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12-16-13, 01:16 PM | #41 |
Affluenza...seems to be spreading
This is a direct quote from the Announcement made by Cairenn concerning the removal of nUI, which I believe raises an interesting point.
"...All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create “premium” versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on..." That said, ladies and gentlemen, I offer you the following link; http://www.wowinterface.com/premium.php And there you have it. Directly from this very website...a PREMIUM service that can be paid for in 3-month, 6-month, or annual increments. Someone please tell me how nUI author K. Scott Piel and WoWInterface are different from each other in ANY way, given what that link will show you? I quote again; All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Scott does that, as he has said many, MANY times. So does WoWInterface. You can use either one absolutely free for as long as you like. If you CHOOSE to offer money, whether in the form of a donation to a cause (nUI) or in payment for a service (WoWInterface), then it's exactly that...your choice! I have been a loyal supporter of both nUI and WoWInterface for many years now, and this whole situation stinks to high heaven. At long last, someone with the dedication, passion, and skill to code a functional, useful collection of addons for WoW comes along, puts together a fantastic community of players, and now he's being treated like a tyrant simply because he isn't willing to deal with rude, demanding, selfish asshats (sorry Scott; love the term...had to borrow it! ) who think they deserve something for nothing? I've spent the last few hours reading over the comments posted in various places about this issue and every single one of them is laced with hypocrisy...in SPADES! Scott has stated over and over and over again that people can still get nUI for free by several different methods, yet no one has bothered to mention that WoWInterface itself offers their Premium service at a fee? How is this not violating their own rules?!? I'll paraphrase here from the above quote, so there's no confusion; "...may not...charge money to download an add-on..." Hmm...let's see...yep, there it is! $29.99 annually, $17.95 every 6 months, or $9.99 a month for WoWInterface Premium! "...charge for services related to the add-on..." Oh wow...can you believe it?!? There it is again! $29.99 annually, $17.95 every 6 months, or $9.99 a month for WoWInterface Premium! "...or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on..." Woohoo! Three for three! $29.99 annually, $17.95 every 6 months, or $9.99 a month for WoWInterface Premium! Now then, let's list the free options for nUI, since a great many folks don't seem to know how to read; #1 - You can contact Scott directly via email and demonstrate how you've made a commitment to the nUI community by donation (which is 100% optional) or by direct assistance with coding, bug fixes, bug reporting, upgrades or suggestions, etc etc etc. #2 - You can get a direct referral from another nUI user who has demonstrated their commitment to the nUI community. When another respected nUI community member sponsors you, you may access nUI downloads and support for free. (*This is an exact quote from the email Scott sent out to all nUI members.) So...do you have to spend money to continue using nUI? No...you don't. Do you have to spend money to continue using WoWInterface? No...you don't. Can you choose to do either one? Absolutely. The moral of the story here is this; stop blasting Scott and accusing him of violating the rules when both of the major addon websites on the internet are making money hand over fist in the exact same way you're banning him for!!! As for those folks (see also, "asshats") who seem to think they deserve everything about nUI in exchange for insults, explitives, lazy spelling, and horrid grammar? I cordially invite you to bend over, grab both ankles, and repeatedly back into the nearest doorknob...squat on a cactus...take a flying leap at a rolling doughnut on a gravel driveway...whatever might float your boat. To K. Scott Piel himself, a single piece of advice; the "DELETE" button is your best friend! Slainte! ::climbs down off soapbox and wanders back into the woods for some peace and quiet:: |
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12-16-13, 01:22 PM | #42 | |
Sad to see
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12-16-13, 01:27 PM | #43 |
Kestrelon, nice trolling. I dont see any addon-related payd feature on WoWI Premium, swing and a miss
If there so much u guys who support him, why u wont be moderators on his forum, if dealing with demanding donkeys is main issue here |
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12-16-13, 01:35 PM | #44 | |
But... WowInterface's premium options have nothing to do with access to the addons. They are strictly about custom username titles, a larger inbox, bigger avatar, and no ads. All of those things are basically profile customizations. Going premium doesn't enhance your access to addons, or your ability to upload your own addon, so comparing WI's premium to asking for donations isn't the same thing. (I don't believe either of them is wrong, for the record.) |
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12-16-13, 01:39 PM | #45 |
misunderstandings abound
Ok,
First, Scott hasn't required you to pay for anything. He never has. To what i have seen and read nUI has been one of his many contributions to the game that thousands of people have used for free. He did, as many others have done, ask for donations to help him keep the addon updated. Nobody had an issue with him asking for donations before, but when he asked for donations to a worthwhile cause people bauked. This project in the rain forests is not making him any money. In fact from what I have seen it is costing him alot of time, effort and cash. The response he got was uncalled for. He didn't require anyone to donate to get his hard work, yet people bashed him for asking for support. Second,, it isn't his responsibility to continue supporting nUI publicly. He can make whatever addon he wants to and only share it with a few people. Private addons are not against Blizzards rules. If he were selling the addon outright or requiring a donation only then it would be. He has given everyone options to get the addon. One of those options is to donate. All he is asking for is for some simple respect from the people who want to use his hard work. If you have never tried to write an addon yourself, you will never understand how much work goes into it. I have a few addons that I wrote for myself only. Am I breaking Blizzards rules because I am not giving them away? Should I give the addon away to people who tell me how terrible I am for not adding some feature, or do not have an update ready the moment a new patch drops? I personally moved on to another addon, not because of Scott asking for donations, but because I kinda figured this would be how things would go down. Several people would get upset and complain because they can't get their way. Yes I am sure there are alot of people out there who were silently enjoying the addon(I am one of those silent ones). Yes it sucks that only a few people ruined it for the rest of us. I have emailed Scott a few times explaining how much I enjoyed his work, but explained I wouldn't ask for an invite until I felt I had properly returned some of the support he HAS shown us silent users for years. I myself prefer unhindered access to addons, but that can't happen in a fair manner. Yes you have to pay to play the game, and it doesn't seem fair to have to pay for or jump through hoops to get extras. But thats just what they are, EXTRAS. Its someone elses hard work that adds to the game. I understand Blizzards view of addons. Noone should really be able to stand on their shoulders so to speak by writing an extra to the game and make money off of it without their permission. I also understand the addon authors side of the conversation. They put in alot of time and have to accept stupidity and rudeness for their work without any compensation. There is no right answer for that can of worms anyway. Scott isn't doing anything wrong, its his work. He doesn't have to continue to support it, yet he still wants to. He isn't saying you have to pay me x amount of money to get the addon, he is giving you an option of donating to a cause. Thats not your only option. You could simply email him to show him you are not one of the mindless idiots who just want free stuff now without even going as far as to thank him for providing it. It is rather sad how impersonal we have all gotten to each other. We have the greatest way of communication that has been invented to this point in time. Virtually everyone on the planet can communicate to each other almost instantaneously, yet because it isn't face to face we know we don't have to deal with the consequences of rudeness. Lets just spew off about how someone that is no longer giving us free stuff is infringing on our rights. |
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12-16-13, 01:45 PM | #46 |
More haters?
I suppose I can see Blizz doing the whole money thing there, since they are a cash cow and think they can continue to do that. There should be no issue with having to pay for your nUI services since, afterall, you are helping tons of people for free regardless. Plus business is business, and businesses make money off businesses. This is jsut normal business. So for Blizz to butt into your business is jsut bad business. If someone doesn't want to pay for your product, then they can go find another product to use. nUI is not the only UI out there for WoW, there are quite a few, some more popular than nUI. So for Blizz to take issue over this is silly.
My support to you Scott. Respectfully, Tom |
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12-16-13, 02:05 PM | #47 |
I have been Using nUI ever sincs I started playing WoW years ago. It was very helpfull as a new user and became even a bigger help in raiding and pvp. I must say nUI has helped me alot through my years of WoW, and I am very sorry for what happened to you scott. I think you are right in what you are doing, but I can also understand the response from Blizzard. I think the 'solution' posted here earlier sounds really great; make an intern group for bug reporting en stuff; and make a locked forum version to the public. Maybe that wil make everyone happier
Whatever you do; I think you are a great person in making nUI all these years for us and standing up with these bullies! kind regards |
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12-16-13, 02:24 PM | #48 |
The Full Monty
Long story, short:
Scott's right, Blizzard and WOWI are wrong. The only reason Blizzard has been able to enforce the stance that it has with regards to addon authors requiring fees for their work is that they are the 100-pound gorilla in the room and the addon authors are lacking the financial backing to challenge it in court. Could you imagine what the world would say if Microsoft suddenly started telling developers of Outlook Add-ins that they couldn't charge for their products? I'm sure the DOJ would be all over that in a heartbeat. Scott, perhaps it's time to see if you can't find some high-powered legal services from your fan base which would be willing to take this to the courts pro-bono. Ultimately, the only thing that Blizzard should be allowed to do if they don't want others profiting (lets be honest: a whole new market would add to the economy both in money spent and jobs created - oh duh! - imagine the goodwill Blizzard would create for itself by creating and supporting such markets!) from addons created using built-in capabilities to the WoW product is to remove those capabilities. But to say that no one can benefit from the fruits of their labor is just so contrary to the principles on which the US was founded that it's simply ridiculous. Not to mention that you have a corporate conglomerate using the "don't be greedy" argument when they continue to rake in the millions. Don't think so? Take a look here. |
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12-16-13, 02:37 PM | #49 | |
Asking nothing but expecting something might be a exercise in fancy ...
Apparently this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You clearly cannot see to such an extent that you were unable to read that Scott is planning and already does continue to offer his nUI free to all via several options. Over the years I have used nUI and updated it because I saw for the work of art that it truly is. The improved functionality and cleanliness of the interface's design should have been adopted by Blizzard long ago at least as an option to users. This was a bad decision on their part and another bad decision is being made by them now by rewarding the rude and crude individuals that come to be crawling all over this game's environment by supporting their right to be offensive while still "entitled" to have unfettered access to insult anyone they choose. Blizzard says that they police the game for such users, but it is clear to me that if they did their subscriber base would be down far more than it is now. I no longer actively participate in WoW partly because of the huge number of idiots who behave in such an discourteous and ungrateful manner and partly because I feel the new expansions have taken the game in a direction that lost much of its charm such as story line and mythology. Despite this I maintain a subscription so I can see if things get better (IMO). I also maintain my version of nUI to show the author that I agree with his artistic vision. I made a commitment to support his development efforts and the new vision that he has for our world. While I am far from a "Green" person, I do see value in preserving the opportunity to see pristine wilderness for the future. I think that Blizzard is clearly reacting rather than completing their full investigation here and they are making an error in judgement. They require that the addon be free and Scott is continuing to offer it free of charge by certain methods. Does that mean that he has to offer it in a manner that allows individuals who insult him or treat him inappropriately? I would argue, no more than Blizzard has to allow people who violate its rules of conduct to continue to have access to their servers and game play. They after all are paid for the privilege of banning players, while Scott receives no direct payment. And yet it seems that many want to hold him to a higher standard and be the better man, while he receives no remuneration. I thought that such behavior was required of paid service people such as Blizzard and not the volunteers. Continuing to be disappointed by many in the WoW community... Avalar A Blood Elf Rogue from Terokkar |
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12-16-13, 03:23 PM | #50 |
Well done and who cares seriously it is still free through nuiaddons and curse. most of you are making this bigger than it needs to be.
Just need to be referred if I knew someone I would but I don't know anyone that does but I have never complained if something wasn't right. I don't hate him for what he is doing I think it takes balls to do it. he is only asking for donations just like all addon developers do even curse do. I use NUI+ and I love it best UI ever I have used heaps and it took me a long time to find one I liked, I will continue to download and patches from nuiaddons and curse and I hope I get onto his mailing list but if I don't oh well life goes on. Good on you Spiel I hope the new website works out well |
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12-16-13, 03:28 PM | #51 |
Scott is right, Blizz & WOWI are wrong!!
As an ex-WoW player and long time nUI user I've not only benefited from the support Scott freely gave/gives to users of his add-on, but for a while I was a subscriber. A couple of pounds for the convenience of getting all the latest updates direct to your inbox, that's well worth it. Buy the dev a coffee a month I think it was listed as Anyone calling this guy greedy deserves the title asshat, and should wear it with shame. Since you may stop paying the WoW subscription, there always that voice in the back of your mind saying one day you'll go back who knows, but if I do I'll be dammed if I'm going without a working copy of nUI!
TL/DR? Another post in support of Scott and nUI! |
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12-16-13, 03:31 PM | #52 | |
I have been with WoW since the beginning and started using nUI shortly after it was out. It has always been free and still is. I have never had much extra cash myself, but managed to donate to Scott's hard work from time to time. Being in the IT business, I understand Scott's thinking. I do not get to play WoW much now (once a week), but I enjoy it with nUI. To Scott: Thank you for your hard work, you have made my game better for sure! |
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12-16-13, 03:40 PM | #53 | ||
Btw whats up with http://www.zygorguides.com/members/signup.php ?
They say its a "guide" but its nothing more than a custom made addon yet they charge 40$ and if you obtain it from some other means, its considered illegal according to them. According to their FAQ:
Yet
http://manaview.com/tycoon/ http://www.manaview.com/booster/ Last edited by bruj0 : 12-16-13 at 03:46 PM. |
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12-16-13, 03:42 PM | #54 | ||||
Actually no. At least a slave received room and board. Pretty sure Scott doesn't even get that.
It's interesting that you use Tukui and ElvUI as your example. Taken directly from the Tukui homepage:
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12-16-13, 03:45 PM | #55 |
Ok, it's been a while but if memory serves me correctly back in the stone ages when I fist downloaded Nui you could get a limited version on public servers and a better version if we signed up for the newsletter. Is it not still that way? It's been a while.
Also, if I may suggest, take your email out of the picture. Send from a non response email and just let anyone who needs to reach you do it from forums. No one should have to open a crapload of negative emails. |
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12-16-13, 03:51 PM | #56 | |
Your right, I forgot about the guide add ons costing. I bought two of those a few years back and it's nothing more than a PDF not worth reading and an addon. There was also a guild bank addon that kept up with member contributions and withdrawals that charged. |
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12-16-13, 04:01 PM | #57 |
I feel for ya Scott and this reminds me all too well of another game that had a similar problem. The authors worked tirelessly and the result was dozens of amazing artistic mods that greatly enhanced the game. The problem was that as years progressed there was a slow but steady influx of trolls and *******s who seemed to mock everyone both user and artist alike. As they did so it caused ruckus after ruckus as more trolls seemed to make everything miserable for everyone. Eventually as was expected, the game itself began to lose its luster as more people decided to move on rather than deal with the drama. I myself was one of those people and to this day when ever I try to visit the old site that hosted that game I find yet more reasons for why it was a good thing to leave. If blizzard is gonna block nui then maybe its time to tell blizzard to good eat a stiffy for a fifty and move on to something else. I myself have already told blizzard to go sit on the big pole but if I may make one last suggestion, there is always something better on the horizon. Just keep an eye out for it and one day you will find that next great game to make an incredible mod.
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12-16-13, 04:29 PM | #58 |
Support for a great guy
I have been playing WOW since vanilla and have been using nUI for years. I have never been asked to pay a fee to access or download nUI or any of the many nUI added features. But that is not the point of what started this mess. After years of supporting WOW players by providing an interface that made the game a more natural and intuitive process Scoot approached what he viewed as a loyal community of followers for help in another project. He did not require anyone to send money, he simply asked what should have been a grateful nUI community to help him with a project in the real world. Many of us found this to be a reasonable means to request this assistance, after all we had freely given our email addresses to him in order to be kept up to date about changes to the nUI interface. Frankly, we give out our email addresses daily to numerous websites and never fault them for filling our inboxes with garbage. Why would Scott think that he would be slammed for making a request for help in one of his pet projects. But, as shakespeare said it, "...there's the rub...", the screams of foul didn't come from people who had at one time or another donated freely to the nUI project to help it continue when Scott was struggling. They came largely from those who had been using nUI for free without regard to the overwhelming amount of effort Scott made month after month, year after year to keep us up to date and functional with the interface despite numerous changes to how things worked in the game. So of course Scott was upset, anyone would be. He gave of his free time to make my/our game play better and yet he isn't allowed to ask for help outside the game...His response was simple and valid and I support it. Scott did not cut anyone out of using nUI, he did not change the policy of nUI access...hell just 2 days ago the lastest ugrades were available on Curse, Wowinterface and nUIaddons.com, still free to download...the Wowinterface still showed the regular popup window for donations if you wanted to make them, no demand for payment...
Scott I support you...the project was for a good cause and I appreciate you asking...I use your interface because I like it. I donated because I supported the project, not because I was required to...I use nUI because I like it, and I donate to support it because I want to...trolls be damned! |
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12-16-13, 04:49 PM | #59 |
I support the nUI project as a whole, but people need to be realistic.
Blizzard has the final say in this, like it or not. They decide what can be done, and complaining on forums does nothing. Their addon policy isn't a legal matter, it's a company decision. It's not "We will pursue you in court for making a paid addon", it's 'We'll code out any addons that don't comply with our policy". It's their code; if they want to prevent it from interacting with a specific bit of outside code, they can. Then we have the matter of people yelling 'entitlement'. Don't make addons if you expect to be paid. Blizzard specifically states they require addons be free of charge. If you make addons expecting monetary compensation, you'll end up disappointed. When you point out that Scott has spent days coding without getting anything in return, realize that he signed up for exactly that. Nobody tricked him, nobody lied to him. Better yet, in contrast with this slave metaphor I see thrown around, he does this purely out of his own will. He's not 'required' to do anything. Stuff like Zygor's only gets by because it's 'given free' with the actual purchase of the guide (and even then, 9/10 of its' users didn't buy it). All this being said, Blizzard is not without fault. Perhaps they did not investigate enough, or they didn't elaborate on the policy enough. Regardless, I think it's something that should be handled between Blizzard and Scott. Without the hordes of opponents and proponents ranting on forums. Also, because I feel it needs to be repeated. Stop calling for legal action. The addon policy isn't a court matter, it's Blizzard telling us how they are going to code their game. Last edited by TheWafflian : 12-16-13 at 04:52 PM. |
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12-16-13, 04:50 PM | #60 |
wow. people
Sorry for all the problems you are having Scott. Myself, I have quit playing WOW, at least for a bit.
I loved using your addon. WOW just got out of hand. But gotta say to those with a problem. Not happy, just use Blizzards UI. Last edited by spanky51 : 12-16-13 at 05:28 PM. |
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WoWInterface » Featured Projects » nUI, MozzFullWorldMap and PartySpotter » General » nUI: Community Chat » Letter to Blizzard - December 5th |
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