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Old 08-04-07, 06:31 AM   #21
Persen
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As a mage I've had my fair share of rogue problems. I've tried alot of builds, but the one I'm now (deep fire) handles rogues better than the rest, if you consider the cloak of shadows. My earlier PoM spec (hadn't got AP because IMO it sucks, just wastes your mana) was mostly about luck, but the arcane missiles worked pretty well, and a instapyro (for the dot) held them out of stealth.

Later on (60-67) I went frost and with this build rogues who hadn't got Imp. Sprint was pretty easy, but those with it was hard to beat. Frost nova and frostbolts, ice lance when I got it, and some use of the elemental's freeze (really a good thing to have) could usually bring em down to 20% when they most of the time vanished. If my nova was on CD then I couldn't do ****.

Now I'm deep fire and my instants can take care of them pretty good - but now they have the damn cloak. Now it's more of a dice throw, if I get to blast them away they haven't got a chance, but usually they open with garotte silence. Nova-lance, fireblast, breath, blast wave, just get the damn instants off. Try to keep them controlled, pray that you get an impact or even two. Should get them down, if they cloak it's just good for me. I hold a little, kite and wait for my CDs to shorten. Only problem is I haven't got any survivability-improvers like ice block or pom-sheep.

I am not very good at PvP but this is what I try to do atleast^^
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Old 08-04-07, 08:10 AM   #22
zathriel
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ive got a lock going now , upto 30 almost and im amazed how overpowered it is compared to a mage. it may not have poly or blink or survivability like a frost mage but it does tremendous damage in a short time. i ran into a bloodelf mage three levels higher than me n wiped the floor with him
thus i have decided to put my rogue on ice n concentrate on getting my lock upto 70
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Old 08-04-07, 09:09 AM   #23
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@ nihlistic

Frost mages can kill rogues with ease. The key is patience. Sure, they can get out of all your freezes and such, but realize that it's all cooldown abilities. The key is to get them to blow them all in order to fight you. After that, they're a sitting duck.

Even as frost, if you're concerned about them vanishing, toss a 1st level Fireball to give em a DoT. Problem solved.

As I posted before, stop whining that you have to use some skill to kill rogues now. You're just pissed off cause they aren't "free honor" anymore. I repeat, L2PvP.

Note: I have both a mage and a rogue, so it's not like I'm one sided here.
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Old 08-09-07, 05:15 AM   #24
Phannie
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I only leveled my rogue to 48...but I enjoyed her a great deal. The only two classes that even had a chance against her were frost mage and a lock with the succubus. Everything else went down before they even knew I was there.

But yea, a frost mage can kick some serious rogue butt if you play it correctly. I once watched a lvl 40 frost mage school a lvl 60 rogue with little more than nova, frostbolt, sheep and blink. It took him forever to do it, but he outlasted her.
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Old 08-09-07, 05:53 AM   #25
sicness
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I have a 68 rogue and can tell you that it's not as easy as it seems. Sure one on one rogues have their advantages, but against certain classes, as certain specs, there's no way one can beat a competent player. As a mage if you're having problems, I'd question what spec you are, if you're not frost there's no reason to complain about rogues. If you're frost then look at some of the strategies other people use. In fact, there's great how-to videos by a mage called "I suck at Dueling" and "I suck at PvP".

The real reason rogues are getting buffed is because of their arena play. In 5v5 they're practically worthless, as a warrior can do the same things and after 30 seconds into a match has more mobility than a rogue, having intercept. This is why rogues are getting a buff to their mobility.

Since the more recent patch that made all PvP trinkets remove any effect that disables control of your character rogues have had a difficult time, as now anyone can use it to break the notorious Blind + Bandage routine that rogues usually have to use against most classes. So instead of being so close minded try looking at it from another perspective.

Edit:
Also, if you're going to complain about a class you should read up more on them. That's actually how most people learn how to play against them. Cloak of shadows is not effected by Preperation, and is a 90% resist chance against all spells and does not remove all DoTs, but simply all magic effects. Warrior DoTs are not effected by it. Deadly throw, their ranged interrrupt is only usable if the rogue has combo points on you and only causes and interrupt if the rogue has the arena gloves. If you really want to see an unfair matchup watch a rogue against a decent warrior, the warrior simply has to auto attack and hamstring to win.

Last edited by sicness : 08-09-07 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 08-19-07, 08:52 AM   #26
zathriel
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damn, just cant leave my rogue alone
halfway to 34 now , mostly subtlety at present but wondering what most think is the best levelling tree?
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Old 08-19-07, 09:56 AM   #27
SaberHawke
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Originally Posted by zathriel
damn, just cant leave my rogue alone
halfway to 34 now , mostly subtlety at present but wondering what most think is the best levelling tree?
Read this http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dt4f32p_4dcj7jt, for some good leveling advice.

I have been playing my rogue since early alpha and haven't found another class I enjoy as much.

Last edited by SaberHawke : 08-19-07 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 08-19-07, 11:20 AM   #28
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Spec Frost then blow CDs.

P.S sheep + Bandages are your friends.
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Old 08-19-07, 11:39 AM   #29
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sheep heals your target
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Old 08-20-07, 11:16 PM   #30
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Sheep as an opener if you have low health to start with, + bandage, It is a friend
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Old 08-21-07, 02:43 AM   #31
malcite
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Originally Posted by nihlistic
i get hit stunned hit ..i blink. if i try to engage him, he blinds or stuns me before i get a meaninful shot off. and by throwing things at me he postpones my 2.5 second cast to about 3 to 4 sec cast. i gotta stand still for stupid long cast times. then its 15 seconds without a blink which equals certain death. if i frost nova him he gets out of it immediately. slowing effects are brushed off by him which makes the frost tree absolutely USELESS. if i manage to get him down in hitpoints he vanishes.
aoe only works if im close to him. i cant find him, i am not a warlock and have no stealth detection.
he can silence me (a caster) for 3 seconds and interupt my spell completely by throwing things at me in the mean time i might as well take my gloves off and bareknuckle fight him.

and in the 5 seconds that he is immune to everything he can kill me.....yes 5 seconds.

so bliz wants to extent his insignia of the horde as a tool to allow him a way out of sheep and slowing effects in the next patch. THATS RIGHT

frost mages hit with a frostbolt for 1200 points off a 2.5 second cast. every fourth or fifth cast is a generous crit for 2900.

if a mage hits enemy while the enemy is in ice a mages crit chance increases by up to 50 percent at which point the ice is broke by the damage 90 percent of the time (very unreliable CC tool).
but the trick is to get far enough away from the target, turn around, and cast a 2.5 sec cast while being interrupted ...lol ...90 percent of the time you WILL NOT get a cast off so kiss your would have been 50 percent crit increase goodbye.

A mage, if able to get away, may click on his invisible button. yes we must wait 5 seconds until we vanish. if we are hit by anything, even a dot or a bleed, we just wasted a 5 minute cooldown. and cant go invis

blink only works half the time, as intended? if a mage blinks in certain wide open places as a lifesaving means to get out of range; half the time the mage will go backward 2 feet.
so blink cant even be counted on.

address these issues,

V/R,

Nih
Sounds to me like you dont have alot of resilience gear and stamina gear. If you work on the epic arena set and the non set items from regular pvp battle then you will increase the chance of a good shot in a rogue encounter.

Also the thing to remember when dealing with a rogue is that all rogues keeps on the move while engaging someone. This counts for most classes in fact except mages because they don't have alot of casts that enables you to stand still.
Now frost spec isnt that good in pvp as it used to be. As a former frost mage myself turned nuke arcane/fire spec i still struggle with rogues seeing as i don't have alot of resilience myself yet, but i do get in alot more damage than what i would do as frost spec. Now im not suggesting you change your talents, cause in the end if everyone has the same talents where is the fun in that. But if you have a pure frost tree i would suggest working on an alteration that enables you to get an additional cast of. Arcane mages have an instant cast spell that really is helpful in pvp for those really intense fights.
I usually start of with a fireball and continue casting those untill some hordie set their eyes on me. then i nova him down blink away and do another fireball followed by an instant pyroblast. Having 40% crit chance really can bypass resilience alot (and you can count on rogues and locks to have alot of that atleast) with the initial damage. And since i also put a double dot on him thats affected by spell crits the chances are that i just got him about halfway down on his hp. After that you need to get some assistance. Premade pvp is always the only option for my server atleast (we suck on pug alliance side, always lose, but premades we near win all the time) Grouping into team is the best way to counter any class cause all class have designed flaws against other classes, the only thing that changes is where this flaw is located, luckily for mages it can't change alot so we have a clear idea what can be done to counter it best possible in alot of cases.
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Old 08-21-07, 03:48 AM   #32
Rooster
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tbh, respecc frost and pwn us. Don't whine about CloS Or our Deadly throw, You got your imba pet that does 1k NONE crits and can Frostnova. your icelance can crit for 2.4k (?)... so, GTFO or stop whining. rogues= Pure cloth killers, When your fire, you're just a little toy we like to play with.
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Old 08-21-07, 04:00 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Rooster
tbh, respecc frost and pwn us. Don't whine about CloS Or our Deadly throw, You got your imba pet that does 1k NONE crits and can Frostnova. your icelance can crit for 2.4k (?)... so, GTFO or stop whining. rogues= Pure cloth killers, When your fire, you're just a little toy we like to play with.
so true, so true
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Old 08-21-07, 05:27 AM   #34
zathriel
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one thing i have found in single pvp outside arenas is that to be really successful its a matter of timing.
rogues seem to be about stealth and then a sudden attack before vanishing quickly as posssible , so i wait for a moment of weakness or distraction.
a shadow priest one level higher than me was fighting a mob so i watched and waited.
she instantly started a fight with another two mobs and the moment she used her psychic scream she was dead.
normally i would have just left alone but this being STV and horde ganking alliance being terrible in my realm , in STV at the present time , i decided on no mercy.
i tried taking down another rogue in the arathi highlands but they did what i do , hit vanish and disappear.
at present i am sticking with mostly subtlety , i have improved stealth and movement and an instant cooldown on vanish and sprint , might get enhanced perception too?
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Old 08-21-07, 07:30 AM   #35
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Old 08-21-07, 08:08 AM   #36
Mohaim
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Step 1. Hang around with Warriors.
Step 2. Stack up Stamina/Resilience (Like any GOOD PvPer).
Step 3. Respec Frost.
Step 4. ???
Step 5. PROFIT, in this case being, one really, really dead rogue.

As is, we're not over powered, you honestly just need to learn to play as a mage. Blink puts you in far enough range that we can't blind you or just run up to stun you inless we have Sprint on, in which case if you see us running to you, then you should pop Frost Nova. If anything, you can sheep us to get a Frostbolt or Fireball off, and from there just instant cast and kite. Besides, all our stuns were nerfed last patch or so. Now they're resisted, dodged, or miss alot more often then before. Oh, and I made an account just to say that. Care to provide your character name for the armory? Or are you a twink? >:C
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Old 08-31-07, 04:36 PM   #37
zathriel
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mages when taken by surprise are in trouble , though locks are a pain.
i got in close to a lock the other night and was quickly beating the hell out of him when he feared me and then ran off , this was in STV.
thats the one thing priests and locks have over mages , they can force a rogue away from them and stack on damage , where as a mage has to keep distance and sheeping heals your opponent and you cant damage them while they are sheeped.
i nailed a priest in STV but i waited until he was already fighting and used his fear on the mob , then i knew he was dead hehe
having a lock myself , at 40 you have two fear skills you can use , one instantly , thus you can control a single rogue if he doesnt kill you quickly
i have been thinking of respeccing my mage though i cant really decide what to have.
i know the in thing at present is arcane/fire which can be a killer with PoM.
as for my rogue , i'm still experimenting . i recently changed my spec again to 21 combat / 10 subt.
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Old 08-31-07, 05:24 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Dreadlorde
....
When words dont get it done a handy little animation says it all. I completely agree lol.
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Old 08-31-07, 08:10 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by MidgetMage55
When words dont get it done a handy little animation says it all. I completely agree lol.
Took long enough for someone to notice that..lol.
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