Letter to Blizzard - December 5th
 

What follows is a letter I sent to Blizzard on December 5th regarding the status of nUI.



which was in response to this e-mailI received from Blizzard...

Quote:

Just an idea to avoid receiving "spam" from old nUI users;
why not lock the comment sections on wowui/curse and let anyone download the addon, but, add a link to your forums where discussions, issue reports, e.g. can take place.
There you have control who posts, yet the download is public so Blizzard won't have problems with that.

The only issue is you would need to do something about your private e-mail that is now publicly known, as if someone really wants to send you something it would be your e-mail, or even PM boxes on wowui/curse. Oh boy, it isn't easy to block people from contacting you... :/

Honestly the idea that you are trying to get people to pay for your addon is sickening. We already pay 15 bucks a month to play the game. Its like we have to pay to use the bathroom but we already pay for our house payments... Makes no sense and sounds greedy. You do not have to put up with anyone at all, there are ways around all that.

You should be the better man and just do what you love. You are making everyone else suffer because you want to go against Blizzards rules (Which is dumb) and make people pay for the addon because you are mad or something? I am sad to see all this happen but I am not sad to see your stuff shut down from WOWI, simply because you are being selfish and broke the rules man.

I am not attacking you in anyway but, only giving you the truth. Sorry if you can not accept that. I know you have talent but going this way about it is wrong man. look at Tukui and ElvUI, you think they like having spam and so on? They are the 2 biggest UIs around yet they do fine with everything without charging people for the UIs. What makes you so different man? I am lost at words here.

Not to me you don't. You pay that to Blizzard, who does not share it with me.

At the risk of using one bad analogy to argue the other, do you feel the same way about paying the gas station for the gas to put in your car that you already paid for?

Do me a favor... call your boss up and tell him that you're just going to do what you love and you really don't need to be compensated for the time and effort you put into it. Be the better man.

And why the hell does everyone keep saying that I am making people pay for the addon when I keep saying over and over again that there are several ways to get it for free? Not to mention that I uploaded updates both to WoWI and Curse not two days ago?

Your 4 ways, state donation to obtain the UI. That is paying. Should I go over your 4 ways? All 4 ways require some sort of payment.

Blizzard not sharing with you? LMAO. This right here. Come on man pure greediness man. If you wanna be paid to code, this is not the place to (try) that. You doing what your doing will get you in the wrong hands with blizzard. Just follow the rules. WOWI is not shutting you down for no reason.

No... all four ways do not require payment. Unless you consider writing an e-mail to be payment or asking a friend who told you about nUI to speak up for you not being a jerk isn't an option.

~rolleyes~

Apparently you don't know how to read on the ways people can get it.

Yes, they can donate and get access.

They can also have someone vouch for them.

Or sending Scott an email asking for access.

All I can say to the people who are being dicks to Scott - you don't deserve the time and effort that the addon authors put into the game. Don't like how something works? Be nice and suggest stuff. fix it yourself. Find an alternative.

being a dick just gets you what you deserve.

Never has an avatar been so completely appropriate.

2 easy ways to end this I suppose.

Stop putting out updates to nUI (please dont, I'm on my aging knees here in 10 dollar pants).

Or as Vlad suggested, just put up a version and lock comments. Want support, be in the inner circle, any bugs found by the innercircle will eventually get published anyway, just might take a bit longer. There are other addons authors that kinda do that. Latest version on their site, and updates a few weeks behind on other sites.

As a side note, I understand why Blizz send that mail. They may not be fully aware of all options, and not doing anything may send out the wrong signal that paid addons only are ok by them (Not saying nUI is paid only, just that it may look like it is to some. Communication was never humanity's strong point)

Donating isn't paying its a donation to the author to provide the service (if people chose to). Carbonite Addon use to be a pay add on for a subscription but that was handled by blizzard they release it to free. That against their policy.

Donating is the option to provide some payment for the author that isn't against Blizzard and anyone can do it. People chose to donate you don't have to donate

I have to defend the author for doing this because its takes alot of time and effort to put out the necessary coding to make it work and getting feedback from people who "spamming his inbox" makes the author feel unconformable to do this.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.

Whew. Okay.

No, man. It's like paying for someone to go to the store, buy christmas lights and decorations, AND take the time to put them all up around your house. Strictly speaking, you don't NEED those lights but damn do you want them! It's not greedy. It's compensation for work. Not even adequate compensation, either. It's like tipping the christmas-light-hanging guy $10 for $200 worth of lights, not even including all the time he spent.

While I don't disagree with what he's done, I will, however, agree that he could look into ways of shutting down the ...well, whiners like you. Someone already suggested locking down the forums and that sounds like a decent idea.

HahahaHAhahdHAcough

Sorry...I'm kind of at a loss for words at this..."be the better man" hahaha He IS being the better man by dealing with little ****s like you. I'd guess that the people that legitimately want to use/continue using the software will have no issue getting access to it for free. The only people to 'suffer' are the ones that expect..well, anything. The ones that feel entitled to software, to which, they contributed nothing.

For someone not attacking him, you use a lot of fightin' words. I would guess nUI is different than Tukui and ElvUI because of the number of developers. I may be totally wrong here (feel free to correct me if I am), but it was my understanding that more than one person develops each of those UIs. That's a pretty huge difference.

Also, how do you know they aren't having issues? Are you intimately involved with the developers of those UIs that you know their financial situation?

But I digress, as that's not the point. nUI is still available for free, so... I don't understand the problem.

This is not something I can ever see myself doing Seer. I will always continue to support people such as yourself who have been valuable members of the nUI community for as long as I can remember.

The problem with some people Today is that they feel they DESERVE something for nothing. Others are just plain behind the times charging monthly fees to play. In the end, both types either get left behind or fail miserably. I commend you on your dedication to the community. By the way, I have NEVER paid for nUI and have been a happy user for several years now.

Just wow...
 

I'm blown away by the sense of privilege some people seem to have here.

You have to pay your $15/month to Blizzard to play the game. That is a contract between you and Blizzard for rights to access the game. There is no other way to play the game, but you are fully capable of playing the game with no extras whatsoever.

You can choose to put in add-ons to the game to enhance your play. This is entirely optional. You do not need these add-ons to play the game successfully.

Some authors create rather minor add-ons for the fun or to create something they are interested in and offer it to all with no real concerns.

Some authors spend considerable time on much more complex add-ons. This author has asked for some degree of support for his considerable efforts. That support can take shape in multiple ways that don't have anything to do with money. If you choose to give him some money, he isn't asking for much at all.

The problem is not with the author here. The problem is with Blizzard's greed (they are strongly benefiting from the efforts of add-on authors with no benefits being provided to the said authors), and with the people here who seem to think they should get anything and everything they want for no effort on their part whatsoever...the very definition of spoiled brats.

Glad your UI is being shut down its impossible for you people to see the issue here. ;)

Entitlement – Really makes me sick…
 

It never ceases to amaze me that some (not all) but some folks feel that they are entitled to have access to others hard efforts for ummm well FREE. I am and would like to continue my use of nUI, I have to admit that I don’t post much on the forums, but I do from time to time make a voluntary donation at the website.

I look at it this way, I go to work each day I put forth an effort that is in accordance to my compensation. Mr. Piel goes to work every day and I am going to assume that he is compensated accordingly. Then Mr. Piel takes time away from his family and friend’s - time that he could be kicking back drinking a beverage of choice in an attempt to make MY gaming experience better. Why you ask? I really don’t know other than he actually cares about the game and the community.

I am truly disgusted by the constant – you should do this for me for nothing – I am entitled to your hard work for nothing – you should work for me for free – Don’t stop but I don’t want to reward you either. For some of the ass hats out there you would be surprised how far a simple “Thank you for your help you have made my game better!” would go. Trust me that in and of itself is a donation, if nothing more than to let him know his efforts are appreciated. I don’t have any issue with donating some $$$ every once in a while and Mr. Piel has never ask that I donate anything. I guess it is my moral compass that tells me it’s the correct thing to do.

Scott I love your UI I have used it for years, but at this point if you pulled the plug I would completely understand and would still thank you for the years of enjoyment nUI has added to my in game experience.

Thanks again
Fatal

@Kkthnx

What issue? That nUI is available free of charge? Ye, big issue indeed.

Support if you find a bug may get a bit harder, but still not impossible. Just be a nice guy is enough. But I guess you failed to read that.

2) they can send me an email and explain how they're doing something, anything, to be a helpful member of the community or to show their support of the time, effort and resources that go into
maintaining and supporting nUI.

A good bug report and the will to help fix said bug, knowing Spiel, is probably enough to be considered helpfull.

Offcourse, a mail demanding a fix is easily deleted.

I am not currently active WoW player, but I keeping my eye (well ears) open to changes happening to the game. I current do not have much time to sink into a game :(

But I can see where both of you (spiel2001 and Blizzard) are coming from.

Blizzard really what's all add-ons to be 'freely accessible' to all WoW players. However, they currently have it saying 'free'.

nUI follows the 'free' but not 'freely accessible'. Since you can make a small one off (?) donation to get faster access. I would send a e-mail to get them to define which one of the above they really mean.

Since it will still be free (to my understanding)

However, this 'limiting' of users might be classed as 'premium', so this is where Blizzard might be opbjecting to the latest change.

I just hope it does not get to the eighth point of the post.

Yea, I guess that's a fair point.

But then, registering to the nUI site to get "premium" (not paying) support should be ok. And gives Spiel the option to boot (bleeps) from his site.

I believe it's yourself that cannot see the issue, Spiel2001 has explained many times in forums and emails why he was doing it. but from what i can see he still provides nUI for free on curse. I have personal been a supporter nUI for few years and have diecided to make a donation for premium verison. If people want to make a donation for a service why can't they.

I've been away from WoW for years now, but i benefited from Scot's efforts for several years, never payed a cent for it.

Well, it's about time i showed some gratitude for his hard work... It's not much, it will never pay for his countless hours spent on the addon, but still i could not let this pass without stating my support.

You have had way more patience and endurance than i would ever had. I would have shutdown nUI months ago. So cheers mate, i commend you.

this is how it was in the old days was it not

Kkthnx, it is people like you that makes a community bad. You and your kind seems to demand everything for free, always and ever. People like Scott does not owe you anything, if something you owe him, and that is the truth.

I have not used nUI for a long time, but I have read all the mails that have popped in about it, and I just cant understand how stupid some people are, but hey I almost forgot, I see them in trade everyday.
I know there is ways of making it legal an still charge for an addon, look at how Zygor is still in business. Yes, the addon is free, but not the extra content for it, seems to work.

I also see a lot of addons on Curse that have closed comments, and its own community for it, I totally understand that then I see all the hate and childish comments on other addons.

Scott, even if I don't use nUI anymore, I still think it is a piece of good work, and I would never hate you for trying to restrict the community around it.
I too think a good idea would be to have a forum where you are in charge who can enter.

And when I look at announcements like this I'm sure someone misunderstood something among the lines.

To be honest, I think it is a little sad that Blizzard does not allow people to charge for addons, some are great and is a lot of work behind them.

There's really nothing in the Blizzard policy that says you can't limit users access as I read it. Each of those statements specifically notes monetary compensation for access... be it to download, related services, pay-only features, etc... they are all specifically saying you can't charge for that. Nowhere does it say that an addon author cannot tell a user to go pound sand or that they *have* to give it to every user, blindly.

But, then, maybe that's what they want and they just failed to word it as such. Given that I continue to make it freely available, offer several ways to get it for free and yet am still getting stepped on, apparently that's the case.

Did anybody stop and think under what reason can Blizzard limit what a person can write or not write?

They dont own the LUA lenguage, addon authors are merely using their API and that doesnt constitue a breach of copyright:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...h-of-copyright

The API are public that means they cant be considered "trade secret" or whatever they want to classify them to
enforce their rules.

They have absolutly 0 legs to stand on limiting authors addons.

So what stops somebody to start charging for an addon if they want , the code will be 100% their copyright,
it is not derivative since there is NO code from Blizzard on any addon ever.

As I said, communicating never was mankind's strong points. :-)

@bruj0

Not to sure, but in the end, if blizz decides to black list an addon, do you think you got the means to take them on? How does the EULA play out in that case.

Also, blizzard has to protect it's customers, they also handle "support" for addons, even if it's just saying, delete all addons. Yea, sorry you paid 20 bucks for it but you need to disable it. Some people might be ok with that and take action against the author, but many would lash out at blizzard and keep their CS busy.

Forgot what the real intention was, think protecting their player base , but not sure how they worded it. Or they see it from profiting from their trademark, and that's a big nono. If a simple addon can profit from the WoW trademark, without fees being paid to blizzard, how are they going to stop other's abusing their TM?

/edit yea, think its about protecting their trademark so only they can charge/provit from it and not have trouble defending it in court.

simple if it bothers you so much don't use it

There have been situations where addons have been banned by Blizzard, I think they then restricted the API`s that can be used or something like that.
I remember there was an addon long long time ago that draw things onto the 3D world, that is not longer allowed to do. Maybe I just misunderstood you on what you meant too.

You pay for Windows, so all software that runs on Windows should be free?

It's the same thing. I've always disagreed with Blizzard's "Addons must be free" policy. I understand why it's there (To stop someone charging you for an addon that is terrible quality, barely works, whatever or even doesn't do what it is described to do) but that's the same with any software industry. In my opinion, addon authors should have the same control over their software that regular Windows/Mac software authors have.

But money, from what I understand, isn't the issue here. Scott was disappointed by the lack of response to his donation drive, but the thing that hurt him the most is the abuse he received from his so called fans. You don't want to donate to what Scott considers a worthy cause? Fine. Ignore the email. Unsubscribe from the email list. Don't hit the reply button and immediately send a hate filled email. Don't jump on the forums and whine about it. Just ignore it. He wasn't demanding or requiring we donate to anything. He asked us if we could please spare a few dollars, and that is all he did.

Sorry for the little rant, but if I was in Scott's shoes, I'd be just as hurt at the community's reaction. Except I, unlike Scott, would probably close up shop altogether.

Scott-

As I said in my original email to you when you made the first announcement, I'm in full support of you & your crusade against the Troll-Legions everywhere.

I can say in all honesty that your work on nUI over the years has truly ruined me for ANY OTHER user interface addon available past, present or future - I cannot remember when I started using the addon, I cannot remember how I was able to play without it, and I even had to stop playing the game at times when nUI wasn't playing nice with the latest expansion's codes. Your work, combined with a couple other ease-of-use addons, keep me playing. Being legally blind, your efforts in creating a UI addon that condenses the necessary elements of the UI into a centralized locale and streamlined them into an elegant display makes playing the game so much easier.

To that end: I am going to say that, in the event that Blizzard actually distributes game code that blocks the use of nUI and any other mods you have out there, I am going to be discontinuing my support for Blizzard and fully embracing the other MMORPGs on the market. Why give my business to a company that is willing to ruin the reputation of one of their best addon-contributors, someone who they, in the past, PRAISED and ADMIRED because of his contributions?

I may be in a minority on this matter, but I've been in a minority since birth so I don't care how those with different viewpoints are going to react to this. I am firm in my beliefs and will absolutely quit WoW if I am not able to use one of the most crucial addons I have ever come across.

Scott keep doing what your doing. If ppl cant get over or are to lazy to try and help or even just write u an email they dont deserve your great UI. The number of ppl that support you will always out number those that dont.

Solution, maybe?
 

I don't normally like to get involved in public debates such as this, because so much of the public has a tendency to ignore facts and spew drivel. This makes the entire "debate" a pointless exercise most of the time. Still, I think it's important for Scott to see some responses from the public that aren't negative in nature. I really appreciate the support I've seen in this thread for Scott.

First my opinion: I think Scott is a great, hard working guy. I don't know him personally but I've been using nUI for years, and I've been sending him a (admittedly small) monthly donation for years. I think he was treated horribly when he asked for voluntary donations (before all this started) for his charity, and so many users responded by flaming him. I think Scott may have overreacted in his initial response, but that's perfectly understandable. Since that point, this issue has clearly spun out of control.

My thinking on the matter:

A. Continue to release the full version of nUI to the public.
B. Do not charge or restrict access (in any way) to said download of the full version of nUI.
C. Provide technical support and accept bug reports only on the nUI website subscriber section. Do not participate in support forums elsewhere.
D. Only provide access to the nUI website subscriber section to those who have donated, volunteer their time to assist, or that you (Scott) for whatever reason chose to grant access to.

I figure that this will insure that the code meets Blizzard's "free access" requirement, while keeping a buffer between Scott and the trolls with their highly overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

What do you think?

Legally, I don't think Blizzard's policy would standup in court (I am no legal expert though). That's like Apple saying you can't root the iPhone (That has already been challenged in court, and Apple lost), or Microsoft saying you can only use Internet Explorer. BUT from a technical stand point, I'm sure they have a ban list function of some kind that can recognize addons they don't like and put a stop to them.

Sigh.

I am overly glad to see not only public users(such as myself) but also other Add-on Authors posting in support of Scott and NUI.

Now, I haven't played WOW for about 6 months now, but prior to that NUI was my only way to play successfully. I tried other interfaces, but just didn't like how they performed, and always fell back to NUI when updates were available.

I tried helping on the support end, but ultimately my lack of Add-on programming experience limited me to simply posting bugs and testing stuff when I could.

I hope Blizzard doesn't do something drastic like block NUI, but I agree with many users here that the best course would be to continue to make the add-on freely available in its full version, but simply limit the support and bug reporting to those users who have demonstrated their willingness to help the community along.

I sincerely hope that NUI is still there for me when I do eventually come back to WOW.

Brokenhearted
 

I posted this in another thread, putting it over here as well:

Let me go on record as one who has played WoW since the vanilla days and has seen a HUGE shift in game experience over the years. When I first started playing WoW, the community was one of friendship and helping one another achieve success. Teamwork was the name of the game. You built friendships, you leveled your character and you joined guilds. Joining a guild created a sense of community that has been lost over the years. When new raids came out, we all raided in BG gear, because crafted epics were still considered quality gear at that time (another thing that has been changed that I think takes away from the community of the game) and none of us could afford crafted gear and we hadnt gotten our raiding epics yet so we used BG gear, affectionately termed "ghetto epics." Since WoW has grown in popularity, two major changes have occurred that, in my opinion, have destroyed the game. The first was the loss of community. When the servers were opened up the need to join a guild really became a thing of the past because people can now raid LFG their entire playing career and never really need a guild. That destroyed something that was key to WoW being a good game. The other thing that happened was the increase of children playing the game. Vanilla days consisted of a lot more adults playing than kids and over the last 5 - 6 years, that has changed greatly and now there are a lot more kids playing. Modern children live a life of privilege that those of us over 30 cannot comprehend and they have no values, morals or character. As a result, they treat people with absolutely no respect and that is now rampant across the community of WoW and has slowly chipped away at the sense of community and friendship that was so prevalent in vanilla days and now with the LFG change, that community has been obliterated. Unfortunately, Scott has gotten caught up in that change simply by trying to stand up for himself, as is his right by the way, and the result has been heartbreaking to watch as one who has supported his efforts both morally and from time to time financially over the years. All Scott has tried to do is attempt to maintain that sense of community that was once so prevalent in the game of WoW within his own environment of development and he has been called on the carpet for it as though he had thrown a temper tantrum, picked up his toys and gone home, which he has NOT done!! I have read every email he has written since this entire ridiculousness got started and he has been very clear, very concise and very professional the entire time. He has not demanded everyone pay for his addon, (which is ALSO his right, I might add!!) he has simply asked that those who have supported his efforts in the past and been a positive force in the development life of nUI sign up for a new list so that he can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Have any one of you people who have ripped Scott's heart open considered the vast amount of time and effort Scott has freely given over the last eight years? People make good money doing what he does for FREE!! In any other realm of society, he would be charging good money to PROFIT for his efforts because as a developer, that is his right, it's his product that he developed on his own!! Yet by standing up for himself he has apparently committed the cardinal sin in this community and he hasnt even hinted that he will be charging for nUI by moving it over to a private forum. In fact, he has offered that any donations that are made be given over to a charity organization!! I think everyone at Blizzard and at WOWI and Curse owe Scott and other developers like him a HUGE debt of gratitude because if it were not for developers like Scott, WOWI and Curse wouldnt even exist, but instead of supporting him, you have chosen to cut him out of the community all together. I am appalled by the reaction of this site. I used to think this site was the best addon site there was. I will rethink that should I ever return to playing WoW in the future, which at this point I'm not sure I will do since it seems the community has only gotten worse since I left last year.

If I were Scott, I'd simply walk away and not deal with this emotional deluge anymore and take my 36,000 users with me. But he has not done that, he has continued to try to work through the misunderstandings and problems to receive even more misunderstanding and abuse. This site has lost my support and I hope the other users of nUI that have been there over the years walk away from WOWI as well.

What is so hard to understand here?
 

I think Scott has made his point quite clear and honestly I can't blame him a bit:

* Pay for the software, you get it.
* Want it for FREE? There are several ways to do that too.

This isn't rocket science, folks.

The point here is only that Scott is getting tired of people treating him like crap. Nobody deserves that. If someone has issues or questions about software, there are ways to offer constructive criticism and ask for help WITHOUT treating someone like the stuff one scrapes off one's shoe. That goes for Scott as well as the people behind the scenes at Blizzard. (Note that I say this knowing that neither Scott nor Blizzard can or will do anything for me, now, or at any time.)

All this crap coming down on Scott makes it look like it's a legal requirement that he take abuse from people that should be locked off the Internet altogether, and likely put away in a tower somewhere for crimes against society as a whole. I'll tell you what, though-- with the direction this is going, the only people that are really going to lose are those in the Gaming Community.

Myself, I don't play WoW anymore, and ONLY for that reason I do not use nUI anymore. It's a good addon though, even if some people feel it isn't for them.

WOW Scott, this BS is still raging on huh.
Well, frankly, its your code, you don't have to put up with **** from others for it, and franklyIm inclined to tell anyone with an attitude about you not giving stuff away for free THEN getting bitched at for it that I have a brick wall outside you can address any and all complaints to. They can't be bothered to be mature adults about somehting they are not paying for, f***em as far as im concerned. I did email you a little while back as well regarding all of this nonsense. To me this sounds like a job I used to have in school.... I bounced some, and when people got out of hand, let them know they were out of line and to calm down, if they got more angry/rowdy, then I put a hand on their shoulder and escort them to the door. No bar needs the money that bad. In the same way, you do not need to put up with this type of immature BS from people, plain and simple.
You did what was within your rights, and if people hadn't picked the fight then pushed your hand the way they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I currently work in customer service, and the first thing I tell all new trainees is this, sometimes you need to let someone speak their mind, BUT, you are NOT a punching bag, you are here to help, you are not hear to be **** on and insulted by people, and certainly not to be cursed at and threatened by those that come form the shallow end of the gene pool.

Take care Scott, know that there are STILL ADULTS who use your software and appreciate what you have done.

Total Ignorance?
 

How illiterate or ignorant are some of these clowns???
Spiel's said it's still going to have FREE access still for months now and even uploaded updates a couple days ago.
If you're too lazy to write him a quick 10 second email for access, then you don't deserve the add-on that he's slaved away at for years and is hands down one of the most comprehensive and great to use adding available, and I've tried me all and been playing since vanilla.

And either Cairenn is just blunder-fully ignorant or just flat out lying, their thread is completely untrue.
There are multiple ways to get FREE access to the add-on still, that only take a few seconds, including wow matrix and curse. In either case Cairenn's blind and irrational jump to false judgment is extremely unprofessional, and not what you'd hope to see from an admin.
It just simply isn't true.

nUI sadness
 

It is so sad to see that such a war can start over nothing. To me nUI has been a must have from the first appearance. The man did a wonderful job of it at a time when he was down and out. He has never required payment for this add on, and I feel just like any body else, he would like a few bucks for a job well done, he would also like some return for his effort. Even though one can understand that WOW does not want people riding on their coat tails, or extorting the players, I can not see why it is such a big deal if some one does receive a few bucks. This whole thing is a series of misunderstandings and a couple of rude and ungrateful people mouthing off.

If you do not like him and his opinions, leave, you are free to do so. If you like him and his work, stay. Throw a few bucks his way, say thank you and go play WOW.

Scott I don't play wow anymore due to the asshats ,but when I was playing your addon was the one of choice I donated a few times because it was the moral thing to do to help compensate your time and research to keep it running ,I support the stand you are taking ,Someone needs to show the immature players it will not be tolerated any more .
Best of luck and continue fighting the good fight ..

/Salute

Affluenza...seems to be spreading
 

This is a direct quote from the Announcement made by Cairenn concerning the removal of nUI, which I believe raises an interesting point.

"...All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create “premium” versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on..."

That said, ladies and gentlemen, I offer you the following link;

http://www.wowinterface.com/premium.php

And there you have it. Directly from this very website...a PREMIUM service that can be paid for in 3-month, 6-month, or annual increments. Someone please tell me how nUI author K. Scott Piel and WoWInterface are different from each other in ANY way, given what that link will show you?

I quote again; All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Scott does that, as he has said many, MANY times. So does WoWInterface. You can use either one absolutely free for as long as you like. If you CHOOSE to offer money, whether in the form of a donation to a cause (nUI) or in payment for a service (WoWInterface), then it's exactly that...your choice!

I have been a loyal supporter of both nUI and WoWInterface for many years now, and this whole situation stinks to high heaven. At long last, someone with the dedication, passion, and skill to code a functional, useful collection of addons for WoW comes along, puts together a fantastic community of players, and now he's being treated like a tyrant simply because he isn't willing to deal with rude, demanding, selfish asshats (sorry Scott; love the term...had to borrow it! :) ) who think they deserve something for nothing?

I've spent the last few hours reading over the comments posted in various places about this issue and every single one of them is laced with hypocrisy...in SPADES! Scott has stated over and over and over again that people can still get nUI for free by several different methods, yet no one has bothered to mention that WoWInterface itself offers their Premium service at a fee? How is this not violating their own rules?!? I'll paraphrase here from the above quote, so there's no confusion;

"...may not...charge money to download an add-on..."
Hmm...let's see...yep, there it is! $29.99 annually, $17.95 every 6 months, or $9.99 a month for WoWInterface Premium!

"...charge for services related to the add-on..."
Oh wow...can you believe it?!? There it is again! $29.99 annually, $17.95 every 6 months, or $9.99 a month for WoWInterface Premium!

"...or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on..."
Woohoo! Three for three! $29.99 annually, $17.95 every 6 months, or $9.99 a month for WoWInterface Premium!

Now then, let's list the free options for nUI, since a great many folks don't seem to know how to read;

#1 - You can contact Scott directly via email and demonstrate how you've made a commitment to the nUI community by donation (which is 100% optional) or by direct assistance with coding, bug fixes, bug reporting, upgrades or suggestions, etc etc etc.

#2 - You can get a direct referral from another nUI user who has demonstrated their commitment to the nUI community. When another respected nUI community member sponsors you, you may access nUI downloads and support for free. (*This is an exact quote from the email Scott sent out to all nUI members.)


So...do you have to spend money to continue using nUI? No...you don't. Do you have to spend money to continue using WoWInterface? No...you don't. Can you choose to do either one? Absolutely. The moral of the story here is this; stop blasting Scott and accusing him of violating the rules when both of the major addon websites on the internet are making money hand over fist in the exact same way you're banning him for!!!

As for those folks (see also, "asshats") who seem to think they deserve everything about nUI in exchange for insults, explitives, lazy spelling, and horrid grammar? I cordially invite you to bend over, grab both ankles, and repeatedly back into the nearest doorknob...squat on a cactus...take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut on a gravel driveway...whatever might float your boat.

To K. Scott Piel himself, a single piece of advice; the "DELETE" button is your best friend! :)


Slainte!

::climbs down off soapbox and wanders back into the woods for some peace and quiet::

Sad to see
 

I am an avid nUI user, and I wholeheartedly agree. I have donated in the past, and will do so again if necessary. nUi is the only interface I will use, if it goes, then so does WoW, at least for me. This game has really gone to hell lately, so maybe ending my sub will ultimately make me happier. Way to go Scott.

Kestrelon, nice trolling. I dont see any addon-related payd feature on WoWI Premium, swing and a miss

If there so much u guys who support him, why u wont be moderators on his forum, if dealing with demanding donkeys is main issue here

To be honest, I didn't read your whole thing, and I want to say that I'm on your side...

But... WowInterface's premium options have nothing to do with access to the addons. They are strictly about custom username titles, a larger inbox, bigger avatar, and no ads. All of those things are basically profile customizations. Going premium doesn't enhance your access to addons, or your ability to upload your own addon, so comparing WI's premium to asking for donations isn't the same thing. (I don't believe either of them is wrong, for the record.)

misunderstandings abound
 

Ok,
First, Scott hasn't required you to pay for anything. He never has. To what
i have seen and read nUI has been one of his many contributions to the game that thousands of people have used for free. He did, as many others have done, ask for donations to help him keep the addon updated. Nobody had an issue with him asking for donations before, but when he asked for donations to a worthwhile cause people bauked. This project in the rain forests is not making him any money. In fact from what I have seen it is costing him alot of time, effort and cash. The response he got was uncalled for. He didn't require anyone to donate to get his hard work, yet people bashed him for asking for support.
Second,, it isn't his responsibility to continue supporting nUI publicly. He can make whatever addon he wants to and only share it with a few people. Private addons are not against Blizzards rules. If he were selling the addon outright or requiring a donation only then it would be. He has given everyone options to get the addon. One of those options is to donate. All he is asking for is for some simple respect from the people who want to use his hard work.
If you have never tried to write an addon yourself, you will never understand how much work goes into it. I have a few addons that I wrote for myself only. Am I breaking Blizzards rules because I am not giving them away? Should I give the addon away to people who tell me how terrible I am for not adding some feature, or do not have an update ready the moment a new patch drops?
I personally moved on to another addon, not because of Scott asking for donations, but because I kinda figured this would be how things would go down. Several people would get upset and complain because they can't get their way. Yes I am sure there are alot of people out there who were silently enjoying the addon(I am one of those silent ones). Yes it sucks that only a few people ruined it for the rest of us. I have emailed Scott a few times explaining how much I enjoyed his work, but explained I wouldn't ask for an invite until I felt I had properly returned some of the support he HAS shown us silent users for years.
I myself prefer unhindered access to addons, but that can't happen in a fair manner. Yes you have to pay to play the game, and it doesn't seem fair to have to pay for or jump through hoops to get extras. But thats just what they are, EXTRAS. Its someone elses hard work that adds to the game. I understand Blizzards view of addons. Noone should really be able to stand on their shoulders so to speak by writing an extra to the game and make money off of it without their permission. I also understand the addon authors side of the conversation. They put in alot of time and have to accept stupidity and rudeness for their work without any compensation. There is no right answer for that can of worms anyway.
Scott isn't doing anything wrong, its his work. He doesn't have to continue to support it, yet he still wants to. He isn't saying you have to pay me x amount of money to get the addon, he is giving you an option of donating to a cause. Thats not your only option. You could simply email him to show him you are not one of the mindless idiots who just want free stuff now without even going as far as to thank him for providing it.
It is rather sad how impersonal we have all gotten to each other. We have the greatest way of communication that has been invented to this point in time. Virtually everyone on the planet can communicate to each other almost instantaneously, yet because it isn't face to face we know we don't have to deal with the consequences of rudeness. Lets just spew off about how someone that is no longer giving us free stuff is infringing on our rights.

More haters?
 

I suppose I can see Blizz doing the whole money thing there, since they are a cash cow and think they can continue to do that. There should be no issue with having to pay for your nUI services since, afterall, you are helping tons of people for free regardless. Plus business is business, and businesses make money off businesses. This is jsut normal business. So for Blizz to butt into your business is jsut bad business. If someone doesn't want to pay for your product, then they can go find another product to use. nUI is not the only UI out there for WoW, there are quite a few, some more popular than nUI. So for Blizz to take issue over this is silly.

My support to you Scott. :)

Respectfully,

Tom

I have been Using nUI ever sincs I started playing WoW years ago. It was very helpfull as a new user and became even a bigger help in raiding and pvp. I must say nUI has helped me alot through my years of WoW, and I am very sorry for what happened to you scott. I think you are right in what you are doing, but I can also understand the response from Blizzard. I think the 'solution' posted here earlier sounds really great; make an intern group for bug reporting en stuff; and make a locked forum version to the public. Maybe that wil make everyone happier :)

Whatever you do; I think you are a great person in making nUI all these years for us and standing up with these bullies!

kind regards

The Full Monty
 

Long story, short:

Scott's right, Blizzard and WOWI are wrong.

The only reason Blizzard has been able to enforce the stance that it has with regards to addon authors requiring fees for their work is that they are the 100-pound gorilla in the room and the addon authors are lacking the financial backing to challenge it in court.

Could you imagine what the world would say if Microsoft suddenly started telling developers of Outlook Add-ins that they couldn't charge for their products? I'm sure the DOJ would be all over that in a heartbeat.

Scott, perhaps it's time to see if you can't find some high-powered legal services from your fan base which would be willing to take this to the courts pro-bono.

Ultimately, the only thing that Blizzard should be allowed to do if they don't want others profiting (lets be honest: a whole new market would add to the economy both in money spent and jobs created - oh duh! - imagine the goodwill Blizzard would create for itself by creating and supporting such markets!) from addons created using built-in capabilities to the WoW product is to remove those capabilities.

But to say that no one can benefit from the fruits of their labor is just so contrary to the principles on which the US was founded that it's simply ridiculous. Not to mention that you have a corporate conglomerate using the "don't be greedy" argument when they continue to rake in the millions.

Don't think so? Take a look here.

Asking nothing but expecting something might be a exercise in fancy ...
 

Apparently this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You clearly cannot see to such an extent that you were unable to read that Scott is planning and already does continue to offer his nUI free to all via several options.

Over the years I have used nUI and updated it because I saw for the work of art that it truly is. The improved functionality and cleanliness of the interface's design should have been adopted by Blizzard long ago at least as an option to users. This was a bad decision on their part and another bad decision is being made by them now by rewarding the rude and crude individuals that come to be crawling all over this game's environment by supporting their right to be offensive while still "entitled" to have unfettered access to insult anyone they choose. Blizzard says that they police the game for such users, but it is clear to me that if they did their subscriber base would be down far more than it is now.

I no longer actively participate in WoW partly because of the huge number of idiots who behave in such an discourteous and ungrateful manner and partly because I feel the new expansions have taken the game in a direction that lost much of its charm such as story line and mythology. Despite this I maintain a subscription so I can see if things get better (IMO). I also maintain my version of nUI to show the author that I agree with his artistic vision. I made a commitment to support his development efforts and the new vision that he has for our world. While I am far from a "Green" person, I do see value in preserving the opportunity to see pristine wilderness for the future.

I think that Blizzard is clearly reacting rather than completing their full investigation here and they are making an error in judgement. They require that the addon be free and Scott is continuing to offer it free of charge by certain methods. Does that mean that he has to offer it in a manner that allows individuals who insult him or treat him inappropriately? I would argue, no more than Blizzard has to allow people who violate its rules of conduct to continue to have access to their servers and game play. They after all are paid for the privilege of banning players, while Scott receives no direct payment. And yet it seems that many want to hold him to a higher standard and be the better man, while he receives no remuneration. I thought that such behavior was required of paid service people such as Blizzard and not the volunteers.

Continuing to be disappointed by many in the WoW community...

Avalar
A Blood Elf Rogue from Terokkar

Well done and who cares seriously it is still free through nuiaddons and curse. most of you are making this bigger than it needs to be.
Just need to be referred if I knew someone I would but I don't know anyone that does but I have never complained if something wasn't right. I don't hate him for what he is doing I think it takes balls to do it.
he is only asking for donations just like all addon developers do even curse do.
I use NUI+ and I love it best UI ever I have used heaps and it took me a long time to find one I liked, I will continue to download and patches from nuiaddons and curse and I hope I get onto his mailing list but if I don't oh well life goes on.
Good on you Spiel I hope the new website works out well

Scott is right, Blizz & WOWI are wrong!!
 

As an ex-WoW player and long time nUI user I've not only benefited from the support Scott freely gave/gives to users of his add-on, but for a while I was a subscriber. A couple of pounds for the convenience of getting all the latest updates direct to your inbox, that's well worth it. Buy the dev a coffee a month I think it was listed as :) Anyone calling this guy greedy deserves the title asshat, and should wear it with shame. Since you may stop paying the WoW subscription, there always that voice in the back of your mind saying one day you'll go back ;) who knows, but if I do I'll be dammed if I'm going without a working copy of nUI!
TL/DR?
Another post in support of Scott and nUI!

Agreed Keifel!

I have been with WoW since the beginning and started using nUI shortly after it was out.
It has always been free and still is. I have never had much extra cash myself, but managed
to donate to Scott's hard work from time to time.

Being in the IT business, I understand Scott's thinking.

I do not get to play WoW much now (once a week), but I enjoy it with nUI.

To Scott:
Thank you for your hard work, you have made my game better for sure!

Btw whats up with http://www.zygorguides.com/members/signup.php ?

They say its a "guide" but its nothing more than a custom made addon yet they charge 40$ and if you obtain it from some other means, its considered illegal according to them.

According to their FAQ:

http://www.zygorguides.com/forum/sho...r-Guides-F-A-Q

Yet
Another example:
http://manaview.com/tycoon/
http://www.manaview.com/booster/

Seriously? It sounds greedy? Maybe if he was paid by Blizzard and THEN tried to get more $$$ from you that would be greedy. As it is he is just trying to preserve what little sanity he has left from wasting years dealing with vitriolic, petulant children who seemingly suffer from "affluenza."

So by "better man" you mean a slave, right? Because that's essentially what Scott, and any addon dev, is under the current system. Just as a slave is required to work without pay and has no voice regarding the equitable distribution of the fruits of his labor so too is Scott prevented from determining who can and cannot use his creation.

Actually no. At least a slave received room and board. Pretty sure Scott doesn't even get that.

Yeah, actually you are attacking him and in very specific ways. Telling someone that what they are doing sickens you is an attack. Telling someone that they should just take it in the chin and agree to be bent over by a ridiculously unjust system is an attack. WowI derives profit from the work of people like Scott in the ad banner revenue they generate. Without people like Scott this site would have been a barren wasteland years ago.

It's interesting that you use Tukui and ElvUI as your example. Taken directly from the Tukui homepage:
Clearly you can see that Tukui is a TEAM ergo more than one person. Scott is not. That's what makes him so different.

Ok, it's been a while but if memory serves me correctly back in the stone ages when I fist downloaded Nui you could get a limited version on public servers and a better version if we signed up for the newsletter. Is it not still that way? It's been a while.

Also, if I may suggest, take your email out of the picture. Send from a non response email and just let anyone who needs to reach you do it from forums. No one should have to open a crapload of negative emails.

Your right, I forgot about the guide add ons costing. I bought two of those a few years back and it's nothing more than a PDF not worth reading and an addon. There was also a guild bank addon that kept up with member contributions and withdrawals that charged.

I feel for ya Scott and this reminds me all too well of another game that had a similar problem. The authors worked tirelessly and the result was dozens of amazing artistic mods that greatly enhanced the game. The problem was that as years progressed there was a slow but steady influx of trolls and *******s who seemed to mock everyone both user and artist alike. As they did so it caused ruckus after ruckus as more trolls seemed to make everything miserable for everyone. Eventually as was expected, the game itself began to lose its luster as more people decided to move on rather than deal with the drama. I myself was one of those people and to this day when ever I try to visit the old site that hosted that game I find yet more reasons for why it was a good thing to leave. If blizzard is gonna block nui then maybe its time to tell blizzard to good eat a stiffy for a fifty and move on to something else. I myself have already told blizzard to go sit on the big pole but if I may make one last suggestion, there is always something better on the horizon. Just keep an eye out for it and one day you will find that next great game to make an incredible mod.

Support for a great guy
 

I have been playing WOW since vanilla and have been using nUI for years. I have never been asked to pay a fee to access or download nUI or any of the many nUI added features. But that is not the point of what started this mess. After years of supporting WOW players by providing an interface that made the game a more natural and intuitive process Scoot approached what he viewed as a loyal community of followers for help in another project. He did not require anyone to send money, he simply asked what should have been a grateful nUI community to help him with a project in the real world. Many of us found this to be a reasonable means to request this assistance, after all we had freely given our email addresses to him in order to be kept up to date about changes to the nUI interface. Frankly, we give out our email addresses daily to numerous websites and never fault them for filling our inboxes with garbage. Why would Scott think that he would be slammed for making a request for help in one of his pet projects. But, as shakespeare said it, "...there's the rub...", the screams of foul didn't come from people who had at one time or another donated freely to the nUI project to help it continue when Scott was struggling. They came largely from those who had been using nUI for free without regard to the overwhelming amount of effort Scott made month after month, year after year to keep us up to date and functional with the interface despite numerous changes to how things worked in the game. So of course Scott was upset, anyone would be. He gave of his free time to make my/our game play better and yet he isn't allowed to ask for help outside the game...His response was simple and valid and I support it. Scott did not cut anyone out of using nUI, he did not change the policy of nUI access...hell just 2 days ago the lastest ugrades were available on Curse, Wowinterface and nUIaddons.com, still free to download...the Wowinterface still showed the regular popup window for donations if you wanted to make them, no demand for payment...

Scott I support you...the project was for a good cause and I appreciate you asking...I use your interface because I like it. I donated because I supported the project, not because I was required to...I use nUI because I like it, and I donate to support it because I want to...trolls be damned!

I support the nUI project as a whole, but people need to be realistic.

Blizzard has the final say in this, like it or not. They decide what can be done, and complaining on forums does nothing. Their addon policy isn't a legal matter, it's a company decision. It's not "We will pursue you in court for making a paid addon", it's 'We'll code out any addons that don't comply with our policy". It's their code; if they want to prevent it from interacting with a specific bit of outside code, they can.

Then we have the matter of people yelling 'entitlement'. Don't make addons if you expect to be paid. Blizzard specifically states they require addons be free of charge. If you make addons expecting monetary compensation, you'll end up disappointed. When you point out that Scott has spent days coding without getting anything in return, realize that he signed up for exactly that. Nobody tricked him, nobody lied to him. Better yet, in contrast with this slave metaphor I see thrown around, he does this purely out of his own will. He's not 'required' to do anything. Stuff like Zygor's only gets by because it's 'given free' with the actual purchase of the guide (and even then, 9/10 of its' users didn't buy it).

All this being said, Blizzard is not without fault. Perhaps they did not investigate enough, or they didn't elaborate on the policy enough. Regardless, I think it's something that should be handled between Blizzard and Scott. Without the hordes of opponents and proponents ranting on forums.

Also, because I feel it needs to be repeated.
Stop calling for legal action. The addon policy isn't a court matter, it's Blizzard telling us how they are going to code their game.

wow. people
 

Sorry for all the problems you are having Scott. Myself, I have quit playing WOW, at least for a bit.
I loved using your addon. WOW just got out of hand. But gotta say to those with a problem.

Not happy, just use Blizzards UI.