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07-27-12, 01:11 AM | #21 | |
Over at curse I created my "own" license for the same reasons. To make sure no automated 3rd party scans for OS licenses to copy my addons elsewhere and still make sure someone reading it knows that its ok with me to reuse my code.
PIY - Paint It Yellow
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The cataclysm broke the world ... and the pandas could not fix it! |
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07-27-12, 04:14 AM | #22 |
All of my addons are "Public Domain", both on WoWI and Curse .. but that's probably because I was naive and they don't have a large userbase anyway
I'd say Mine, all mine! still beats all others though |
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07-27-12, 04:51 AM | #23 |
I definitely assume authors have explicit rights on their work - and as a result, if I've been editing/butchering/etc... the hell out of their addons, but I've tried to make sure I contact the author and ask for permission (if I release it in a compilation).
May be annoying for the author, but I did a TON of work on EQ2 addons and had multiple people use my exact work and call it their own. Regardless, it felt bad... man, so I'll take the time to verify my ability to butcher/re-release their work - because they did the work and it's their call (imo). PS - If I've used your work in my compilation and haven't asked/credited your work - please send me a PM and I'll rectify this injustice. |
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07-27-12, 05:32 AM | #24 | |
On a semi-related note, something WoWI could do would be to add a license metadata field to addon pages. The approach taken by Curse is pretty good -- you can either pick from a list of popular licenses like the GPL and MIT, or you can enter your own, and if you don't pick or enter anything, it defaults to "all rights reserved". In the end, though, rather than trying to get WoWI to push open source ideology on hobbyists -- many of whom don't know or care about the differences between copyrights, licenses, trademarks, patents, etc -- simply contacting individual authors if there is a question or concern about the status of their addon is probably the best course of action. Explain what you want to do, and explain how your ability to do it is affected by their license (or lack thereof). Unless the author no longer uses the email address they registered on the site with, they will probably be happy to give you permission to do whatever it is you want to do. If you don't have anything specific in mind, and are just assuming that the reason nobody is actively maintaining an addon is because it's not "open source", you're probably wrong. Chances are, it's simply because nobody has the skills, time, and desire to take on someone else's project and support it.
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Retired author of too many addons. Message me if you're interested in taking over one of my addons. Don’t message me about addon bugs or programming questions. |
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07-27-12, 08:27 AM | #25 | |
This license wouldn't change a thing to be honest, not regarding to the speed up updates or the creation of new addons. Fact is people and the devs get bored of the game, and slowly more update less and in the end disappear from the grid. What happens is people that got time and want to either submit patches or make a fork, give proper credits to the original author. If it's too much work to update it, the addon dies and people find alternatives. For example I've noticed over the past year that Carbonite has slowed down development, often it's just patches to keep the addon working with the current game build. I am not sure what happens in MoP but if someone here wanted to make a Carbonite addon or update it, I am sure they can submit patches or make their own fork of it, as long proper credit is given I see no problem. Maybe I am naïve, maybe there is a problem, but I just don't see it. :P |
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08-08-12, 07:31 AM | #26 | |
You'd be far better trying to get permission from the author. Some authors may simply be taking a break waiting for the next expansion (particularly this close to an expansion). If the author wants their mod updated, they'd either update it or change the license so that others could pick up their work. If a mod is left "abandoned" online, it may be the case that the author has done so on purpose that they can point to it and instruct the hosting service to take down any subsequent clones that appear, with the mods update history establishing the authors ownership. |
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08-08-12, 01:04 PM | #27 |
I meant abandoned as in gave up on, usually they write that or I would have asked first.
Also depends on what the addon does, if it makes MSBT show a specific text on screen, it's kind of addon you can code on your own without copying anything than the idea, and you can't copyright or reserve an idea, or did Apple make it possible now? :P Anyway yeah, abandoned does not mean "not updated for a while" because that doesn't say much. |
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08-08-12, 04:42 PM | #28 |
Ahh that okay. I didn't want you getting into trouble with WoWI / copyright holders, or others thinking that it was okay to just go around updating old ARR mods with permission.
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08-08-12, 09:11 PM | #29 |
Aimed at no one in particular:
All Rights Reserved is great. It grants authors legal protection and control over their creations. While there is little scope to make money from WoW mods when taken as a whole, the underpinning proprietary routines may well have commercial value elsewhere. Regardless, it's the authors legal right to determine the future of their creations and choose a license that best fits their needs. If that choice were to be denied, many authors would either keep their mods private or release them via a more accommodating hosting service. As for authors being selfish for choosing to use All Rights Reserved? Really? It's true that the relationship between authors and users is one of give and take: The authors do virtually all of the giving (i.e. investing hundreds of hours into developing and supporting their mods, sharing them for free etc), while the end-users pretty much just take (i.e. download and use). If the authors are selfish, I'm really not seeing it. The main issue is that some players seem to think that they are somehow entitled to unlimited, unpaid support ad infinitum. They aren't. They also seem to believe that they have some god given right to use a mod forever and that it should always work. They don't and it won't. When an author does decide to cease development of a mod (either permanently or temporarily), it's time to move on and find an alternative. If an alternative can't be found then it's time to make do without one or learn how to create your own. Instead of berating the author for ceasing development perhaps it would be better to thank them for the many months/years of support in the past. Last edited by Unbelievable : 08-16-12 at 01:56 AM. |
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08-12-12, 02:18 AM | #30 | |||
To my way of thinking this lets all authors be informed of what exactly can and cannot be done with their work, and also displays this information for users of the site.
Finally, while it is really great that you are able to be contacted, take suggestions and so forth, and while I have seen authors who very clearly announce that they are leaving WoW and calling for others to take up the reigns of their addon(s), one of the OP's points is that authors sometimes drop out of the community for various reasons and never return. Those people can't just be contacted and asked if someone else can take over. I'm certainly not advocating that everything should be open, as I greatly value the work that addon authors put into their craft, without compensation other than relative fame on sites like these. Also, having 55 versions of whatever addon floating around is/can be a huge nuisance as ignorant users find their way back to the real author and report problems the poor author has no way of knowing about in a broken addon obtained on some random site. However I do think that a solution could be reached that would satisfy everyone in this matter. Also, I think there might be authors who might not even be aware of their rights regarding code or artwork when they submit it to sites like these. Having a more detailed submission process would help those authors as well.
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Arise, my champion! Last edited by sakurakira : 08-12-12 at 02:22 AM. |
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08-12-12, 02:37 AM | #31 |
It's on our list, has been for quite some time. Unfortunately, it's a fairly long list. =/
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08-12-12, 07:41 AM | #32 |
I have no thoughts on this particular issue not being an addon author, but I did read the first post and I thought I'd mention a few good pieces of news. Shefki has come back in fact (he even dropped a word at the UI forums) and is working on Pitbull updates for MoP. There is an alpha that's MoP ready up on wowace though he's still tweaking it.
Same goes for XPerl though XPerl is lagging a bit behind as XPerl had a lot of issues in 4.3 even that went unfixed a while. The authors seem to be catching up with the bugs (at least from what I can tell from the changelogs, also on wowace) and the outlook on MoP readiness is looking good right now. Perl Classic MoP version has been up a while and there's also been Perl Lite which is an oUF look-alike version of XPerl (this one also on wowace). oUF and many oUF layouts seem to be MoP ready as well though only MoP ready version of oUF I could find was on github. It seemed pretty dismal at the start of the MoP beta I admit, and I've been on the side compiling a list of MoP ready addons by category (http://www.plusheal.com/forum/m/1833...p-ready-addons), trying to keep track of this, but I looked at it recently and it's grown quite a bit. I hold out hope that most of the essential addons will be MoP ready. There still will be those that get left behind I'm sure but so far I've been able to find alternatives to everything I was looking for. So far the most dismal category has to do with talent/glyph/actionbar switching on profiles/talent/ability switch (only actionbar saver is up) and also LDB displays (only DockingStation which is a bit of a shock considering number of LDB plugins which are already MoP ready). Oh and regarding buffbar mods, you can try Raven which has a MoP ready version out, in place of EBB. Last edited by zohar101 : 08-12-12 at 08:39 AM. |
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08-12-12, 08:51 PM | #33 | ||||
Besides, you can't copy code from an addon you don't have, and if you have a copy of an addon to view its code, you also have a copy of its license.
The authors who "go through the trouble" of writing their own license are almost certainly aware that the GPL et al. exist, and have intentionally chosen not to use them. I don't think it's very likely that WoWI adding an optional "pick one of these popular licenses" select box to the addon submission form would change their mind about how to license their work.
It sucks when an addon you really liked gets left by the wayside, but if it turns out you're one of only 10 people who were using the addon, there's not much motivation for strangers to go out of their way and spend their time writing addons just for you. If you really can't play without the addon, I guess your choices are (a) quit WoW, (b) reexamine your gameplay style, or (c) learn Lua and write your own addon. I think Unbelievable said it pretty well:
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Retired author of too many addons. Message me if you're interested in taking over one of my addons. Don’t message me about addon bugs or programming questions. |
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08-12-12, 09:07 PM | #34 |
I've been around for every expansion's beta phase, and I'm always surprised by this kind of attitude. So many people seem to expect that every addon author gets into the beta right away, that every addon author has time to spent hours and hours updating all of their addons right away, and/or that updating addons just doesn't take any time at all. Most addon authors have a host of other obligations -- a day job, a family, a raid schedule to keep, a personal life outside of WoW -- that limit how much time they can -- or want to -- spend updating addons for a beta test that's months away from a release.
Another consideration that usually gets overlooked is that many addons don't need to be updated at all. You likely won't ever see a special "beta version" of such addons; you can just check the "Load out of date addons" box and you're good to go. I think most LDB displays fall under the umbrella of "addons that work without any updates". Bazooka and Barrel work just fine.
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Retired author of too many addons. Message me if you're interested in taking over one of my addons. Don’t message me about addon bugs or programming questions. |
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08-13-12, 04:56 AM | #35 | ||
I meant there was a lot of grumbling about the MoP as an expansion in general, not quite as much interest in it (likely due to the fact it's 4th expansion) and a few authors leaving mid-cata (with no real word whether they'll be back), that I thought, this expansion may be problematic addon wise if a lot of addon authors lose interest in the game. Recent comebacks and updates have made me hopeful as I've tried to convey with the previous post.
Last edited by zohar101 : 08-13-12 at 05:10 AM. |
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08-13-12, 05:32 AM | #36 | |||
For kicks, I downloaded some addons on the "What's Hot?" list here. Carbonite and DBM both have license files, while Bartender4 and GearScore do not.
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Arise, my champion! Last edited by sakurakira : 08-13-12 at 05:47 AM. |
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08-13-12, 05:49 AM | #37 |
This kind of discussion is why I just upload all of my addons as Copyleft All Rights Reversed (pardon the old discordian phrasing). The way I look at it, no matter what some one, some where, will probably use some of my code without asking, so instead I use Copyleft so that no one has to track me down to ask.
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08-13-12, 04:46 PM | #38 | |||||
Look at it another way -- let's say you find a trilogy you really, really like, but the third book isn't out yet. Now let's say the third book never comes out. Do you think the author is obligated to spend months or -- more likely -- years of their life writing another book that they don't really have any interest in writing? Do you think the author should be forced to put their work into the public domain, or give another writer permission to use their characters, their world, and their story to write the third installation in the trilogy?
It only matters whether people trying to upload an addon know what's allowed, and WoWI already includes a statement on the upload page about this, and has always been very good about removing uploads that violate someone else's copyright when notified by the copyright holder. If someone ignores the "don't upload other people's work without permission" notice, or doesn't understand what it means, adding an optional "pick a license" field on the upload page probably would not change anything.
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Retired author of too many addons. Message me if you're interested in taking over one of my addons. Don’t message me about addon bugs or programming questions. Last edited by Phanx : 08-13-12 at 04:58 PM. |
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08-13-12, 07:07 PM | #39 | |
Never, at any time, did I hint, suggest, or otherwise state that addon authors are "obligated" to do anything. I just simply think it would be nice, if WoWI provided the option, for all authors, no matter their education level about licensing, to put something other than the default ARR on their addons, especially if they were previously ignorant about such options existing.
By the current system it's up to the author to notify WoWI about any violations? What happens if a non-author reports an addon violation? Let's say I report that New Addon X is a ripoff of Abandoned Addon Y. Well Maybe the author of Abandoned Addon Y wouldn't even care about it, but we don't know if the default license is ARR and the author cannot be contacted. Would WoWI remove the New Addon X "just to be safe"? If the answer is yes, and the reasoning is because regardless of a single absent author's wishes, this method is better for the community as a whole, I disagree. I think more options are better, for everyone, in the long run.
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08-13-12, 08:29 PM | #40 | ||||
Content publishers and hostng providers cannot reasonably be expected to know about every copyrighted work in the entire world, or to spend dozens or hundreds of hours checking every submission to try to determine its real origin. The primary responsibility is, and has always been, on the copyright holder. Once you notify the appropriate party about the violation, then the burden is on them to respond as required by law.
However, the publisher/host may, if they wish, investigate reports from third parties and take any action they like. In my experience, WoWI usually does this if there is a clear violation (eg. the original addon is all rights reserved, and the "fan update" doesn't say it has permission and doesn't even credit the original author).
Imagine you've spent 1000 hours writing, fixing, adding to, and supporting an addon; let's call it "CoolMod". Now imagine that you suddenly get married and get promoted at work, and just don't have time to even play WoW for 6 months, let alone develop your addon. Or maybe you lose your job and your house, and spent a year couch surfing or sleeping in the park before you get back on your feet. Now imagine that once things settle down, you come back to WoW, and find that other people have been using your addon's code or graphics to publish "CoolMod Plus" and "CoolMod Extended" and "CoolMod Fan Update" and "SuperMod" and "MyBetterMod". Maybe some of them are crediting you; others aren't. None of them ever asked you for permisson; your PM box is empty. How would you feel? How might people who view their work differently than you view yours feel? Are their feelings less valid than yours? Should we ignore their views because you (or someone else) think it's "better for the community"? There's no WoW addon that's so huge and complicated it can't be rewritten from scratch by someone else in a few weeks at most, if someone actually wants to do it. If nobody wants to do it, well, we're back to square one -- the addon obviously isn't as important to most people as it is to you, and your options are (again) quit WoW because you can't play without it, learn to play without it, find another addon that's "close enough", or learn to code and write your own.
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Retired author of too many addons. Message me if you're interested in taking over one of my addons. Don’t message me about addon bugs or programming questions. |
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WoWInterface » General Discussion » General WoW Chat » A Suggestion to Authors/WoWI on Future-Directed Licencing |
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