Panel Mod Disgust

[Zyonin]

Syxx summed up my thoughts nicely. I am currently run alot of mods, some of which I have hacked myself to make them fit my particular needs. And most of them are Ace2 mods mods. One of those mods is FuBar. And guess what? No bugs. The last bug I found was a result of my hacking (oops, forgot to close a line), which I fixed.

[Republic]

@ Seerah

From my various posts in this thread...

<not really angry or critical - just mildly sick of having to search so hard for updates to Titan and/or Fubar> --- Would it be possible to put Cladhaire (best author going) in charge of everything I use? --- Because this is the best wow mod site on the net --- I'm grateful for a select few addons I happen to use. They improve my user experience. --- I appreciate real authors. --- I think project integrity is important, and in a small way, I've tried to help in this capacity. --- Once again, I'd like to point out this is the best mod site on the net. I know that isn't without extreme effort by a few key individuals. I have no other real comment to make here other than this place is excellent. I always come here first, Curse second, and gaaah - IncGamers third (armed with my AV scanner) when I look for updated mods. --- While these guys do great work, and I'm sure do the best they can, there are perhaps ways of increasing efficiency and making it easier on the community to continue enjoying these pieces of work. --- The bottom line is these are "major" mods. I very much appreciate the work put into developing them, and applaud the respective author's brilliance. --- I love mods. I love mod sites. I consider each of you my close, personal friend Don't hate the player, hate the game? Okay, just kidding. Don't take my words too seriously. I'm not really griping without trying to offer something constructive. In any event, please don't be offended that I'm rather awkward in making my points.

I suppose we have each proven that you can pull anything out of context and create an illusion that isn't really the intended picture. I find it odd that rather than focusing on the positive, you've chosen to list the negative. The accurate picture (as evidenced by the thread title) is somewhere in between.

Regarding teachers, I have a favorite quote...

A teacher is one who makes himself progressively unnecessary. ~Thomas Carruthers

Congratulations!

[Zidomo]

Originally Posted by erica647 Hey Zidomo... just wanted to say that I'm by no means a programmer but what I did find is that when trying to run Fubar's LocationFu plugin when using the default minimap, the minimap is forced up past the top of the screen. I removed the older Libjostle from the libs folder in LocationFu's directory and the other references to it and the minimap again moves to the correct position. I update my mods daily using the WAU and I feel confident that what I'm saying is indeed true. I'd feel much better if you'd try this yourself with the default minimap and than tell me that my statements aren't true. If you do this and have no problems, I'll go back to troubleshooting and assume that it's just something on my end. Thanks! Edit: I tried this again and it seems to work fine... guess I got a little defensive if I came across in a bad way. Thanks again Zidomo and to the OP... let me know if you still have issues with fubar and I'll see if I can help.

Np np. As they say in programming, just because the majority don't experience a bug does not mean it doesn't exist .

Yes, I run the default minimap here unaltered by mods and always have. No issues with either the latest LocationFu or Fubar (mod revisions as listed). Same with most other people. Glad its working OK for you now.

Usually, its mods that alter the minimap in some way (making it square, oval, glowing, wearing a nice pantsuit, etc.) that have a higher likelihood of causing issues with other mods. But haven't heard of many/any issues with minimap-altering mods like Squeenix , RicoMinimap , simpleMinimap and so on with Fubar.

Anyway, good luck .

P.S. Tip for the original poster, who I really shouldn't be giving tips to at this point: very occasionally when you first log on during a session, the minimap as well as the player frame are at the top under FuBar. Wait 10 seconds, they automatically move down to the proper locations. Always.

There are also options for FuBar the parent poster didn't bother to look at. In FuBar's options (available via rightclick on an empty section of it) for "Toggle auto-adjustment of Blizzard's frames". That's the big one to play around with. Other options as well.

Also can have the bars at the bottom of the frame instead of the top.

[Ezekiel127]

Can't believe this thread is still going. It seems to now be going around in circles with people becomming increasingly frustrated/aggressive. Can we just get it locked and move on as nothing seems to be happening?

[Seerah]

Originally Posted by Republic @ Seerah Regarding teachers, I have a favorite quote... A teacher is one who makes himself progressively unnecessary. ~Thomas Carruthers Congratulations!

I don't know why you posted that quote.... Unless you think it means something different than it does... But it goes towards the point I was trying to make - thank you.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Seerah I don't know why you posted that quote.... Unless you think it means something different than it does... But it goes towards the point I was trying to make - thank you.

I thought it seemed like an extremely "versatile" statement.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Zidomo Np np. As they say in programming, just because the majority don't experience a bug does not mean it doesn't exist . Yes, I run the default minimap here unaltered by mods and always have. No issues with either the latest LocationFu or Fubar (mod revisions as listed). Same with most other people. Glad its working OK for you now. Usually, its mods that alter the minimap in some way (making it square, oval, glowing, wearing a nice pantsuit, etc.) that have a higher likelihood of causing issues with other mods. But haven't heard of many/any issues with minimap-altering mods like Squeenix , RicoMinimap , simpleMinimap and so on with Fubar. Anyway, good luck . P.S. Tip for the original poster, who I really shouldn't be giving tips to at this point: very occasionally when you first log on during a session, the minimap as well as the player frame are at the top under FuBar. Wait 10 seconds, they automatically move down to the proper locations. Always. There are also options for FuBar the parent poster didn't bother to look at. In FuBar's options (available via rightclick on an empty section of it) for "Toggle auto-adjustment of Blizzard's frames". That's the big one to play around with. Other options as well. Also can have the bars at the bottom of the frame instead of the top.

Yes, I have seen the movement after this "10 second delay" and that isn't what's happening. The Blizzard defeault minimap stays tucked underneath the top bar. /shrug

[Syxx]

Instead of waiting for an immaculate fix for the problem have you tried my suggestion? You seemed to have missed that post (or just didn't reply to it or ignored it).

Other than that, everything seems to have been said or suggested. This thread seems to be just sort of going in circles as a previous poster noted.

[Gemini_II]

Gemini_II begins casting Random Text Color on WowInterface...

Your target is dead

[Zidomo]

Originally Posted by Republic Yes, I have seen the movement after this "10 second delay" and that isn't what's happening. The Blizzard defeault minimap stays tucked underneath the top bar. /shrug

You missed what I said about FuBar's options apparently.

/faceplant

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Zidomo You missed what I said about FuBar's options apparently. /faceplant

It wasn't ignored. It wasn't helpful. The only option that has a "lasting" effect is the auto-hide, which hardly addresses anything relevant to the overlapping issue considering the fact I don't want the bar automatically hidden. I want it to work properly. You may as well have told me you can change backgrounds, or that I can find Paypal donation information on the rock menu. Either would have been just as helpful.

In any event, I've temporarily solved the problem by uninstalling everything and reinstalling with WAU using auto dependency downloads rather than default with externals. I still don't understand why it doesn't work properly being installed with externals, however that does appear to point to the conflicts Erica has already documented on this site as well as Fubar's Jira. That also tells me Erica's discovery is quite valid and might lead to solving the real issue (old jostle references), which, as I recall you said no longer existed.

Thanks for trying

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Syxx Instead of waiting for an immaculate fix for the problem have you tried my suggestion? You seemed to have missed that post (or just didn't reply to it or ignored it). Other than that, everything seems to have been said or suggested. This thread seems to be just sort of going in circles as a previous poster noted.

No, but thanks for the suggestions. Through experimentation, I have it working as per the steps in my previous post.

Thanks again

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Republic I suppose we have each proven that you can pull anything out of context and create an illusion that isn't really the intended picture. I find it odd that rather than focusing on the positive, you've chosen to list the negative.

It's not the least bit odd. Each one of Seerah's quotes sounded equally offensive in your original post as it is in a list, hence the slew of people railing against you. If you don't want people to focus on negative, retarded things, then don't say negative retarded things.

Originally Posted by Republic The accurate picture (as evidenced by the thread title) is somewhere in between.

Throwing a few, meaningful comments into a slew of offensive and rude statements does not give you something "in between". It gives you a rude person with such a bloated sense of self-entitlement that they expect people to ignore their asshattery and focus only on the parts that don't make them look an ill-informed misanthrope. Meaning is not averaged.

Originally Posted by Republic I thought it seemed like an extremely "versatile" statement.

Which is exactly why you don't understand the quote. It's about a student becoming self-sufficient and learning on their own, a position that is far more consistent with what Seerah has said than anything you have.

-----------

Look, you said you wanted to be constructive. If that desire was genuine, here's a suggestion. Don't post. Knowing that people like you are out there is a big reason why many authors stop caring about giving their time to the benefit of others. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...nt-out-Crusade

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz Which is exactly why you don't understand the quote. It's about a student becoming self-sufficient and learning on their own, a position that is far more consistent with what Seerah has said than anything you have.

I understand it perfectly. Fact is, aside from the actual meaning of the quotation (as you have listed for us - I thought it was obvious, but nonetheless), I rather enjoyed that it could be seen to have the opposite meaning as well and thought it was humorous to post it in that slant, as her posts were largely useless other than taking shots at me. Thus, being meaningless, etc. How about this? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."? Get my drift? It was only a joke.

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz Look, you said you wanted to be constructive. If that desire was genuine, here's a suggestion. Don't post. Knowing that people like you are out there is a big reason why many authors stop caring about giving their time to the benefit of others. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...nt-out-Crusade

You haven't seen the private messages I've received from people thanking me for taking on some of the truly "self-righteous" poster(s) of these forums. Not everyone here feels the way you (and a few others here) do. I can't help it if some of you disagree with my opinions and choose to attack personal style. If that bothered me, I'd never offer opinions to begin with. I really don't care.

Considering the fact my technical issue is thusly temporarily resolved, and the fact that some of you are choosing to focus on personal style rather than actual messages, I think the discussion is being derailed and I'll make one last statement here and leave the rest to you guys to continue "feeling bad" over.

Titan Panel and Fubar should be more responsive to community needs, and it should be less cryptic to find updated versions. The download version of Fubar at this location should be more RECENT than March 2007. Period.

Good day

[Zidomo]

Originally Posted by Republic It wasn't ignored. It wasn't helpful. The only option that has a "lasting" effect is the auto-hide, which hardly addresses anything relevant to the overlapping issue considering the fact I don't want the bar automatically hidden. I want it to work properly. You may as well have told me you can change backgrounds, or that I can find Paypal donation information on the rock menu. Either would have been just as helpful. In any event, I've temporarily solved the problem by uninstalling everything and reinstalling with WAU using auto dependency downloads rather than default with externals. I still don't understand why it doesn't work properly being installed with externals, however that does appear to point to the conflicts Erica has already documented on this site as well as Fubar's Jira. That also tells me Erica's discovery is quite valid and might lead to solving the real issue (old jostle references), which, as I recall you said no longer existed. Thanks for trying

In FuBar's options (available via rightclick on an empty section of it) for "Toggle auto-adjustment of Blizzard's frames". That's the big one to play around with.
is what I said. &^* damn you are an ungrateful *&%). Offered a likely software option to resolve the problem and when it doesn't work you fire insults. And you wonder why people respond to you the way they do. If anyone here is "self-righteous", its you, bud.

And no, the updated Jostle libraries don't "conflict" with each other. I spend a lot of time on the Wowace forums. If there is a problem on your end that make things not work, you can't expand that into an overall problem with the libraries, as there is little evidence of it. Standalone (libraries in thier own folders) or embedded (the libraries in subfolders of the FuBar & other mod folders), there just hasn't been widespread evidence of a Jostle problem.

1) WAU sometimes doesn't install "externals" correctly (whatever you are calling "externals") and/or doesn't download things correctly if you are using an old version. Or doesn't install older mods/libraries correctly that are lacking an embeds.xml file. Solution: download and install the mod ZIPs directly from files.wowace.com. Or what I do, use a SVN client to download.
2) Or there may be a problem BKAC (between keyboard and chair). Either of those has no relation to Jostle library conflicts.

Have a good one.

[Syxx]

Originally Posted by Republic ... I think the discussion is being derailed and I'll make one last statement here and leave the rest to you guys to continue "feeling bad" over.

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Republic You haven't seen the private messages I've received from people thanking me for taking on some of the truly "self-righteous" poster(s) of these forums. Not everyone here feels the way you (and a few others here) do.

If even true, that would not be the least bit surprising. MMOs are full of those kinds of people who contribute nothing and criticize all. It's not surprising that they would feel solidarity with someone like you. It's also not surprising that they lack the courage to come out and here and stand behind their positions.

Originally Posted by Republic I can't help it if some of you disagree with my opinions and choose to attack personal style. If that bothered me, I'd never offer opinions to begin with. I really don't care.

Saying offensive things is not personal style, i.e. something that is subjective and not worthy of criticism. Saying offensive things is being offensive, and that's what you've done, and people called you out on it.

I do fully believe you when you say that you don't care. That much about your character is clear.

Originally Posted by Republic Titan Panel and Fubar should be more responsive to community needs, and it should be less cryptic to find updated versions. The download version of Fubar at this location should be more RECENT than March 2007. Period.

You contribute nothing to the community. You are not even moderately well-informed. You are rude. None of the people who actually create things will be the least bit influenced by what you think "should be". Period.

The bottom line is that this is a hobby mod community, and you're a person who gets hand-outs. If you want better or more frequent hand-outs, you should be more respectful to the people giving them to you.

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz None of the people who actually create things will be the least bit influenced by what you think "should be". Period.

I suppose I could round up a collection of other people's creations, slap my name on the zip file and call myself a creator? Would that constitute receiving hand-outs (other people's work) or providing hand-outs (my zip file of other people's work)? Please. Enough with the dramatics. If a creator is looking for personal acceptance through creating a mod, they probably need to address a deeper problem. As it remains, it's a safe given fact that you cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time. If someone's too sensitive to realize this to begin with, they don't need to put themselves out here in that capacity. If a client isn't happy with my work, I ask questions and try to address/fix the problems if it's within my limitations to do so. I don't become dramatic and throw my hands up in the air and call it "burnout". Then again, I'm not out for personal acceptance, I'm out to pay the bills. A client doesn't need to personally worship me, but they know I will bust my ass to get it done for them, especially if my name's on the invoice. In this respect I earn respect through performance, not personality. If more mod authors could respond in this manner, there are a handful of great projects that might still be alive. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I'm willing to bet that 95% of you reading this thread agree with the fact you'd like to see Fubar and/or Titan more responsive to the community. That's the bottom line. In this respect, we are all on the same page. Forget all the personal/style/offensive/defensive crap and focus on the issue(s) or nothing will ever change for the better. I couldn't care less that I'll be continually insulted, as I'm sure a few of you will need to get a last shot in here, and that's okay. I just want simple things fixed. The community can do better.

Here's to hoping Titan updates before the next game version! Thanks.

EDIT - Actually, you made a good point. I wasn't contributing anything here prior to this post. However, I've upgraded to a paid membership so in a small sense I am contributing to the work put into these sites

Putting my money where my mouth is!

[Syxx]

Originally Posted by Republic blah blah.... Fubar and/or Titan more responsive to the community. That's the bottom line. blah blah blah

I'm not sure exactly what you want here from authors (I know you've said it a million times over and over but you seem to like saying it more than anything.).

"More responsive to the community" is this term you keep throwing out like confetti. It means virtually nothing. Fubar is packed with features and many are "community" requests. So how is that not being responsive?
As for Titan... Hell I don't even know who is updating that mod anymore. Hasn't it changed hands more times than a Thai hooker by now? So I wouldn't even begin to know where to submit bug reports for that mod.

/cast Power Word:Kill on thread.

*Zzztt*

[Mazzlefizz]

Originally Posted by Republic I suppose I could round up a collection of other people's creations, slap my name on the zip file and call myself a creator? Would that constitute receiving hand-outs (other people's work) or providing hand-outs (my zip file of other people's work)?

No, a creator would be someone who codes add-ons.

Originally Posted by Republic If a client isn't happy with my work, I ask questions and try to address/fix the problems if it's within my limitations to do so. I don't become dramatic and throw my hands up in the air and call it "burnout". Then again, I'm not out for personal acceptance, I'm out to pay the bills. A client doesn't need to personally worship me, but they know I will bust my ass to get it done for them, especially if my name's on the invoice. In this respect I earn respect through performance, not personality. If more mod authors could respond in this manner, there are a handful of great projects that might still be alive. I'm sure you know what I mean.

When add-on authors start sending you invoices like you send your clients invoices, then you can make this argument. Until then, it holds absolutely no water.

Originally Posted by Republic I'm willing to bet that 95% of you reading this thread agree with the fact you'd like to see Fubar and/or Titan more responsive to the community. That's the bottom line. In this respect, we are all on the same page.

Of course they'd agree. It's a platitude. Who wouldn't want more responsiveness, more features or whatever positive item you can list? People wanting those things is utterly obvious and doesn't alter the fact that being offensive to the people giving those things freely does nothing but decrease the likelihood of it happening.