Why is WowMatrix still around?
I noticed this discussion on mmochamp (concerning the Curse Client, ads and Minion). But I wonder why so many people still advocate using WowMatrix. Why is it still around anyway, after all the mess that had happened years ago? Or are they nowadays hosting the addons themselves and complying to the addon licenses?
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I think there's always a certain subset of any community, that cares more about what they want, than whether it's right or fair. On top of that, as long as the drawbacks of not changing, are significantly worse than the effort of changing, many people will simply continue on using what they're comfortable with.
At least that's my theory. |
The people I asked said the matrix installer simply works. It takes not long to show them different when it comes to updating many addons that aren't popular but everyone who ran into trouble installing curse-client knows what a pita it is to find out why.
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SolidIce/WoWMatrix won't necessarily go away although I'd be surprised if at least SolidIce isn't still leeching from Curse. I could be wrong...
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This is one of the drawbacks of open source / permissive licenses then... WowMatrix is there to stay apparently. If they made their client open source, used p2p (like Popcorn Time) and had better crawlers it might even be superior
I believe in open source / creative commons. All my addons are public domain because honestly, I didn't care. Good things such as Thingiverse, Arduino and Lua come to mind. But not when sites or clients such as WowMatrix keep leeching FREE ADDONS while having gold seller ads on their website The worst part is that most people don't even seem to care. Although, this made me realize how I have a different standard and still casually download cars from torrent sites Sorry for reviving this, long dead discussion |
I stopped using wow matrix YEARS ago after I found out they was leeching addons without people permission. I don't support stealing. ;)
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By contrast, WoW addons are completely free, so it's not like you "need" to pirate them because you can't afford all the addons you want. The root cause for addon leech sites like WowMatrix and SolidIce isn't user demand -- it's greedy operators who see an easy way to make a quick buck from ad impressions by convincing clueless users they're a better source for addons than legitimate sites. While it may have been true that WowMatrix was a better addon installer/updater than the Curse Client 5 years ago, I just don't think that's true anymore -- the Curse Client is certainly not a thing of beauty, but it does what it says on the tin, and is so simple to install and use a toddler could do it -- and WM/SI users are certainly at a disadvantage when it comes to selection. The only reason these people keep running/launching these sites is to make money for themselves. |
Hello All,
I hope all those in attendance had an enojoyable Blizzcon. I want to honor Cairenn's wishes about not promoting on WoWInterface, but seeing as we are being discussed, I hope this reply and any futhers ones in this thread are allowed / warranted. I understand SolidICE did not get off on a good start, but I think we are making efforts to mend those ties, if they are being received well or not, I am not sure, my chances to interact with authors has been unfortunately limited. Ide really like to adress this quote in particular: Quote:
SolidICE is adhering to all licenses at this point, and has been for some time, as stated by Torhal, if a author does not agree with the restrictions that a license provides, they can use a more restrictive license such as All Rights Reserved. I'm confused why you would use a non restrictive license if you did not agree with its conditions. With the first portion of your quote Phanx, you mention how these sites are looking to make a quick buck. And i will not argue that there of-course is financial motivation, but is that not at least one of the motivations behind Curse and WoWInterface. I am sure the Devs for these two sites are not working for free and eating Ramen for dinner every night, at least I would hope not. Whether SolidICE, Curse, Or WoWInterface provides the best service, experience, or tools for the authors is something the authors ultimately will decide, but I don't think that because Site A does not currently provide all of the tools Site B provides, that it makes Site A illigetimate, or that they offer nothing to a prospective user base. We are working to not only Financially motivate ourselves, but to transfer that financial profits to the addon authors who worked so hard to create those addons. I won't go into any details of that as I don't want to cross Cairenn's wishes, but the information can be found on our site. I hope we are able to have this discussion. Thanks -Ron |
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And you're still giving authors a big middle finger with this statement: Quote:
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Many of these open source permissive licenses specifically state that hosting is unrestricted, and allowed, its not that these licenses are saying "that not illegal", they are specifically saying "that is allowed, I am allowing and inviting you to do this". For that reason I feel your examples don't really accurately represent a valid comparison. Some authors which have open source permissive license have asked us to remove them, and I gladly do so. I haven't ignored any authors direct requests to remove their addons. I know Fizzle's stance on this, they shouldn't even have to ask, but this goes back to the using an appropriate license discussion. Can you give me some insight Phanx on why you would use a open source license but also prefer restrictions on hosting? I know alot of your addons are ARR and this might not apply to you, but do you have any opensource addons, if so, do those licenses not represent your wishes? Whether SolidICE hosting opensource addons is moral or not is for each person to decide for themselves, and I can see your opinion quite clearly, a more relevant discussion I feel is about which license authors choose, why, and if they represent their wishes, and if not, why would they choose such a license. |
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I didn't have to ask because I don't host on Curse. If I did, there is every possibility I would have been made to ask. |
Your actions have shown quite clearly that do not actually care about the wishes of addon authors, so whether or not hobbyists chose the "best" software license for their free MMO UI mod doesn't seem particularly relevant. Most addon authors are neither professional programmers nor lawyers, but you're nitpicking over legal terms rather than considering what the creators of the content you're aiming to monetize actually want done with their content.
You keep trying to brush off your mistakes with "that's in the past, can't we just forget about it and be friends?" but I've never seen any post that sounded like you were genuinely sorry for your mistakes, or really understood why addon authors were upset, only sorry to have been called out on it and sorry that it's tarnished your site's reputation, and puzzled as to why we all just couldn't see how you were really doing us a big favor. Your public response to every request to remove addons from your site that I've seen has had more of a "well fine, if you reeeeeeally mean it, but please change your mind" vibe, and the responses from your co-siterunner Tiny are flat-out rude and insulting. Quote:
I'd guess that many, if not most, addon authors who chose an open-source license dedicated absolutely zero thought to whether they wanted (arguably) unethical sites redistributing their work without asking first or even letting them know, and just thought "hey, I benefitted a lot from looking at other people's code, and maybe even used some of it in my addon, I want other people to be able to benefit from my code the same way". Personally, I did research and wrote my own license, but not everyone has the time or ability to do that, or is even aware they can do that. Quote:
Unfortunately, that accuracy did not stop you from leeching my addons even after I asked you to stop, because you continued to use a flawed "opt out" model (all licenses are okay except this one) rather than a more robust "opt in" model (only these licenses are okay) and it's been my experience in dealing with other sites and other addon authors that very few people even know what words like "redistribution" mean, so I've really come to view the whole thing as largely pointless, and am just going with a straight-up "all rights reserved" for my newer addons since it's much more widely known that "all rights reserved" means "no". :rolleyes: |
Alright, I think that's enough of the back and forth here... Move along folks, and enjoy the rest of your night (or day). :)
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