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Updated: | 06-26-08 08:47 AM |
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ShinzuiUindo |
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VagrantEsha |
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Sojik |
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06-26-08, 04:51 PM | |
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It's an option I'm considering.
The thing is, if I have to tie a library into Spelling (which I don't mind doing), it'll significantly embiggen Spelling itself, and if I consider that not every user may desire that functionality... well, you get the idea. So if I include SinkLib instead of taking my own route, I have two options... 1.) Rewrite Spelling's broadcasting routines so that they all register through SinkLib, thus placing the majority of the burden upon SinkLib. 2.) Create a tiny 'stamp' in Spelling which calls a modular addition which has the on-screen printing functionality. Neither of these is perhaps the most ideal solution, but they're certainly something I'm considering. I'm also looking into the best way to use a font-string in a mod without creating memory overhead. Considering that Spelling creates a button already to register events, it wouldn't be hard at all to change that button into a frame, and then create and register the font string on that frame. If I take my own route, then I could selectively decide when the font string is created, thus saving the user some overhead with having idle stuffs lying about. Of course, this is all moot if SinkLib has gained a lot of saturation throughout the Addon community. One thing to consider is whether that's the case, if there are a lot of big name mods that use SinkLib, then the overhead would be next to nothing because those mods will be loading it regardless of what Spelling does. But if SinkLib hasn't reached a major level of saturation yet, then Spelling might be the only mod using SinkLib, thus introducing an unnecessary level of overhead. So basically, how used SinkLib is will definitely decide upon which route I take, this is something I have been researching, and I shall continue to do so. It'll be a major factor in my decision. At the end of the day though, the primary goal for Speling right now is to introduce these new features with an infintessimal overall hit. Every trick and hack I can use to shave a little less off Spelling's overall performance, I'll use. So it's the resources I consider as more important than the functionality, because that's been my goal from the start. So yup, SinkLib is a good call, and I've been giving it thought for quite a while now... but this isn't a decision I'm going to jump into. I want to do a lot more reading and checking around first to see what's definitely the best route for me to pursue. This is what's delaying the last major feature of Spelling, really... But when I do make a decision on how I'm going to handle this, I plan on it being the right one. No hastyness here! |
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VagrantEsha |
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06-26-08, 04:22 PM | ||
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Sojik |
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06-26-08, 08:44 AM | |
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I might still do the alerter part, but only that.
As for the alerts, it probably shouldn't be funny. In fact, I'd recommend distinctly unfunny, as that would allow me to provide a level of uniformity. And once I've seen how it ties in with different spells, I might create sets based on those which use sounds that I'll provide (thus detailing how Spelling is capable of doing what other alert systems can, which I'd like to do). There's no rush though, as currently I'm working on getting on-screen printing into Spelling. I'm just considering the most light-weight way to do it... I have considered using the FCT, but there are too many negatives there. But while I want it to look nice, I don't want it to be heavy or option-filled, so it's a tricky thing to work out. |
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VagrantEsha |
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06-25-08, 10:56 PM | |
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I like that Spelling is niche. Call me elitist but I don't want everyone running around with this mod abusing it and it's wonderful charm. I wouldn't say I use it for RP, I use it mostly for comic relief and a little bit of alerting and if I posted my spellings what's to stop people from stealing my jokes? No way. I'd help you with mage sets, if you want to still do that, but I'm not using any of the Spellings I use myself (in fact I may send you extra unfunny ones to make mine seem funnier by comparison ). I love it when people laugh or whisper me in raids with "That's awesome" or "ROFL" or something. Imagine if everyone had the mod. We'd all get sick of it is my point.
Basically, if you can't come up with your own spellings or you can't figure out how to go to the Wiki and grab one that's been posted, should you really be allowed to use this awesome addon? |
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Sojik |
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06-24-08, 04:57 AM | |
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You make a number of good points, Ever. Points good enough that I can't really contest them, to be honest.
The more I press on with Spelling, the less I want to include a GUI. I've profiled mods which do similar things, that have less flexibility, and despite the overall power of Spelling, it had the least impact on the client's resources of all those I tested. That's why I was looking towards sets... With a sets system, I could create a separate module, one that stands alone from Spelling and simply dumps things into its database, the player could install it, import whatever they like, then delete it. It's true though that roleplaying sets would probably just defeat the purpose, as we'd have people running around saying all the same things. I still think sets for alerts might be worth investigating, but i'm still not sure whether it's worth putting the effort in, whether it's actually worth investigating. At the end of the day, I suppose I just have to accept that something that really puts power in the hands of the user cannot be simplified and made easy to use for everyone, despite their level of computer experience. I suppose it's the age old dilemna that every software developer faces when they try to open something up to a more wide user-base. So I may just leave things alone, or I may just put something together for alerts only. I'll have to think on it. As for Spelling though, I can assure you that I won't be touching the guts of Spelling as it is right now. The mod, I feel, is very feature complete and it manages this whilst only doing what it absolutely needs to whilst allowing the player to do what they desire. I'm not going to dampen that potential down with an intemediary system which would ruin what's so special about the mod right now. I suppose I was really just overthinking things... |
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VagrantEsha |
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06-24-08, 12:23 AM | |
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Personally, Esha, I think the mod is great as it is. Up to now, you've only added features whenever you found it couldn't do something you wanted it to. You've fleshed it out to the point where it's very robust, and can handle just about anything that can happen to, by or around your character. I think anyone who can install WoW, and learn to play their character could learn to create Spellings with a small amount of effort. There's a certain sense of rightness to the fact that people need to put in a bit of effort to reap the rewards this mod offers. Putting in the large amount of time required, and complicating (as well as bloating) the mod with a GUI would be a shame in my book. At most, a small editor that could be used to enter new Spellings or load and modify existing ones.
As for sets, one of the beauties of this mod is its ability to allow the user to personalize his/her character. Sets that aid players and groups would be worthwhile, but RP sets... I think it would defeat the whole purpose of RP, which, IMO, is to develop characters' unique personalities. On a personal note, between work, a new granddaughter, writing my own mods, and guild raids, I have barely had time to get a few dailes in each week, let alone play with Spelling. I've only touched the surface of it's abilities, and am really looking forward to exploring its full potential. Hopefully things will slow down soon and I'll have more time.
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Everglow |
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06-23-08, 03:20 PM | |
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I feel I've hit a bit of a snag with Spelling...
The problem as I see it is that Spelling is never really going to get out of a certain niche; that being users who are possessed of UI smarts and lots of patience. I've observed that mods that have hefty defaults do better than those who leave customisation with the user, or put great power in the hands of the user and tell them to use it. (I call this the Mass Effect syndrome. "Stop drowning!") There are only two ways around this... 1. Include a humongous, friendly GUI. 2. Have lots (and lots and lots) of presets. I don't like option 1 for quite a few reasons. The first of which being that it would add unnecessary overhead to the mod, as others have said, Spelling truly exceeds at being minimal, and I've even profiled it to prove that to myself on numerous occasions. So I really don't want to add a GUI, that'd introduce feature creep and it'd put Spelling back into the dark ages as the GUI would, at first, not be capable of doing the things the slash-command does. This brings us to the second reason I wouldn't want to add a GUI; I woudn't know how to translate all the text options to graphical options, thus having the user type less cryptic stuff. It might even be impossible to translate some of it over fully. This, in and of itself, might make pursuing a GI a fool's errand. I have thought about a GUI in the past, and that I'd like to add one, but every time I've tried I've hit upon a wall. I realised that I could section off the UI from Spelling, and have it pass stuff straight to Spelling's slash-command functions, but even then it becomes a matter of "How do I format that?" and "How do I even begin to translate that?". There's always something I can't wrap my head around with making the GUI, so I've tossed the idea aside. This leaves presets... I'm quietly working on one for my Druid, basically a Tauren Druid Roleplayer set. Sets could include similar efforts, sets for class and race, roleplayer race/class sets and alerter class sets. To utilise this, I'd create a mod that's separate from Spelling, it'd like use the Ace3 framework so I could easily create a GUI. That GUI would basically have two sections; Roleplay and Alerts, both would have a dropdown box and an 'Import' button. They'd be sorted as is relevant, and a player could scroll down through the list(s) to find the one that interests them and click import. I could also use a fontstring to display a bit of information (perhaps limited to 200/300 or so characters) about each entry, so the player could select an entry and see what it does before clicking import. I'd be interested to know what you all think of this idea? I ask this because here's the catch: I can't do this by myself. As I've mentioned countless times before, I only really play one or two classes, I'm horrible in that respect because I specialise, and I don't alt much. This means that I have a grand understanding of my own class (and have done since beta), but I have little or no knowledge of other classes. The only other classes that deserve honourary mentions are Shaman and Hunter, but it's been a while with those. Getting to the point then, here's the request: Would any of you be interested in helping me compile sets? Both alerter class and roleplay race/class sets? You'd be fully credited it for it, I can assure you of that, and it really would be a bit of a team effort. What you'd have to contribute is a bunch of Spelling lines (everything but /spelling add) and a description for each one, it'd have to be a complete set, or as complete as you feel is necessary for your class (not every ability would need an alert in an alert set, for example). We could also even have a generic set, now that I think about it, stuff that's for general race stuffs. A set that has says/emotes for general combat, player/mob death, and so on... based on race. (Much like the player_kill example I gave recently on the front page.) So that's a thought too (and one I'd like input on).... So what do you all think? We'd need at least five sets or so to make the project worthwhile, even if they're only alerter sets. Alerter sets I might compile myself but without having a high level [insert class here], I can't really test it... and drycoding is usually a bad thing to inflict upon others. I'll see what replies I get to this, anyway... I just thought this would be an interesting idea to share with you all. And I know I said I'd step back from coding a bit, and I am. The real work here is going to be for the compilers, whereas my job (making a simple GUI and doing a bit of reformatting) will be much easier by comparison. With a little effort though, Spelling could be the greatest thing since sliced bread for roleplayers (and for raids, too), and with presets it could have the ease of use it would require to catch the attention of the end-user bracket. To be honest, I don't mind Spelling remaining a niche thing... but it would be nice to allow others to make use of something this fun. I know of people who'd look at something like the complex formatting of Spelling entries and think "Oh God, that's far too complicated for me to understand.", but I'd like even them to be able to benefit from it too. So... nothing more to say, really! Just throwing thoughts out there. What do you think? Edit- Wot, I can't write specialise because of some trajectory-impaired wood ointment? >.< Oh well, I'm sure you can all guess what it was!
Last edited by VagrantEsha : 06-23-08 at 03:24 PM.
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VagrantEsha |
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06-23-08, 03:09 AM | |
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There you go, I've separated it off into its own mini-mod. Really it's just SpellingScript.lua with a toc and directory attached. It just seemed the best way to segment it, if I was going to do so.
I'll try to leave Grammar alone as much as possible too, so it can best serve its purpose. Since I can't think of any other variables that would need passing to a Grammar function, though, I can't think of a reason why I'd need to fiddle with it again, so that's good. I think even Spelling's coming to the end of its evolutionary chain too, as I'm finding that I need less and less things for my own Spellings (that's how I judge how far done Spelling is, basically, by how often I find myself wishing that I had this or that, which I'd inevitably have to code in). So that's a good thing... Soon I'm going to switch attention to getting a Spelling done for everything in my spellbook, and of course I'll put them up on the resource for people to see. And thinking of which, if you have any that you feel are particularly interesting, Everglow, toss 'em up on the wiki so that others can make use of them (or modified versions thereof). |
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VagrantEsha |
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06-22-08, 10:19 AM | |
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I downloaded this originally about 3 weeks ago (and every update since) and have sadly been too busy to set up more than a couple of Spellings This is such a cool addon, and I really like its energy and flexibility.
I have one suggestion for you though. Seperate SpellingScript.lua into it's own zip and put it in the Optional Files section. I don't really have a problem with how it is now, but that would just make updating a bit safer and simpler for those of us that code, and allows non-coders to avoid the file completely. gj Esh... stay cool
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Last edited by Everglow : 06-22-08 at 10:21 AM.
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Everglow |
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06-17-08, 12:48 AM | |
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Tossed in a couple of changes, it was just something I threw in in five minutes, I haven't had any chance to test it but it really should all be fine.
IGNOREREQS: Ignore the requirements of source and dest, the Piccolo may actually require this instead of PLAYERISDEST, but unfortunately I don't have a Piccolo to test. :< Along with that, spell is now passed to SpellingScripts so you don't have to create duplicate scripts for each spell. |
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VagrantEsha |
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06-16-08, 05:02 PM | |
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I've tested tehdance in game now! Gods, that's funny. And I'm glad this is all working, because I've been thinking of stepping back from coding for a bit. Spelling I haven't had any issues with in quite some time, it's all been going beautifully in-game and all the whacky Spellings I've tried have worked out. I haven't had any posts on my other mods about them being broken, so I can assume everyone's in Happy Country there, too.
With SpellingScript introduced aswell, it means that Spelling is now autonomous, and the users of Spelling can create their own stuffs! I will be here to maintain Spelling (and my other mods), but there'll be no major features for a while, and no new mods. The reason for this is because coding takes up a lot of my RL time, I don't have so much to spare at the moment. Not only that but sometimes it can be quite stressful and that doesn't make me the best person to be around. Though maintaining is easy, bugfixing isn't too bad, it's just when I make major changes to stuff. I'd like to get back to doing some of the things I've neglected, and this way I can get more actual Warcraft playing time in, too. With Spelling as it is currently, I think I've earned my break! |
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VagrantEsha |
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06-16-08, 04:58 PM | |
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I love the piccolo examples! I stole them.
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Sojik |
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