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Unread 02-04-10, 02:37 PM   #21
Cairenn
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Originally Posted by Amenity View Post
I guess that's the privilege the "UI community elite" get around here. I haven't written any life-changing 100k+ download addons and aren't buddy-buddy with the site administration here so it's perfectly acceptable for all sorts of blind misinformed accusations to be tossed my way with no repercussions whatsoever. I mean, you're the ones bringing in the site traffic and the advertisement dollars so they have to cater to your whim.

Don't worry...you won't have to put up with my "annoyances" much longer.
Amenity: Seerah responded to all of this already, so I'll just let the majority of her post stand. However, I am going to add a bit to her response to the above quoted bit:

What on earth are you talking about? There is one group we 'cater' to, and one group only: Blizzard. Why you seem to feel otherwise is completely beyond me. If we had any sort of a problem with you, you'd know about it, and it would have happened long before you had 100+ posts. Obviously we don't.

The responses you have received in this thread have been opinions, just like your own opinion. There have been no policy statements by either Blizzard or WoWI. The majority of what I read was, in fact, people trying to look out for you. Everyone could have just left it alone. But people have been warning you that you might be putting your account at risk. That is showing concern, not 'jumping on you'. You really need to remove the chip on your shoulder (I'm not sure what put it there in the first place) and realize that people are actually showing care for you. I don't necessarily agree with the way some of them have expressed it, but Seerah also covered that by telling people to calm down (the only 'policy' statement made in here, which was just a reiteration of our site rules, which is that people are to be decent to one another).

As for your very last line - I know how it reads to me and I have two things to say to it: what annoyances? and I'm sorry to hear that you feel that way, I'd rather not lose any member of our community (and at 100+ posts, you're a member of our community).
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Last edited by Cairenn : 02-04-10 at 02:41 PM.
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Unread 02-04-10, 02:49 PM   #22
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Interesting how you conveniently leave out the rest of his post which specifically mentions "reverse engineering, modifying World of Warcraft, adding components to World of Warcraft" and "You agree that you will not (i) modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of a World of Warcraft installation".

But, I'm done trying to convince people. You've clearly got your mind(s) made up. It's your choice in the end.

As far as this goes:
Originally Posted by Seerah View Post
One last thing.


This is the second time that you have made an accusation like this. I suggest you reanalyze your opinion.
An opinion is based on observation. I still haven't heard back from Cairenn regarding the previous "incident", nor received an apology from Dolby for his fanatical backing of the other party involved (not to mention his condescension of my character) in that incident despite the fact he was clearly wrong (as was later admitted by that other party, which I thanked him for). In fact, everything I've asked the administration since has been ignored (everything from "hey, what are the details of your art project so I can toss together some ideas" to "I'd like to make a monetary donation to the site as a means of support but don't want a subscription, how do I do that?").

But whatever. I really couldn't care less about your thinly veiled e-threat. I'm taking my work elsewhere. Do what you will.
 
Unread 02-04-10, 02:54 PM   #23
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Amenity - I'm sorry, life has been ... less than stellar ... for me lately. I don't really care to get into any of it in a public forum like this, but if you'd care to PM me we can talk, okay?
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Unread 02-04-10, 02:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Amenity View Post
I guess that's the privilege the "UI community elite" get around here. I haven't written any life-changing 100k+ download addons and aren't buddy-buddy with the site administration here so it's perfectly acceptable for all sorts of blind misinformed accusations to be tossed my way with no repercussions whatsoever. I mean, you're the ones bringing in the site traffic and the advertisement dollars so they have to cater to your whim.
Um, how did this turn into an attack on ALL the users/authors here? I assure you, no one caters to my whim here. Pretty sure that applies to 99% of the rest of the community as well. And yes, it is acceptable to "toss all sorts of blind misinformed accustations" because the fact of the matter is that people are trying to clear up the question of legality. Trying to provide info to the questions or giving their viewpoints is not a violation of any rules here, thus not subject to repercussions. Your post, however, is subject to repercussions as it is against the rules for being "flaming/insulting/rude", in which I have already taken the liberty to report in support of the very cause you are trying to present (and clearly failing at).
Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too buddy, but looks like you don't care anyways as you have already given the image of being a stuck up 13 yr. old who thinks he's king **** and knows everything. Kinda reminds me of my 9 yr. old.....

Your guide is questionable and pardon if people want to make sure they're not gonna get banhammered for doing it. You think the responses are annoying now? Just wait til the first person gets banned from your guide. This doesn't even touch the hell you'll be in store for if/when this happens.

Don't worry...you won't have to put up with my "annoyances" much longer.
But whatever. I really couldn't care less about your thinly veiled e-threat. I'm taking my work elsewhere. Do what you will.
EDIT: With your present choice in attitude, which is not desirable here, nor tolerated, your departure would probably be for the best.
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Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!

Last edited by ChaosInc : 02-04-10 at 03:07 PM.
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:03 PM   #25
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Chaos ....
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:06 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
Chaos ....
Ok, ok! I edited the last one for "niceness". I was writing my response while you guys were doing yours.
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Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:09 PM   #27
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Thank you.
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:10 PM   #28
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It seems like fighting has been popular these days. I don't want you to go, Amenity!
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:20 PM   #29
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Chaos...you just proved my point. Thank you. And by the way, I wasn't attacking "everyone"...just the elitist top-run users like yourself.

I'd probably take your viewpoint of me being "immature" a bit more seriously if you weren't tossing out childish insults.

In regards to the actual question in this thread: I had no problem with people questioning the legality of this provided they back their arguments up. Instead, they just repeated the same arguments ad nauseum all the while disregarding anything I posted. Nobody here is trying to "clear up the question of legality" but myself. You're all so convinced that you're correct that you won't listen to things like logic or reason or precedent.

But no, I'm the one who is acting as if I know everything? When I'm the only one using actual sources of information to construct my argument based on fact? I believe you've gotten this backwards, sir. You're like the people who still believe the 1969 moon landing was a hoax/government conspiracy despite being shown hard physical evidence that it wasn't. I've stated in this thread that if a convincing argument that wasn't hearsay could be presented that I would be willing to admit that I am wrong. Wish someone one the other side of this debate could say the same...but that would mean admitting you can be fallible...and that's just unacceptable to you, isn't it?

Ok, ok...this is seriously it. Go ahead and get your little last word in. I'll come back to read it...then shrug it off lightly as the mad ramblings of someone who has no idea what the hell they're talking about.

*GTFO-ing*

-Ame
 
Unread 02-04-10, 03:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Amenity View Post
Go ahead and get your little last word in.
Bye.

(10-char)
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Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:31 PM   #31
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The problem is that nobody can prove the legal-ness or illegal-ness of the MPQ cursor modifications.

Blizzard has not given a straight answer to this question. Any response that hints at these modifications being legal is open to interpretation because the original quote was purposely ambiguous.

What people have provided is a warning. Adding MPQs does change how Warden views the game. When Warden does not see the normal install in the Data directory it flags your account. We know this happens. Whether or not Blizzard will ban you for adding cursor textures is something nobody knows for sure. All we do know is that it could happen.

Using the MPQ method of changing your cursor texture could be viewed as fine. Maybe Warden flags are reviewed on an individual basis and Blizzard can see what's been modified and choose whether or not to take action.

Most of the warnings about using the guide have been more along the lines of "Hey that bridge could have ice on it, be careful if you cross it", rather than "This is as illegal as murder".


Now, I have a feeling that you will blast this reply for not providing links to any blue posts. The problem is that they simply don't exist. Blizzard won't share much about how Warden functions, so we make educated guesses and try to reverse engineer some processes. It seems like people have been advising caution and you've taken it as a personal attack. Maybe things could have been phrased better. But maybe we can all just calm down and not do anything rash?

Sorry if you leave, I've enjoyed many of your posts btw.
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:33 PM   #32
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Stop it. Behave, all of you, this thread is way out of control and I'm not at all happy about it.

I'm talking to Blizz, to see if we can get an answer either way. I'll let you know.
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Unread 02-04-10, 03:54 PM   #33
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Amenity you are in the elitist top-run users group. Any one with more than a few good posts is and with you hosting some great addons even solidifies that. You are just as much a part of this community as any one else. Yes some people arent nice but thats life, the better you can handle those people and ignore them the better life you'll have.

I think most are just saying there is a possible risk as the question has not been 100% answered. Those people care about those in the UI community and want to share their concern. Now we really can't take anything a GM says seriously as many times in the past some have stated AddOn's were illegal to use. Not to mention they are told they can not comment on or interpret legal issues; that is an issue for a Dev/Producer/Legal dept. Luckily we have a line of communication with those at blizzard that can answer it and Cairenn is seeing if they can clear things up (legally they might not be able to give us an answer) but Cairenn is working on trying.

Amenity if you have any problems with what I said in the past you can PM me. I don't really think its appropriate to bring it up in this thread. If you feel more comfortable talking about it publicly you can still do so in the public thread your talking about as it hasn't been deleted.

Last edited by Dolby : 02-04-10 at 04:02 PM.
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Unread 02-04-10, 07:00 PM   #34
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Factual information:
I used to have a custom cursor back in 2008. Back then, it was a simple matter to do. All you had to do was create the blp as described here with the filename point.blp. Then, you created a folder named Cursor within the Interface folder. Finally, you placed point.blp in that folder.... and it just worked.

That method doesn't work now.

Opinion:
Considering it is quite possible that Blizzard intentionally disabled it, I'm not going to push my luck

Last edited by fixitman333 : 02-04-10 at 07:03 PM.
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Unread 02-04-10, 08:10 PM   #35
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wow, this is a really violent game .

it would seem to me, however, that anything that tweaks the "official"/released manifest of MPQs (as components distributed by Blizzard, and therefore broadly governed by the EULA) would be a high-risk sort of thing to do.

there might never be a consequence. or you could (unfortunately) get squashed like a bug. and i agree, i would doubt Blizzard ever devote the resources required to reverse-engineer what you are doing, how/why/etc, much less take any of that into account.

in any event, this begs a different question: how do addons like _Cursor work (and i have seen others that augment the cursor in various ways, adding a global cooldown progress bar and other such things)? presumably these addons do things in a way that is legitimate for addons. wouldn't that be a safer (or at least less controversial) way to go?
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Unread 02-04-10, 09:43 PM   #36
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Not much point in arguing more since Cairenn is attempting to get a response, but I'm bored enough to throw in my 2c. The history of model-editing is pretty simple:

Place renamed m2 files in your data folder in the appropriate file path.

Blizzard disliked this, so they stop reading raw overrides for a select group of files. They now only read repackaged MPQ files.

Blizzard still dislikes this, so they add a 'security certificate' (my own terminology, I don't recall the official term) to a select group of MPQ files. You now need to run a 3rd party executable that modifies this certificate in order for wow to load certain modified MPQ files. Any modified protected MPQ files will crash the game if the certificate isn't valid (or modified by another, explicitly illegal, application).


Cursors are on the second stage of this process. We can argue that Blizzard is escalating security on these particular files to prevent it. We can also argue that two steps doesn't make a pattern, and until Blizzard makes this explicitly illegal it's ok.

Which one is it? Who knows. Pick a side, have fun, be civil, and enjoy the unprecedented UI modification wow has either way.
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Unread 02-06-10, 06:40 AM   #37
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The fact is this:

Blizzard broke custom cursors.
Blizzard will not say whether they broke them on purpose or not
This leads me to believe it was on accident (working as intended).
Therefore the fix that works is perfectly fine until stated otherwise,
to live any other way is to make assumptions on reality, and that's no way to live.

Anyhow, I bet we are spending more time worrying about a freakin' cursor than Blizzard is.

But why they don't just stop the confusion when they could so easily is pretty annoying.
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Unread 02-06-10, 07:24 AM   #38
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I think they are working on it Kupotek.
Originally Posted by Cairenn View Post
I'm talking to Blizz, to see if we can get an answer either way. I'll let you know.
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Unread 02-06-10, 08:10 AM   #39
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Thanks ckramme! I did not see that in all the chaos (*smile*)
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Unread 02-10-10, 03:29 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Amenity View Post
Alright, I've done so for now Also, I really dislike how you've alluded to this being a "hack". It's not. All this is doing is adding a file that says "Hey WoW, instead of using your own file how about you use this one?" (EDIT: Actually it doesn't even do that. It just exists. WoW is choosing to use it.) In fact, it's really no different than this:

http://www.wowinterface.com/download...rrorsound.html

The only thing that's different is that this file is a .MPQ, and that one is an audio file. NO BLIZZARD FILES ARE BEING ALTERED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
I really should be in bed right now but I care too damn much not to answer.

Not sure if anyone's seen this but have a look at this thread folks :

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...02301679&sid=1
7/15/2009 Music Distribution through UI Add-Ons

We have recently seen a number of User Interface Add-Ons that are making modifications to the World of Warcraft in-game music files and wanted to take a moment to go over some important points with the community in connection with this. While we are currently allowing Add-Ons that remove or replace existing sound files, keep in mind that it is illegal to distribute copyrighted materials, in this case in-game music and audio files, without authorization. One of the primary goals of the user interface is to allow players to customize their game experience and we hope to avoid making any modifications in the future that will prevent this.
IE They are specifically allowing sound modifications that work by recreating the file path in the Data folder.

That's Bornakk one of the CM so he liaisons with the developers as referenced in :

http://www.wowwiki.com/CM

EDIT : Just to clarify as Amenity seems to have made a post glorifying that she was right :

Amenity all this means is SOUND modifications via placing sound files in the Data folder are okay by Blizzard.

It does not mean that Cursors placed in the Data folder to over ride the default cursor is okay by Blizzard and it certainly does not mean that directly editing the MPQ files is okay because of this reference.

The post was specifically made as there were a number of posts debating wheter Sound mods that go in the Data folder were okay and that post was in relation to them.

Amenity I like you as a person and loves your posts you make on any forums but please don't use this post or my name to imply something that simply is not true.

This is not me being "cliquey" or "sticking up for my mates". This is me correcting what you've attributed to me on your webpage.

Why you gotta be such a hater
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