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Unread 10-06-09, 12:58 PM   #1
Faraque
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Rotation Helper Addons

This comes about due to me having helped a couple dozen people understand rotations/priority systems with Prot pally, Ret pally, Frost DW DPS DK, Blood DPS DK, Warlock Destro, Warlock Affliction and more. Very frustrating to have to answer over and over questions that could be easily solved by pointing them to an addon, helping them once to set up the rotations/priority system in a logical, intuitive manner, then only having to fix it later if they change specs.

I've seen quite a few rotation assist mods (FaceMauler, Serious Help In Timing, clcret) and one that looks like it attempts to make an overall rotation assist mod (SpellPriority).

What I am interested in is something similar to those, yet adaptable to other classes without requiring intense knowledge of LUA/Developer Addons. (I'm looking at you SpellPriority)

I'm not a stupid individual, but the amount of non-user friendly work to even begin making a "tacticfile" for SpellPriority completely ruined any enthusiasm I had for it.

So... Here's my idea/hope that perhaps someone with time and LUA skills could create:
  • Name suggestion - "What Do I Do Next?"
    -----------------------
  • Simple Dropdown Boxes with currently known (or presumed known) spells/abilities based on class.
  • Priority Based on order of choosing in dropdown boxes.
  • Tick box for changing from Priority to Rotation method.
  • A text field for time to wait for Rotation reset with optional ticks to reset based on target change or target loss.
  • Conditional based (user input conditions) suggestion boxes.
    Conditions including
    Bloodlust/Heroism (obvious, really)
    presence of specific named buffs, (thinking frost dk Freezing Fog + Rime = Howling Blast)
    presence of debuffs on mobs, (thinking Icehowl's stun here as a ret pally to blow wings)
    during certain spellcasts. (thinking XT-002 Tympanic Tantrum here as holy/ret pally here to use Divine Shield/Divine Sacrifice)
  • Display area being a simple draggable box onscreen showing current suggestion in center, next suggestion on the right smaller, conditionals on left smaller.
---------------------------
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Unread 10-06-09, 01:38 PM   #2
Alkar
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This sounds like a very good idea
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Unread 10-06-09, 02:02 PM   #3
zero-kill
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I thought we shot this idea down a little while ago. I believe the request was for an "auto-cast" mod though, rotation mods are just one or two steps from being within the realm of the ever present EULA compromising "botting" program, and this is why Blizzard has yet to stop the use of these types of mods.

I understand where you are coming from, but I didn't think there was a way to dynamically "sense" the proc for debuff or buff, theoretically it'd be possible to watch for the text on proc that occurs within triggering mechanics, but even that is borderline automation.

I'm probably wrong and my mind is off a bit, someone with more knowledge/focus might be able to point out my incorrectness. Honestly I just can't remember.

/Edit: found the post here.
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Unread 10-06-09, 02:25 PM   #4
Faraque
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You're applying false logic to what I'm asking for. Addons already exist that do what I'm asking, they are simply for specific specs of specific classes. (With one exception, which caused this thread, because it is incredibly non-user-friendly)

This is NOT about auto casting.
This is NOT about making one button facerolling.
This is NOT about botting.

This IS about training.
This IS about displaying user defined rotations.
This IS about using a computer to say "Hey, these conditions are true, you could do this instead"
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Unread 10-06-09, 04:43 PM   #5
zero-kill
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Roger that chief, just making sure.
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Unread 10-06-09, 09:03 PM   #6
def9
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Its a great idea to me as long as the infomation buttons in say a rotation aren't clickable. Then botting accusations are out of the way as you aren't doing anything more than providing information they can find on dozens of websites including blizzards.

Maybe something with loadable modules, so you could select a specific class and talent tree just so they'd have talent specific info like lock & load, some important talents need to be assumed. This would load only the specific info to the persons class and spec as needed saving on memory usage. This could let them switch back and forth if they are dual spec'd and if they have more than one toon they wouldn't need a different mod for each class/spec. Also make the onscreen info box like skada/recount style. Easily moved and scaled, with a lbd/fubar button to remove clutter from the screen when its not needed.

Of course my mod design skills are beyond horrible as I really don't understand alot of the code. Maybe I'm suggesting alot but that's all they are suggestions.

*Edit by def9 for spelling*
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Last edited by def9 : 10-06-09 at 09:05 PM.
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Unread 10-06-09, 09:34 PM   #7
TekNoir
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The addon Ripped might be closer to what you are seeking. I haven't checked to see if it still works or if there are later versions posted elsewhere.
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Unread 10-06-09, 09:47 PM   #8
Faraque
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Originally Posted by def9 View Post
Its a great idea to me as long as the infomation buttons in say a rotation aren't clickable. Then botting accusations are out of the way as you aren't doing anything more than providing information they can find on dozens of websites including blizzards.
Man, has there just been a lot of botting threads lately? I almost feel under attack, lol.
def9, so you know, the idea of a rotation manager with changing clickable buttons is impossible within the framework of LUA and WoW. Blizzard specifically locked out the ability to do that.

Maybe something with loadable modules, so you could select a specific class and talent tree just so they'd have talent specific info like lock & load, some important talents need to be assumed. This would load only the specific info to the persons class and spec as needed saving on memory usage.
This part would be unnecessary if how I described above was in effect. My initial idea would be that it scans your spellbook, and only loads spells that you can actually cast. Maybe checks inventory/talents too, but ideally it does this on load, so there's no need for individual modules. When it starts up, it'd already only know what you could do with it.

This could let them switch back and forth if they are dual spec'd and if they have more than one toon they wouldn't need a different mod for each class/spec.
This sparks the thought that it would have to rescan talents/spellbook after a talent switch. Which is a good idea.

Also make the onscreen info box like skada/recount style.
There is no logical reason to make it look like skada or recount. Rows of bars don't depict easily what to do. Icons of skills do. Thats why the other class/spec specific rotation helpers work so well. They help people identify what next to do.

Easily moved and scaled,...
Agreed

... with a lbd/fubar button to remove clutter from the screen when its not needed.
Unnecessary. Simply hiding when out of combat/not targetting a hostile is fine. You don't need to see suggested attacks at any other time.

Of course my mod design skills are beyond horrible as I really don't understand alot of the code. Maybe I'm suggesting alot but that's all they are suggestions.
I have almost no experience with LUA and very very little in any kind of programming, so I have to bring my ideas to those that are savvy, same as you. Suggestions never hurt, so don't be shy. Even if the suggestion isn't used, it may help spark other related ideas, or help someone get out of a rut in thinking.


Still looking for a coder to champion this idea. Feel free to contact me people. I'd love to see this come to light if for no other reason than to help people learn to play better.
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Unread 10-06-09, 09:52 PM   #9
Faraque
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Originally Posted by TekNoir View Post
The addon Ripped might be closer to what you are seeking. I haven't checked to see if it still works or if there are later versions posted elsewhere.
Yeah, that's a lot like what I'm thinking. However, the author seems to be MIA. I'd look at it myself, but as I stated above, I wouldn't even know what I'm looking at, much less how to read someone else's ideas in code
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Unread 10-07-09, 07:04 AM   #10
Kagaro
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I might pick this up, just an issue with my work schedule which is pretty full right now. Goes along with HeadCount2 .. that is behind where i wanted to be due to time constraints.
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Unread 10-07-09, 07:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Faraque View Post
Unnecessary. Simply hiding when out of combat/not targetting a hostile is fine. You don't need to see suggested attacks at any other time.
Don't forget to hide when in a vehicle, or while mind controlling. Or when the target is a player. Or... maybe a manual hide mechanism wouldn't be a bad idea
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Unread 10-07-09, 11:44 AM   #12
Faraque
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Vehicle, yes.
MC, yes.
Player, maybe.

PvP is kind of a grey area. However, you could (ideally) build a rotation for PvP.

Kagaro, if there is anything I can do to help, please PM/Email me and let me know.
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Unread 10-07-09, 02:55 PM   #13
Kagaro
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Originally Posted by Faraque View Post
Vehicle, yes.
MC, yes.
Player, maybe.

PvP is kind of a grey area. However, you could (ideally) build a rotation for PvP.

Kagaro, if there is anything I can do to help, please PM/Email me and let me know.
Bigegst thing i could think of would be rotations for classes, thats more of a research type thing to figure out optimal dps cycles. I only know shadow priests dps cycles since thats all ive played that last 2 years, I knew the cycles for rogue befre tbc, but tis changed a ton since then. PM me later if you got spots to go check for them.
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Unread 10-07-09, 06:24 PM   #14
Faraque
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That's the thing. You don't need to know them. If this is built the way I said above, the USER inputs thier own cycle based on advice given/read. You don't need to know it personally.
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Unread 10-07-09, 07:39 PM   #15
Petrah
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Originally Posted by Faraque View Post
You're applying false logic to what I'm asking for. Addons already exist that do what I'm asking, they are simply for specific specs of specific classes. (With one exception, which caused this thread, because it is incredibly non-user-friendly)

This is NOT about auto casting.
This is NOT about making one button facerolling.
This is NOT about botting.

This IS about training.
This IS about displaying user defined rotations.
This IS about using a computer to say "Hey, these conditions are true, you could do this instead"

Sticky-Notes work just fine for this. I have one stuck to the bottom of my monitor with the 15 cast rotation for my unholy dps dk. Works much better than an addon. All specific class rots can be found on the net, if not at EJ's.
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Unread 10-07-09, 07:46 PM   #16
Faraque
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You know... I didn't ask for a solution that involved glue and the monitors frame.
Also, I can't direct someone to download a Post-It note to help them learn something across several classes/specs/people.

Also also, yeah, all this information is found on the net. They COULD look it all up. You COULD watch all your own debuffs with the default UI. You COULD just learn boss timers by trial and error or internal clock. You COULD use the base 5 action bars WoW has. You COULD just live with buttons around the minimap instead of panels and LDB's. You COULD just look things up on WoWhead instead of using Lightheaded/QuestHelper/Carbonite.

You don't. You use an addon to convey information. Take your Post-It notes to another thread if you can't contribute to the thought process.
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Unread 10-07-09, 07:53 PM   #17
Petrah
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Don't get snotty. Post-It-Notes are just as much of a legitimate answer for easy access to information as creating an addon.
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Unread 10-07-09, 07:59 PM   #18
Faraque
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You are not contributing to the discussion here. Go away.
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Unread 10-07-09, 08:03 PM   #19
Petrah
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Originally Posted by Faraque View Post
You are not contributing to the discussion here. Go away.
Damn you're mean.
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Unread 10-07-09, 08:24 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Faraque View Post
You are not contributing to the discussion here. Go away.
WOW! Did NOT realize you were an admin or a site-moderator to be able to judge whether someone is "contributing" or not. Silenia made a simple suggestion based on what works for her. If you don't like the suggestion, then then simply don't use it... Don't get the idea that because you created this thread it means you can tell other responders to it what to do or say.

I'd better stop typing now... This can't go anywhere good...
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