Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 09-08-10, 03:48 AM   #1
Ferous
Sheer Sense of Doom
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 863
Cata Dungeons Revert to BC Model!

Cataclysm Dungeons difficulty
The normal dungeons require a little more crowd control than many LK players are typically used to, but they aren't intended to be brutal. You shouldn't need to farm a lot of gear before stepping into one. Keep in mind that feedback is going to be all over the place in a beta. Some players are heading into dungeons they know nothing about and getting frustrated when someone can't immediately explain the boss mechanics to them. Some just have no sense in investment since this isn't their "real" character (such irony). Some of the bosses are overtuned and some of the class abilities are undertuned at this stage. Because Uldum and Twilight don't have quest rewards yet, there are also some folks who are just really undergeared. Half your glyphs probably don't work. The new enchants aren't readily available. And so it goes. That sort of thing will all get ironed out over the next several weeks.

You shouldn't have huge mana problems in a normal dungeon. Your middle heal should get you through most of it just fine. You'll have to use more of your emergency heals in the heroics and raids, and you'll also be expected to gear up a little more for the heroics and raids. In Burning Crusade, players went and finished the Shadowmoon quest lines or got their reps to Exalted or maxed out their trade skills in order to have the best gear available for the heroics and raids. That is our model for Cataclysm.
Source - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...eNo=3&sid=1#44

In Burning Crusade, players went and finished the Shadowmoon quest lines or got their reps to Exalted or maxed out their trade skills in order to have the best gear available for the heroics and raids. That is our model for Cataclysm.

THIS IS WHAT IM HAPPY ABOUT!
Ferous is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 06:44 AM   #2
ChaosInc
Curse staff
 
ChaosInc's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 670
Wow, sounds good. Despite how boring BC was, it still required some work to get gear and get through dungeons, unlike the super easy mode that heroic are in LK. I look forward to feeling like completing a dungeon is an accomplishment again instead of just a farm fest. Hopefully it will range on how dungeon difficulty was back in vanilla; a la UBRS.
__________________
Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
ChaosInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 08:45 AM   #3
Dawn
A Molten Giant
 
Dawn's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 903
I don't mind dungeons being hard, but what I really liked about LK dungeons was the time needed to get through one. Don't get me wrong on this one, even a damn freaking hard dungeon doesn't need to take well over an hour. If your group/gear sucks and you wipe at the first trash pack is fine. But having to go through endless wings of a dungeon and/or additionally masses of trash isn't fun, imho.
From what I've heard/seen so far from cataclysm dungeons is that they do take quite longer. But that might be because of players lacking itemization before going in, I hope.

Anyway, I really hope it will be still possible to do something in cataclysm without having to play 1-2hours at once or raiding in general. I have no time for that.

PS: I don't want well fare epics or whatever, just some reason to log in, because I like that game ... Getting emblems for heroics that could be done in 15-30minutes was a reason for me in LK, because it was fun, fast and after some weeks you could get something out of it. You were still far behind active players, though and that's ok.
__________________
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

"neeh the game wont be remembered as the game who made blizz the most money, it will be remembered as the game who had the most QQ'ers that just couldnt quit the game for some reason..."

Dawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 09:21 AM   #4
ChaosInc
Curse staff
 
ChaosInc's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Dawn View Post
I don't mind dungeons being hard, but what I really liked about LK dungeons was the time needed to get through one. Don't get me wrong on this one, even a damn freaking hard dungeon doesn't need to take well over an hour. If your group/gear sucks and you wipe at the first trash pack is fine. But having to go through endless wings of ra dungeon and/or additionally masses of trash isn't fun, imho.
From what I've heard/seen so far from cataclysm dungeons is that they do take quite longer. But that might be because of players lacking itemization before going in, I hope.

Anyway, I really hope it will be still possible to do something in cataclysm without having to play 1-2hours at once or raiding in general. I have no time for that.

PS: I don't want well fare epics or whatever, just some reason to log in, because I like that game ... Getting emblems for heroics that could be done in 15-30minutes was a reason for me in LK, because it was fun, fast and after some weeks you could get something out of it. You were still far behind active players, though and that's ok.
I agree to a point. I like the "adventure" dungeons of vanilla. BC they turned into long drawn out trash fights. LK it became "kill a boss, move to next room, kill a boss, continue to end boss" which really kills immersion for me. Some vanilla dungeons were relatively quick (DM east), others took a bit longer (Stratholm) which gave a nice variety based on your available play time. I feel a 15min heroic run is just proof of how dumbed down for casuals the game has become (yes, coming from a casual player. Imagine that!)

But that's just my preference which isn't right, wrong, better or worse than anyone else's. I just feel at this point LK is too easy, repetitive and boring for me at this point.
__________________
Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
ChaosInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 09:49 AM   #5
Dawn
A Molten Giant
 
Dawn's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 903
Yeah, I just prefer 15minutes of hard work over 1hour of boredom.

And I agree, LK heroics are ~15minutes of no work, nonetheless still better than 1hour of boredom, imho.
__________________
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

"neeh the game wont be remembered as the game who made blizz the most money, it will be remembered as the game who had the most QQ'ers that just couldnt quit the game for some reason..."

Dawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 09:57 AM   #6
yj589794
A Rage Talon Dragon Guard
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 314
Dungeons will take longer than you will probably like at the start of the expansion. This will mainly be down to people getting used to having to use CC again. So a lot of time will be wasted on explaining what to CC and applying the marks.

Once everyone is familiar with this method of play then it will become quicker as you can assign CC roles at the start and then motor through (as long as you have someone fast at applying marks).

If you remember back to TBC dungeons then Shadow Labs or Shattered Halls took a long time to begin with. Once everyone was familiar with the pulls then hitting the Shattered Halls timed event for the extra loot was a regular occurrence.


I suspect that you are going to see some LFD horror stories at the beginning as people try to get away with WotLK tactics (or lack thereof), and fail hard. So, put together guild runs and knock off those guild achievements at the same time
yj589794 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 12:29 PM   #7
Seerah
Fishing Trainer
 
Seerah's Avatar
WoWInterface Super Mod
Featured
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,560
I'm not even sure of how many times I had to use polymorph in WotLK. I could probably count it on one hand, though.

Now I'll have to brush up my CC skillz again.
__________________
"You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Things Are As They Are." -Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh

Seerah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 12:40 PM   #8
Taryble
A Molten Giant
 
Taryble's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 811
I see Tekkub's "ControlFreak" being added to my addon list again, since I have, umm, 3 80s that have some form of CC, and a 56 mage climbing fast. o.O
__________________
-- Taryble
Taryble is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 01:09 PM   #9
neverg
A Cobalt Mageweaver
 
neverg's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 241
Dungeons won't take as long as they took on TBC, don't worry. They will just require more CC than LK (or, some CC as LK required none) and won't be as AoE Numb Grind Fest as it is currently on live. Only that 2 changes will make sure instances aren't as fast as now. On top of that like the blue says, gear for heroics will matter more. Who the hell did the normal dungeons back in the day? Heroics were easy enough.

Do you remember TBC Heroics that even with some Raid Gear they were challenging? That was a bit extreme. The middle point between what we had in TBC and what we have in LK is the key. And that is what we are going to get.

Cataclysm (so far) presentes itself like the iteration in dificulty that LK should have been after TBC and not the moronic aoe fest that it is.
__________________
My oUF Layout: oUF Lumen
neverg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 01:10 PM   #10
ChaosInc
Curse staff
 
ChaosInc's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Seerah View Post
I'm not even sure of how many times I had to use polymorph in WotLK. I could probably count it on one hand, though.

Now I'll have to brush up my CC skillz again.
I feel ya there. Outside of PvP, I haven't touched my Sap button since WotLK was released. On top of that, I completely skipped the normal versions of the dungeons and went straight to heroics. Yay for strategy being reintroduced!
__________________
Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
ChaosInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 01:18 PM   #11
sacrife
An Onyxian Warder
 
sacrife's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 384
I probably did around 50+ brd runs in my time and in retrospect the experience was more of a bore and hassle than enjoyment. Don't get me wrong there were fun times, but as huge as that dungeon was it just got tiresome.
__________________

sacrife is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 01:43 PM   #12
ChaosInc
Curse staff
 
ChaosInc's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by sacrife View Post
I probably did around 50+ brd runs in my time and in retrospect the experience was more of a bore and hassle than enjoyment. Don't get me wrong there were fun times, but as huge as that dungeon was it just got tiresome.
BRD was one of the more boring ones, I'll agree to that.
__________________
Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
ChaosInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 01:52 PM   #13
Ailae
A Rage Talon Dragon Guard
 
Ailae's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 317
I didn't think the length in TBC was all that bad, besides Shadow Labyrinth perhaps. But the heroic version was just stupid hard, where if you had no CC as dps you weren't really welcome. On the flipside, the current faceroll kind of heroics aren't any better. Feels detrimental to one's evolution as a player.

Like someone said earlier, best case scenario would be something in between TBC and Wrath.
__________________
Oh, the simulated horror!
Ailae is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 02:35 PM   #14
Slakah
A Molten Giant
 
Slakah's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 863
I must know LBRS like the back of my hand, the amounts of times I ran that trying to get +dmg gear which easily beat MC gear.
Slakah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 02:51 PM   #15
Petrah
A Pyroguard Emberseer
 
Petrah's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,865
I'm looking forward to more challenging content. However, I hope people don't behave the way they normally do when you go into places like HoR or Oculus (they even nerfed that to make it easier and people still complain).... as soon as you zone in, 2 to 4 people ditch.
__________________
♪~ ( ) I My Sonos!
Petrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 03:48 PM   #16
ChaosInc
Curse staff
 
ChaosInc's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Petrah View Post
I'm looking forward to more challenging content. However, I hope people don't behave the way they normally do when you go into places like HoR or Oculus (they even nerfed that to make it easier and people still complain).... as soon as you zone in, 2 to 4 people ditch.
True. What I really hope dies down is the whole "Oh, we wiped once, time to leave the group." But with the lack of penalty for leaving after a wipe and the LFD system, I have severe doubts about this. One can hope though.
__________________
Originally posted by Mirrikat45
so says the 1/2 million downloads per week.......
Impossible statistics = FAIL!! But don't point this out, or your post will be deleted!
ChaosInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 08:22 PM   #17
break19
A Flamescale Wyrmkin
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by ChaosInc View Post
True. What I really hope dies down is the whole "Oh, we wiped once, time to leave the group." But with the lack of penalty for leaving after a wipe and the LFD system, I have severe doubts about this. One can hope though.
There is a penalty for leaving in the middle of a run.. you have to wait before you can queue again.. plus the wait for the queue itself.
__________________
My daddy always told me, "Son, you can't fix stupid, and to try is stupid in itself"
break19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-08-10, 10:23 PM   #18
Phanx
A Pyroguard Emberseer
 
Phanx's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,133
There's no penalty for leaving an LFD group if more than 15 minutes have elapsed since you zoned in. I'm usually okay with one wipe, or even two, but if I'm in a group that's wiping over and over for stupid reasons and won't listen when I make suggestions for fixing the problem(s), I really don't think I should be forced to stay in the group, or be penalized for leaving at that point.

On the other hand, if I leave the group immediately, or in the first few minutes, I'm completely okay with having to wait an extra 15 minutes to queue again. Most likely, if I'd stayed in the group, it would have taken at least 15 minutes to finish the dungeon, so I'm not really losing any time.

What I do hate are tanks who sell "instant queues" for gold with no intention of actually running an instance and leave the moment they zone in, and DPS players who queue as tanks to get groups faster but don't actually know how to tank, don't make any effort to learn, and then roll on DPS gear.
Phanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-06-10, 01:02 AM   #19
OldHarry
Premium Member
Premium Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 174
I envision wipe fests with all those who have leveled without ever having learned cc basics and los.
OldHarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-06-10, 02:29 AM   #20
neverg
A Cobalt Mageweaver
 
neverg's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 241
As a Tank, I have already planned some Macros for when I join a LFG.

Something like:

CC - Crowd Control. This is where you dust your Sheep/Sap/Roots and actually use it on mobs to make my life easier. Bla bla bla.
__________________
My oUF Layout: oUF Lumen
neverg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go BackWoWInterface » General Discussion » Gameplay » Cata Dungeons Revert to BC Model!

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off