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Not sure what Shirik's plans are, but if he doesn't and I have time over the summer (and, can be motivated to write Java) I'll probably end up writing something to push versions to Curse/WoWI from Minion since the current script is held together with duck tape and magic. |
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I still believe that if Wowinterface did not put up the same block as Curse at the same time as Curse they would've been flooded with extra download requests and scrapping from wow matrix for addons. Quote:
I would of prefered that they come to the realisation that they need to work with the addon sites instead of against the addon sites. This is from an addon author side of things , not a adddon user side of things. If they really want to be hosting addons then they should be doing it for real - offer addon author submission tools , support forums and most importantly permission to host said addons. Instead of telling the users to pressure the addon authors to do so. Quote:
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but i don't really want another hosting site with its own ticket system, comments section, and support forum. i suspect most authors feel the same way. Quote:
edit: btw, poking around the net i learned that zam sued (or is suing) curse for copyright infringement, demanding $1mil. not sure if it was a friendly lawsuit or not. i couldn't read up on any details but i'm guessing it's related to the remarkable similarities between wowdb and wowhead. |
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Yes it's a big deal!! Now I don't have lunch today! |
"It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission." - Grace Hopper
[Edit] And for the record, in case anyone had any doubt - I, personally, and MMOUI, as a whole, completely disagree with that way of doing business. Just pointing out that it seems to be the way a lot of people do business. |
Sounds like shooting first and asking questions later.
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the relationship was instantly hostile. wowmatrix was the enemy, not a misguided community member. my sense -- and i could be wrong -- was that instead of trying to say, "yo, if you want to get into the addon game, this is what you need to do..." it was "f-off, creeps". Quote:
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As for how they started, yeah, they took addons without asking FIRST, then say 'hi everyone, I rep wowmatrix and thought I'd drop in to say thanks for the addons I'm redistributing". Asking first might have brought a much better result... but since they didn't ask, they were treated as anyone else would have been treated, under the same circumstances. Oh well. Quote:
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Yes I know it sucks from a user side of things. But IMHO it is the lesser of two evils - upset some people and have the site stay up or have the site go down and have no one able to access it. |
I want to clear something up.
We've been trying to block WM for a long time. So has Curse. They continued to circumvent our efforts. We both knew the only way for it to work and for WM to get the point was for both of us to work together and do it at the same time. We were working on this for a good 2 weeks or so before it went into place, with Dolby and Shirik sharing ideas back and forth with Kaelten and his guys at Curse. I don't know who came up with the idea of right before the patch. But, while it wasn't the best time for our users (our updater wasn't ready yet), as honem keeps trying to point out, it was NECESSARY to do it then for both sites. Both Curse and WoWI wanted their sites accessible for their users on patch day. If WM weren't blocked, the sites would have been crushed under the click-happy WM users and WM scraping the sites. If Curse had done it alone, WoWI would have been crushed still (moreso). If WoWI had done it alone, Curse would not see a performance boost either. The minute WM was blocked from Curse, their traffic went down 30%. The minute WoWI blocked them, it went down to 50% for us. While it is true that Curse was going to do it with or without us (for their own sanity on patch day), we needed to, too. |
Just for clarification between the "other updaters" and wowMatrix is that other updaters scanned your installed addons and had you configure where they came from or automatically figured that out. None of the independant updaters I knew/know of had a prebuilt list of addons for you to select from and install.
Cosmos' Installer as well as WAU are excluded as these programs where hosted by the site, a very different story than WUU / jWAU ect. This was one of the single biggest differences that really set the community on edge with it, compounded by the site parsing. ect. |
I find it hilarious that you guys still keep fighting over this in this way.
It's simple. You have 3 companies in the same market, but doing their business in different ways. This market is very dependant on goodwill from users. Suddenly these companies clashes. What do they do? Try to show that the other one is immoral, and to raise themselves to the sky's ofcourse Is WoWMatrix FAQ (the fact that it may be questions they want to answer, and not questions they were mailed doesn't matter, this is a pretty common way of naming it) twisting the truth? OFCOURSE THEY ARE! WoWInterface and Curse do the same thing. It's about making and maintaining goodwill. Marketing. I won't give examples of where WoWMatrix is bending the truth, you all know that already, but lets look at curse and wowinsider. At first they claimed that WoWMatrix hadn't in any way responded when trying to make deals. They were the evil pirates, ignoring everything, no parlay, harrr! Then WoWMatrix disputed this. They had had talks, and they had offered to pay. Curse/WoWinterface (cant remember who said what exacly) then change their story. Sure, there had been talks, but the deal offered by WoWMatrix was bad. Now, I don't dispute that the deal might have been bad, I don't know how much they offered. I'm talking about marketing here. We have 3 companies, all bending the truth to fit their needs. It's nothing strange. People, you need to learn to never take a pressrelease as full truth. All companies have an interest in making goodwill, companies online even more so. Don't swallow anyone's story whole, look at the big picture and use the gray thing inside your skull to see what makes sense. |
Wait... I'm sorry, what? Could you show me where we have "bent the truth" for good marketing? Where have we shown anything less than the truth? In addition, it was never any secret that Curse had spoken with WowMatrix on one occasion. This has been public knowledge since... last October iirc. They never responded to us, WoWInterface.
Now, I don't dispute that people should use their brains when looking at things - especially on the internet. (Hell - I often have to remind my students that they have a brain and they need to use it. Usually stated like this, "You have a brain in your head right? Then USE it!") But don't say that we have been anything but truthful without proof. Put that gray matter to use. ;) Many of your facts have been incorrect. |
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How do you know which is the truth and which is lies? Me personally I would believe the side that's been here since Day 1. Who provide free hosting, excellent support, tools to make uploading downloading & managing addons easier for both addon authors and addon users and a thriving community of helpful friendly people. A side that without whom there would not be as vibrant an addon community that there is today. A side that's gone as far as organise beta keys for addon authors so they can get their addons updated way before a PTR even opens. Can you guess which side that is ? Hint : It's not wow matrix. |
The fact that WoWI and Curse have both maintained a constant dialog with their users about this issue should tell you something about their honesty. Hmmm... Let's see... What has Wowmatrix done? Oh, yeah! They issued a "faq"! But not one that anyone could question in any kind of open debate! Oh, no! We can't have that! Many WM supporters have called the defenders of WoWI and Curse "blind followers". Well, I gotta tell ya... I feel a lot more insightful and informed by these multiple forums than by WM's one lousy "faq"! It kills me when people question the honesty of someone when that someone is offering them the opportunity, the privilege and the very means itself to present any arguments whatsoever!
I guess I'd better go take a chill-pill before I say something to earn a vacation.:cool: |
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http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...1&pageNo=23#33 * 445. Re: Wowmatrix: What's it really doing? 01/29/2009 05:04:51 PM PST This was posted by Kaelten on January and its only a fraction of proof that no 'story' has ever changed. It was known to the WoWAce regulars long before that. Note that this is several months before WoWMatrix even had a "FAQ" focusing entirely on the Curse/WoWI 'incident'. |
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They didn't get a clue back then and they apparently don't have a clue now. :p They still appear to be acting like creeps. The first reaction to Wowmatrix seems to be a valid one. Having a good sense of ethics when developing a business is a must in modern times. If you treat others poorly and without respect, you will be treated poorly, do poorly and lack respect in return. This does, by no means, mean that everyone starts out with good ethics or ends with good ethics. Businesses are run by people who can make mistakes. The smart people and businesses learn from them. Continuing to follow poor ethics and bad practice can only lead to disaster. Think of it as being environmentally responsible. The Internet can be a complex environment. Cheating your way through it is akin to leaving your trash everywhere you go, except that it all has your name on it. :p Sadly, Wowmatrix could have done what WoWI is doing now with their new updater, made it into something that's beneficial to all who use it, not just Wowmatrix. Instead, they decided to take what wasn't given to them. You can't take respect (although you can try to fake it with fear tactics and plain ol' hogwash), you have to earn it. Modifying game files (settings) without the user's knowledge or permission is totally wrong, if not criminal (akin to trojan-like behavior). :mad: Then again, this is probably why Blizzard™ says to disable all add-ons to fix problems. This means they don't have to figure out who did what. Although changing game settings still could, in theory, cause problems beyond the add-ons themselves by interfering with the normal or expected operation of the game. I wonder what Blizzard™ thinks of Wowmatrix and their business ethics... ;) Note: True respect is given freely as a tribute to greatness in whatever manner one perceives it, not by force, fear or lies. False respect can brutally turn against those who seek it in the first place. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, as the saying goes. No one likes being made a fool. Second chances can be tough (depending on the reason for it) and are usually scrutinized very closely. |
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