a use for that questlog/fishing addon in my raid, it still could cause problems. I think this is the kind of situation that honem is getting at...you run just as much "risk of experiencing problems" by updating right before a raid as you would if you had not updated at all...even moreso if you weren't experiencing problems before updating to begin with.

My personal take on updating is that I don't care if you use software to do it automagically or you do it by hand, but blind updating (e.g. without looking at changelogs at all) and saying it's good in every single case is somewhat foolish. I want to know what I'm installing and how the updates are going to affect my UI and playtime.
It takes me a minute to disable and addon and reload my UI if something is broken. I mean thank God addons aren't tattoos... they can be removed easily. So what risk is there?
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Unread 05-24-09, 09:51 PM   #45
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There are 2 underlying schools of thought at work here.

(1) Maximize in game time. Log in and no worries.

(2) Deal with the issue after the fact. Get logged in and playing as soon as possible.

[NOTE: These are personal observations. Not taken verbatim from comments]

Change log reading folks seem to be the majority of people who fall in to group 1 while update all frequently fall in to group 2.

The subtle irony of this is both parties are after convenience though on totally opposite sides of the coin. In an ideal situation you would be able to take any and all updates AND not have to disable anything due to new bugs after the fact.

And before either side of the debate tries to state that its not the case, take a moment and read all the comments again. I promise you'll get a little giggle out of it.

Not an attack on anyone, just a humorous observation.
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Last edited by MidgetMage55 : 05-24-09 at 09:53 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Unread 05-25-09, 02:07 AM   #46
Zaydok
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No I agree with you fully actually, and have been aware of it since the start of the "debate". My only issue with what was originally being posted was that the suggestion to only update add ons every blue moon. But another point is that even if you are a change log checker you'll still have to back out some addons once logging in. Last time I checked change logs didn't predict UI breaks/bugs/glitches unless they were alpha/beta releases. So really there is no such thing as group 1 as you have categorized. We all have to deal with backing out addons from time to time. You follow me?
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Unread 05-25-09, 02:45 AM   #47
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Does Minion have a "changlog" popup, a la Curse? If so, that's one click, and an additional box pops up with a neat, scrollable little box containing the changelog. If it's a go, hit update. If it's a Russian localization, skip it and move on. Seems like it could speed up your process, by pulling up the changelog without the fluff of a browser + webpage, plus the speedy and easy addon downloading/unpacking.

This isn't an "updaters rule, other methods drool" style post, but rather, a "how can one develop a new approach?" one.
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Unread 05-25-09, 12:03 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Eklypse View Post
No I agree with you fully actually, and have been aware of it since the start of the "debate". My only issue with what was originally being posted was that the suggestion to only update add ons every blue moon. But another point is that even if you are a change log checker you'll still have to back out some addons once logging in. Last time I checked change logs didn't predict UI breaks/bugs/glitches unless they were alpha/beta releases. So really there is no such thing as group 1 as you have categorized. We all have to deal with backing out addons from time to time. You follow me?
My post is about personal mentalities. Its a given fact that bugs and conflicts are a possibility. Thats why i referred to them as schools of thought.
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Unread 05-25-09, 12:50 PM   #49
Zaydok
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Originally Posted by MidgetMage55 View Post
My post is about personal mentalities. Its a given fact that bugs and conflicts are a possibility. Thats why i referred to them as schools of thought.
No, don't get me wrong. I understand what your post was. But you did bring up the whole two sides of the coin which reminded me that really "group 1" would not really be favored on either side. I get that you're staying out of the debate. I think everyone is at this point, but rather now explaining their logic so that others can understand why they do what they do.
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Unread 05-25-09, 02:19 PM   #50
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Being that i generally fall in to group 1 i can say from experience that i most certainly am favored on one side and not the other. A guild mate of mine falls in to category 2 and while he has some of the newest and slickest mods and/or updates he also tends to have to disable addons more frequently. [note: more frequently as in 3-4x a week where i havent had to disable an addon in over a month.] but he uses less memory and tends to be up to date on features that i may be missing.

Do you honestly think that people in group 1 would continue to do what they do if there was no advantage for them? Just because you dont see the benefit doesnt mean there isnt one. Same applies to people in the other direction. People generally find a style of doing things that gives them some sort of benefit while suiting their personality.

Ill explain myself as my example for 1. I have well over 200 addons (excluding sub folders for modules) I havent updated a single addon since patch week. I fixed what was broken. No bugs came from it so i havent bothered to update further. When i see a favorite has an update i take a peek out of curiosity and have passed over some new features that i didnt deem necessary to my needs. Are you implying that even in my current example (additional clarification below) that i gain no advantage/benefit from this?

Do i see an advantage/benefit from updating daily? Certainly. Is it something i personally deem necessary? No.

Will i use the updater when its released? Ill certainly give it a test. If it suits my needs then most definitely i will.

Since the point is obviously gone from a humorous observation to a debate Ill clarify then.

Group 1. Infrequent updates to minimize system impact getting only what they consider necessary.
Upside: More likely to be very stable with few to no bugs.
Downside: Could be missing new features. More likely to be using more memory/cpu cycles due to missing optimizations.

Group 2. Frequent updates to have any new feature and/or be as current as possible.
Upside: More likely to have an optimized system. More likely to have newer features sooner.
Downside: More likely to have bugs show up on a more frequent basis.

The issue i see in this entire debate is folks are talking in absolutes. This is far from reality. There are ALWAYS exceptions. We can nitpick all day little details about how this analogy or that one can be proven inaccurate on a case by case basis. Politics anyone? ><

In the end everyone will pick what they like and suits their way of doing things. Its a preference. If one version over another was that much of a benefit the majority would most likely (notice i dont speak in an absolute statement) use it. The benefits of any system of updating are utilized by an individual to suit their needs and personalities.

Ive avoided the debate as a whole (and i like to think the above reinforces this) because i dont see any HUGE difference in the end result of either system. Do I think updates needs to be done daily? Certainly not. Nor do i think that my way of doing things will satisfy anyone else. Im not anyone else so i cant speak for them. That however is MY way of looking at it. And thats the only person i can speak intelligently on.
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Unread 05-25-09, 05:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Eklypse View Post
It takes me a minute to disable and addon and reload my UI if something is broken. I mean thank God addons aren't tattoos... they can be removed easily. So what risk is there?
I'm not trying to argue against your preference, I'm just stating that mine is different. I don't see the value in having the latest features/changes/whatever right this second and can wait until I have more time to test things out. My personal experiences have taught me to be a bit more cautious with blind updating, but perhaps you've had better luck than I have.

Look, this isn't about "my way's better" to me...I believe each side has merit. I just choose to do things in a way that isn't how you choose to do it. Agree to disagree
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Unread 05-25-09, 05:16 PM   #52
Zaydok
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Originally Posted by MidgetMage55 View Post
Being that i generally fall in to group 1 i can say from experience that i most certainly am favored on one side and not the other. A guild mate of mine falls in to category 2 and while he has some of the newest and slickest mods and/or updates he also tends to have to disable addons more frequently. [note: more frequently as in 3-4x a week where i havent had to disable an addon in over a month.] but he uses less memory and tends to be up to date on features that i may be missing.

Do you honestly think that people in group 1 would continue to do what they do if there was no advantage for them? Just because you dont see the benefit doesnt mean there isnt one. Same applies to people in the other direction. People generally find a style of doing things that gives them some sort of benefit while suiting their personality.

Ill explain myself as my example for 1. I have well over 200 addons (excluding sub folders for modules) I havent updated a single addon since patch week. I fixed what was broken. No bugs came from it so i havent bothered to update further. When i see a favorite has an update i take a peek out of curiosity and have passed over some new features that i didnt deem necessary to my needs. Are you implying that even in my current example (additional clarification below) that i gain no advantage/benefit from this?

Do i see an advantage/benefit from updating daily? Certainly. Is it something i personally deem necessary? No.

Will i use the updater when its released? Ill certainly give it a test. If it suits my needs then most definitely i will.

Since the point is obviously gone from a humorous observation to a debate Ill clarify then.

Group 1. Infrequent updates to minimize system impact getting only what they consider necessary.
Upside: More likely to be very stable with few to no bugs.
Downside: Could be missing new features. More likely to be using more memory/cpu cycles due to missing optimizations.

Group 2. Frequent updates to have any new feature and/or be as current as possible.
Upside: More likely to have an optimized system. More likely to have newer features sooner.
Downside: More likely to have bugs show up on a more frequent basis.

The issue i see in this entire debate is folks are talking in absolutes. This is far from reality. There are ALWAYS exceptions. We can nitpick all day little details about how this analogy or that one can be proven inaccurate on a case by case basis. Politics anyone? ><

In the end everyone will pick what they like and suits their way of doing things. Its a preference. If one version over another was that much of a benefit the majority would most likely (notice i dont speak in an absolute statement) use it. The benefits of any system of updating are utilized by an individual to suit their needs and personalities.

Ive avoided the debate as a whole (and i like to think the above reinforces this) because i dont see any HUGE difference in the end result of either system. Do I think updates needs to be done daily? Certainly not. Nor do i think that my way of doing things will satisfy anyone else. Im not anyone else so i cant speak for them. That however is MY way of looking at it. And thats the only person i can speak intelligently on.
I don't think you have read all of the posts in this thread or you wouldn't be jumping to conclusions about what I was or wasn't inferring. It seems like you are lost to the full context of my replies as they apply to the overall discussion. I myself posted the same thing you just did above. To each their own and that everyone will find their own way, so please don't preach at me what I have already said from my original post.

Of course I understand that both systems have pros/cons. But if you want my honest opinion AGAIN, I truly believe that regular updates provides a better overall gaming experience, performance wise. And again I have to back out maybe 3 add ons per year and that was the case even before I used an auto updater. I don't think anyone is oblivious to variables here, so not sure why you feel absolution is prevalent in this discussion. /shrug
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Unread 05-25-09, 05:19 PM   #53
Zaydok
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Originally Posted by Verissi View Post
I'm not trying to argue against your preference, I'm just stating that mine is different. I don't see the value in having the latest features/changes/whatever right this second and can wait until I have more time to test things out. My personal experiences have taught me to be a bit more cautious with blind updating, but perhaps you've had better luck than I have.

Look, this isn't about "my way's better" to me...I believe each side has merit. I just choose to do things in a way that isn't how you choose to do it. Agree to disagree
Well said.
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Unread 05-25-09, 10:51 PM   #54
MidgetMage55
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Ive read your statements. Ive followed the thread. I was (attempting) replying solely to the statements in reply to mine. In your own words you stated that the "group 1" i described really wasnt favored on either side of the coin. Which i disagree with and I chose to clarify why each method has its benefits and why. If you hadnt claimed that i wouldnt have replied at all. It was simply an elaboration.

As is my usual way i tend to take elaboration to an extreme. Once i felt i had to go beyond my original comments i personally felt the need to put my full 2c in to qualify my statements. Though the core of my reply was in response to the above statement.

I dont feel you were inferring anything nor was i trying to preach at you or i would have said as much. If thats the tone you got from my statement then i apologize. It was not my intent. I had hoped my original bit of humor was self explanatory. I see now that it wasnt so i felt the need to to explain more for the masses reading this.
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Last edited by MidgetMage55 : 05-25-09 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Clarification.
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Unread 05-25-09, 11:43 PM   #55
Zaydok
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Meh, no worries.
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Unread 09-09-13, 05:04 AM   #56
mom2chris06
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I just got the add on We dont wipe and saw that today there is a new updated one due to Patch 5.04 coming out. It looks as if the only thing i will need to do is just change the module only since it was for my Elemental Shaman.

My questions is this, will i need to delete the module file, dl the new one, extract and put where it needs to go and change any wording on it with WOW not on and when i turn it back on for more gaming it will be done correctly? Sorry if i sound ignorant or dumb i have only used curse and like most others i do the automatic download. I want to make sure that i do it correctly and have a fun gaming experience.

Thanks for reading and for the answser,

Kimberley
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Unread 09-09-13, 06:39 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by mom2chris06 View Post
I just got the add on We dont wipe and saw that today there is a new updated one due to Patch 5.04 coming out. It looks as if the only thing i will need to do is just change the module only since it was for my Elemental Shaman.

My questions is this, will i need to delete the module file, dl the new one, extract and put where it needs to go and change any wording on it with WOW not on and when i turn it back on for more gaming it will be done correctly? Sorry if i sound ignorant or dumb i have only used curse and like most others i do the automatic download. I want to make sure that i do it correctly and have a fun gaming experience.

Thanks for reading and for the answer,

Kimberley
In most cases simply overwriting the old version with the new one is enough
Addon authors will usually specifically state if you need to delete an old version before updating.
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Unread 09-09-13, 08:21 AM   #58
Resike
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I'm an addon author since nearly 5 year long, and every release i push fix a bug add a new feature or simplify the code. Yes there are releases which only contains localization updates but if you don't play wow on english client that may fix stuff too.

Noone tell you how frequently you should update your addons, but there could be certain issues if you use an older version of an addon while someone else in your party/raid use a newer version and the addon communcates with each other.

Also the number of bug report from old versions are too damn high when you already fixed that bug like half years ago.
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Unread 09-11-13, 04:12 AM   #59
Taraezor
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Update Client

A major frustration for me is that on the websites where my "We Don't Wipe" AddOn is hosted, players cannot handle a process of installation which to me seems rather trivial.

My "We Don't Wipe" AddOn is NOT "Instal Client" friendly.

I have had to make a change, timed for Patch 5.4, to simplify the installation of modules into We Don't Wipe, because it is clear to me that otherwise competent players are struggling with the manual handling of files. It remains that even after Patch 5.4, my AddOn is still not (and never will be unless someone bothers to tell me what to do as I use a Mac) "Instal Client" friendly.

So.... I try to hold off on any kind of update because I just know that I will need to hand hold players with the installation process of the latest update.

Another point is that I resent regular updates of AddOns anyway.

It implies that the developer is amateurish. Yeah, I make programming mistakes but if I just fix on a hunch and release without some testing then I'll be uploading more than once a day.

So if I find that an AddOn is getting regular updates WITHOUT significant feature enhancements then I know the true score: the developer (yeah donating his/her time for free to be sure) is sloppy and I will look elsewhere for a similar feature set.

Just my thoughts.

Edit: OMG!!!! I decided to read through all the posts and there was a mention of my AddOn (in all its inglory). My comments above stand I think.

Originally Posted by mom2chris06 View Post
I just got the add on We dont wipe and saw that today there is a new updated one due to Patch 5.04 coming out. It looks as if the only thing i will need to do is just change the module only since it was for my Elemental Shaman.

My questions is this, will i need to delete the module file, dl the new one, extract and put where it needs to go and change any wording on it with WOW not on and when i turn it back on for more gaming it will be done correctly? Sorry if i sound ignorant or dumb i have only used curse and like most others i do the automatic download. I want to make sure that i do it correctly and have a fun gaming experience.

Thanks for reading and for the answser,

Kimberley
I truly wish that this player had PMed me or posted a comment on the AddOn's comments page. If think readers will agree with me that these kinds of frustrations are so common and yet so easily resolved.

Perhaps I should add a third point to my previous two:

AddOn authors need to communicate clearly what needs to be done. I think many authors are sometimes deficient in this regard.
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Last edited by Taraezor : 09-11-13 at 04:19 AM.
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Unread 09-11-13, 12:23 PM   #60
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The post you quoted is what bumped this 4 year old thread.
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