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Unread 12-02-12, 01:53 PM   #1
Xylan Trueheart
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Suggestion on making this work

I know this might not be the place to make a suggestion but I post it here thinking it will have the most visible exposure for the Carbonite Beta testers.

To help Rythal on this phase of his project I found over the years doing the following helps the most in getting any new changes, additons, etc with any addon to work properly or in Blizzard parlance, "working as intended".

First completely delete the old addon file. Please don't be lazy to simply overwrite the older version. You never know if anything is left over from the older version of an addon lurking within the new version.

Second, delete the Saved Variables (SV) part of Carbonite. Be aware there are 2 Carbonite SV's. One is the per character SV and there's the account SV as well.

I found doing this helps my sanity and the addon author's sanity and time as well.

As it happens, I forgot to delete the Carbonite SV file in one Beta version. When I deleted it so far (crosses fingers) Carbonite has been working.

Good luck all.
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Unread 12-02-12, 08:05 PM   #2
Twink
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TBH its good for some people to just over-write. If the code is going to be pushed to live, everyone else isnt going to delete and start fresh, they are going to be lazy and overwrite.

Its better for people in the beta testing to flag the problem than to have everyone have the problem on the live version!

TL;DR

Updates need to work when over-written, not just clean install.
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Unread 12-03-12, 01:04 AM   #3
jeffy162
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Originally Posted by Twink View Post
TBH its good for some people to just over-write. If the code is going to be pushed to live, everyone else isnt going to delete and start fresh, they are going to be lazy and overwrite.

Its better for people in the beta testing to flag the problem than to have everyone have the problem on the live version!

TL;DR

Updates need to work when over-written, not just clean install.
Deleting, rather then allowing an overwrite, makes sure there is no "old code" left when you install a newer version. If there is, that's what is referred to as "a bad overwrite", and can cause no end of odd problems when it happens. It's always better to delete, as opposed to allowing an overwrite, where addons are concerned.

Originally Posted by Xylan Trueheart View Post
<snip>
First completely delete the old addon file. Please don't be lazy to simply overwrite the older version. You never know if anything is left over from the older version of an addon lurking within the new version.

Second, delete the Saved Variables (SV) part of Carbonite. Be aware there are 2 Carbonite SV's. One is the per character SV and there's the account SV as well.<snip>
There is really no reason to delete any of the SavedVariables for Carbonite, unless you have a problem and it cannot be corrected. In that case, the only SavedVariable you should delete are the ones at the account level. IE: Path to your WoW folder\WTF\Account\ACCOUNT NAME\SavedVariables\. The Carbonite SavadVariables for your characters (Path to your WoW folder\WTF\Account\ACCOUNT NAME\ServerName\CharacterName\SavedVariables\) only contain flight points (Flight Master locations) that your character knows. You can open the .lua files with any plain text editor to see that for yourself. Although you can safely delete that particular file, and the game will rebuild it completely the first time that character visits a Flight Master, it's just not necessary to do so. It's also a real p.i.t.a. if you are doing that for 37 characters (like I would have to) for every time you update Carbonite.
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Unread 12-03-12, 10:05 AM   #4
Twink
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Originally Posted by jeffy162 View Post
Deleting, rather then allowing an overwrite, makes sure there is no "old code" left when you install a newer version. If there is, that's what is referred to as "a bad overwrite", and can cause no end of odd problems when it happens. It's always better to delete, as opposed to allowing an overwrite, where addons are concerned.
Yes you are right, and I know that.

But of the 200,000 people that downloaded it last month alone (Curse only!) how many of them are going to delete everything instead of overwriting?

My point was that it is better for beta testers to have the overwrite problems before it goes live.
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Unread 12-03-12, 02:38 PM   #5
Rythal
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Originally Posted by Twink View Post
Yes you are right, and I know that.

But of the 200,000 people that downloaded it last month alone (Curse only!) how many of them are going to delete everything instead of overwriting?

My point was that it is better for beta testers to have the overwrite problems before it goes live.
probably 99% of them, the curse client when used deletes the old (i'm assuming since when you hit update on an addon it says uninstalling then installing).
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Unread 12-03-12, 03:27 PM   #6
Dridzt
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I'm pretty sure the Curse Client doesn't delete the saved variables of addons else there would be hordes of angry users for every update when they lose all their settings.

It might actually delete the addon folder, that does make some sense.

I kinda jumped in the discussion mid-point here so I'm not sure what exactly is the issue I just know there's 2 of them

1. Leftover files in the Addon folder itself that are somehow still referenced in the .toc or .xml and causing problems.
This would be solved either by the users (or the updater) deleting the old addon folder before installing the new one,
or by the author making sure that when a file is removed / renamed in their local copy all references to it are purged.
If the old/obsolete file is not referenced in the .toc or .xml files it never gets loaded/causes no problems.

2. Upgrade SavedVariables issues (for example when the database format changes).
This would be solved by either the author nuking the old SV programmatically themselves if they don't want to devote time to upgrading the old format to the new (a task which sometimes is more time consuming than the actual changes to the addon themselves)
or by the user going into their SavedVariables folder and manually deleting the addon SV while exited from the game.

The 2nd problem is the most common and I'm 99.9% sure no updater would mess with saved variables.

I understand Rythal and other addon authors know this already, was just clarifying for the rest (I hope).
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Unread 12-03-12, 09:00 PM   #7
Twink
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Originally Posted by Rythal View Post
probably 99% of them, the curse client when used deletes the old (i'm assuming since when you hit update on an addon it says uninstalling then installing).
Ok using Curse as an example was a bad idea because of the updater, I just used the monthly download count from there! Here on WoWI you just download the zip file and extract it to the location, this is the process I am getting at!
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Unread 12-03-12, 11:33 PM   #8
jeffy162
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Originally Posted by Twink View Post
Ok using Curse as an example was a bad idea because of the updater, I just used the monthly download count from there! Here on WoWI you just download the zip file and extract it to the location, this is the process I am getting at!
Understood, and that is what we are trying to clarify for everyone. Simply overwriting the specific addons' folders that are already installed can lead to having problems (caused by a "bad overwrite") that can only be straightened out by deleting that addons' folder(s) and reinstalling with a fresh download (or unzipping the downloaded addon you already have if you didn't delete it after the first install of it).

One other thing that a bad overwrite might lead to is a corruption of the main (account level) SavedVariables for that addon. Believe me when I say that if you have more than a few characters (I have 37 currently) that's going to cause a major headache, since the only way to fix that problem is to delete that file. With Carbonite, that involves setting everything up all over again on each character, and if all of your characters don't use the same element positions, well, you can see where this is headed.

It is just good practice to ALWAYS delete the specific addons' folder(s) before installing an update, thereby avoiding the problems that can be caused by a "bad overwrite".

By the way, the only time the Curse Client should delete any addons SavedVariables files is when you are uninstalling the addon with the Client. Even then it will only delete the account level SVs, since it would have absolutely no idea where, or which, each character level SVs are to be able to delete them.
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Last edited by jeffy162 : 12-03-12 at 11:50 PM.
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Unread 12-04-12, 09:27 PM   #9
Chmee
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I don't think I've ever seen a bad overwrite on a Mac.
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Unread 12-07-12, 02:17 PM   #10
sgtevmckay
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Originally Posted by Xylan Trueheart View Post

Second, delete the Saved Variables (SV) part of Carbonite. Be aware there are 2 Carbonite SV's. One is the per character SV and there's the account SV as well.

Good luck all.
May I ask, in general, where these SV files are located? Or where you have found them?
I am using Windows 7, but If I can get generalized file locations from an XP user, I can find them
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Unread 12-07-12, 07:12 PM   #11
jeffy162
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Originally Posted by sgtevmckay View Post
May I ask, in general, where these SV files are located? Or where you have found them?
I am using Windows 7, but If I can get generalized file locations from an XP user, I can find them
The account level SavedVariables are (or should be) located at "Path to your WoW folder\WTF\Account\ACCOUNT NAME\SavedVariables\", while the SavedVariables for each character are located at "Path to your WoW folder\WTF\Account\ACCOUNT NAME\ServerName\CharacterName\SavedVariables\". In both instances you are looking for the "Carbonite.lua" and "Carbonite.lua.bak" files.

As long as you do not have your WoW installed in the "Program Files" (or "Program Files (x86)" folder on a 64bit Windows (Vista, 7, or 8 (maybe, don't know too much about 8)), those locations for those SavedVariables are the same for every World of Warcraft game irregardless of Operating System. In other words, if you know where your WoW folder is, you've got it (mostly) beat.

If you DO have it installed to your programs folder, you might need to look in the "VirtualStore" for those folders (or, at least the "AddOns" folder). You can find the "VirtualStore" (at least on Vista) at "C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\VirtualStore". I have never had my installation of WoW in those locations (programs folders), so I am unsure of where all of the folders will be in that case. Sorry.
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Last edited by jeffy162 : 12-07-12 at 07:16 PM.
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Unread 12-12-12, 10:07 PM   #12
Catitude
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Saved Variables in Curse

Just a quick point
Curse Client gives you a check box option to delete the Saved Variables for addons when you uninstall them thru the Curse Interface...
Deleting mine made me crazier than usual & didn't have any positive effect on issues that I was having with Carbonite at the time... tho there has been a couple of other addons, in 4 years or so, where that was the only fix.
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