[us2006027321]

Text-well incoming... Please don't respond if you're going to TL: DR the thing.

Originally Posted by isaacquotien while the response above is definitely a good lesson on piracy......i really dont see how it applies to wowmatrix. wowmatrix does not equate with pirate nate....because..to do so would equate nick with curse.....or even it it was supposed to be an addon author....the bottom line is that according to the story, they are in the business of making money.

You're missing something crucial in my analogy, and you have misassigned identities. There are four entity types at work in the real situation: the developer, the people who make the developers work available at the dev's request, the end user, and the person violating the dev's rights and stealing from the dev and the dev's representative. In my analogy, the dev was Nick, the dev's rep was Joel, the end user was the end user, and the hacker was Nate. Sean was just a necessary bystander in the analogy. In reality, Nick would be the add-on devoper, Joel would be Curse or WoWInterface, and Nate would be WoWMatrix, and here's why:

The add-on developers have chosen to make their add-ons available expressly by WoWI and Curse. There are reasons for this! WoWI and Curse make developer tools available and also give the developers the opportunity to openly solicit donations. The developers have the right as given to them by intellectual and copyright property laws to restrict who hosts their add-ons. WoWMatrix walked in and began violating all kinds of laws right and left by the steps they were taking to make add-ons available to their users and here's how:

Deep-linking
This is similar to how some people post backgrounds on their MySpace pages. A MySpace user sees a background he likes, copies the url and uses and "img src" HTML tag to post the website's image to their own page without hosting it themselves through their own account on an image-hosting site (which isn't always legal either). The original website only has so much bandwidth available for that kind of access. Every time someone visits that MySpace user's page and sees the background, the MySpace user actually uses some of the original website's bandwidth.

A similar transaction was taking place every time WoWMatrix "deep-linked" certain add-ons. WoWMatrix, rather than host the mod on their own site, would hot-link to Curse or WoWInterface in order for their users to download the add-on. This would use up Curse or WoWInterface's bandwidth. The usage of bandwidth isn't so much the issue. Yes, it's true that the bandwidth would be used whether the users went through WoWMatrix, WoWInterface, or Curse. The problem comes in when you consider that (much like in my analogy) WoW and CC are paying for their bandwidth through the banner adds on their repsective sites. If WM is deep-linking, people are using bandwidth without seeing the adds that sponsor the bandwidth. The add sponsors are losing potential customers, and herein lies the crime of theft (as explained in my analogy). Furthermore, WM is violating copyright and intellectual property laws because they do not have the express permission of the developers to make the add-on available (with exception to the add-ons that were appropriately licensed for that hosting).

I should note that in my explanation of deep-linking, I have compared it to hot-linking, and I'm aware they are not the same. They are similar (word I used intentionally), and that is why I have compared them.

Hosting
WoWMatrix did not deep-link all the add-ons they made available. Some of them were being hosted as a result of an exploitation of certain copyright and intellectual property laws. While they didn't have the dev's express consent, it was legal. There were times, however, when a dev would find out what was going on and ask WM not to host their add-on anymore. Sometimes, WM would comply, and sometimes, they would not. (Mind you, I'm not implying any malicious intent here. I'm sure some communications just got lost in the cracks. ) When WM did not comply with the dev's request, they were then in violation of those laws. In several cases, when they did comply with the dev's request, they would resort back to deep-linking in order to make the add-on available, and we've discussed the legality of that (or the lack thereof). In many situations, they weren't crediting the dev's for their work which, according to the licenses, is never legal.

Code and/or File Alteration
In some instances, WoWMatrix was providing altered versions of the add-ons they were hosting. I don't know that they themselves were altering the code, and I have no proof to that end. There is the possibility that someone was altering before it got to them. We're not sure what was going on there, and WM has plausible deniability working in their favor, so we won't touch that too much. Whatever the source of the altered code, they were hosting it, and none of the licenses being applied to the dev's original work (to my knowledge) allow for altered work of the code, especially when it is being distributed under the same name as the same thing.

Allegations have been made that the specific lines of code that were being altered were ones concerning donations being made to the developer. Unless each developer has a 501(c)(3) tax exemption or they are umbrella'd with a 501(c)(3) organization, the "donations" they would be receiving would be considered profit by tax and business law. While removing these lines of code would be theft of potential profit, prosecuting that theft would leave the developers open for negative tax and legal repercussions. Regardless, the removal of those lines of code and hosting altered code are illegal.

Originally Posted by isaacquotien Blizzard has PLAINLY STATED THAT ADDONS TO THE GAME ARE NOT TO PAID FOR....which is why carbonite and others had to cease and desist. so then we move back to the donation realm, to which i have donated to authors i have wanted to and so have others i am sure. but thats the point.....ITS A DONATION, which means that there is NO EXPECTATION OF PAY IN RETURN FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THE SOFTWARE. So my question is how can there be piracy of something that has been determined by the DEVELOPER of the original content to be FREE.

It is my pleasure to answer that question for you. The developer is not charging for the content, and neither are WoWI or Curse. Curse is the only one (to my knowledge) who was charging for anything, and the charge was for an optional premium membership, not for the add-ons themselves. Not only so, but Curse was in no way inhibiting anyone from downloading add-ons just because they didn't have a premium account. Albeit they are making it a little more cumbersome, they are not making it impossible. Therefore, on a strictly legal note, it isn't illegal for Curse to charge the way they are. (I should note that while I think it's not cool to do it and fully disagree with it, they are well within their rights to, and if someone wants to pay for Curse's service, Curse should have the opportunity to make the money. That's what happens when you live among capitalists.)

The piracy of the content itself comes in when WM is violating copyright and intellectual property rights, and I think I explained that fairly enough in my previous section.

Originally Posted by isaacquotien now in terms of bandwidth....this appears to be something that is claimed as being stolen.....where as the truth of the matter is that the websites by their structure allowed for automated downloading...they just want you to use THEIR downloading tool....curse tried that for awhile and in the competitive market they FAILED...their updater sucked.....so (in my opinion) they resorted to killing the competition. the real crux is that the websites like this wonderful site rely on donations and advertising to pay the fee that THEY ENCURE in DECIDING to HOST the addons that they do. all wowmatrix did in terms of bandwidth was go get the addons that i would have to do manually....thats the ONLY bandwidth issue.....but....because wowmatrix went and got them for me....remember....I AM DIRECTING wowmatrix to get them for me (and only me)....I am not directing wowmatrix to go and them for my entire guild or anything like that.....then...the problem comes down to the fact that i didnt have to go to the website and and therefore the "number hits" on the website goes down....which impacts the revenue generation based on advertising....while the bandwidth stays the same.

I agree with you that the Curse updater is... bothersome for me to use. (I'm being diplomatic. I like Cairenn and wish to respect her flame policy, but I also have to not violate my policy of being honest. ) I also agree with you that for a while the sites did have exploits for automated downloading. It is worth your attention to note however, that those were exploits, and it was not WoWI's or Curse's intention to have anyone automating downloads for their site that wasn't them or one of their users. In the situation of Curse where they are clearly out to make money in some fashion (insert a reference to premium memberships here), I would not be surprised that their motivation in part was to eliminate unfriendly competition. I have not seen anything from WoWI that says making money is their goal. I should also underscore to you the fact that Curse has allied themselves with WoWI, and WoWI could easily be competition. Ultimately, I don't think competition is the issue here. When one keeps an objective eye on the issue, no matter how petty it might seem to you, bandwidth really was the issue, and when WM did them the "favor" (LoL) of showing them exploits in their security, security got an upgrade.

It is legal for you, the end user, to download content from the original source in ways that are legally compliant with copyright and intellectual property law. However, WM is not the end user, and what WM did was not fully legal. That is the ultimate problem.

As I've already stated, the issue of the deep-linking was robbing Curse's and WoWI's add sponsors of potential customers and was therefore illegal, but it's also just flat-out disrespectful. They were asked to stop, and they didn't. WM had several chances to rectify the problem. When they started out, they could have asked Curse and WoWI for help in making add-ons available to everyone. Instead, they walked every legal line they could (and even crossed them in may instances), and when they were asked to just cut losses and go away, they wouldn't.

Originally Posted by isaacquotien individual websites are purely within their right to take steps to restrict access in order to limit costs incurred.

You bet they are!

Originally Posted by isaacquotien In all of these posts, it seems that people want to make one side or the other the bad guys....but thats really not the case in my opinion.

I respect the objectivity of your statement. It's up to you how much you consider the emotional issue of the morality associated with everyone's actions, and I'm glad you're capable of seperating that from what's going on, but if you simply take the stance of an imformed, objective observer, you can't help but see the primary illegality of WM's actions.

Originally Posted by isaacquotien I do think that there could have been better choices made on both sides that probably could have resulted in a collaborative effort that would have been a win-win....but thats just me. My bet is that, as in so many other areas of life, ego's got involved....positions became hardened, and decisions were made in self interest rather than the greater good.

I think that is the most objective thing you've said among all the objective things you've said, and I agree with you that had egos not been involved and diplomacy been better exercised, it is likely that most of this could have been avoided.

Originally Posted by isaacquotien where does that leave us.....well....i use wowmatrix to update the addons that they have available....and i am back to going to wowI to get the addons they have...and curse to get the addons they have....which is what curse and wowI needed in order to generate revenue to continue hosting thier stuff. I am saddened that there wasn't a way found to work together, as it just makes it harder on me....but...since wowmatrix has an updater that is FREE and WORKS with a simple interface and one click update....i will gladly donate to them in order to increase the number addons they can support and reduce the bandwidth impact of downloads for curse and wowI so that it falls in line with their business model and they can afford the bandwidth they need. I will continue to donate to wowI because its just such a cool site and i enjoy the atmosphere!!! As far as curse goes, i have never really cared for their site and will NEVER click on an add or pay for any service from them and if i can back to a time when i dont have to go their website to get addons that would be wonderful. Most importantly.....as a consumer, i will let my money speak and donate to the things I CHOOSE to.

And you are well within your rights to make that decision. You should take a look at the WoWI's Minion when it is completed. From the sounds of it, WoWI found a way to legally and freely make it possible for everyone work together as much as they would be able to (after everything has happened) and still leave the ultimate control of who gets what from what site in the end users hands. I look forward to giving Minion a good try, and you should, too.