10-11-08, 12:41 PM | #61 | |||
And I do agree that the analogies posted were unfortunate and at the end of the day needless. There is indeed no reason to "dumb down" some very simple facts. And yes the thread has run its course and should probably be locked. Everything has been stated, both sides have been heard, we can actually agree to the fact that we are of a different mindset on this particular subject and live happily ever after. That, or derail this more into a flame... |
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10-11-08, 12:43 PM | #62 | |
Was meant as a friendly tease ... It could have been "I blame the gnomes" just as well. I do agree that this thread has run its course though, it can only degenerate. Next part is what actions the involved parties will take that's of some interest. Last edited by Dridzt : 10-11-08 at 12:48 PM. |
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10-11-08, 12:50 PM | #63 | ||
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Two plus two equals five. |
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10-11-08, 03:33 PM | #64 | ||
More snippet bits from my posts in Recompense's thread over in Blizzard UI and Macros forum for those of you who aren't reading it because of the need for flame retardant...
In regards to the deep linking issue, I found this old (very old in internet terms ;) article which might be of interest - http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/deeplinking.html ("Deep Linking" in the World Wide Web). A summary of the article (in my own words) is that the w3c is not against the concept of deep linking, and argues that access to the content referred to via deep linking is up to the access control mechanisms of the site providing the content to which the deep link references. I also very much liked the two real world analogies they used (from section 5, "Deep Linking by Analogy"):
As an author, I have given WoWInterface the right to provide my addons to the public through their webserver (and the reasons I chose WoWInterface will be many and varied - see any of the arguments put forth by other authors). If another site chooses to deep-link to either the WoWInterface page on which my addon is described, or even direct to the zip file containing my addon, I can either accept this as a normal usage in the web, or request WoWInterface to limit access in some fashion (e.g., downloads only available via access first to the author or addon pages). I'm not sure that I can require another site to remove its link to my work, unless that link in and of itself violates my copyright (e.g., does not correctly attribute the works to me). Hearkening back to my university years, my recollection of copyright "fair use" required us (as students or researchers) to -always- attribute referenced works - e.g., author name(s) and the source of your referenced content (e.g. page, book title, proceedings, publication information, etc.). I guess for the the latter, the equivalent today (and in the context of addons) would be a web link - and importantly this web link should reference the containing object (web-page), not just the object itself (because that could be considered taking a work out of context, or mis-attributing the source of the information). In regards to this second point, if WoWMatrix parses pages from a site (such as WoWInterface) to extract from it the links to the actual addons, or even if it just gets this information from an RSS feed directly published by the site, fair use of copyright (both the author's and the hosting site) would arguably require WoWMatrix to properly attribute the source of the links - i.e., you could fairly argue that WoWMatrix -must- attribute the source of the content (i.e., the parent web-page or host site) for the links it provides. This is especially important if there is a commercial involvement (i.e., if they are getting paid, either by customers, advertising, or other means). Of course I'm not a copyright lawyer/expert/etc., and I'm sure there are holes in all of this, but I can say that I'm (personally) quite happy for services such as the WoWMatrix client provides to exist in principle, -provided that- the the client or tool properly attributes the link to my addons both to me (as the author) and to the source (addon's web page) from which the link was obtained. (In the case where I directly sent the link to the client or tool service provider, this source reference would not be required). So far it sounds like we've got half-way there in that WoWMatrix now lists the author's name :) Recompense wrote:
What they aren't doing (yet) is linking to the information that I also want associated with my addons (i.e., the web page itself), but I can't find a valid argument that says "since WoWInterface is allowed to serve my addons (as a zip file) directly via a URL without any access control, no one else is allowed to use that URL without my permission", since I don't have any rights over the URL itself. And yes, this is where we stray into the (eek) quagmire of author's rights etc., which I'm definitely not able to give a qualified comment on, even as an interested author! There is another analogy I can think of which will probably just muddy the waters even further - as far as i know, an author/owner of a work does not have the right to suppress/limit/etc., valid comment on their works (e.g., a newspaper can do an article on your works without so much as a "by your leave", and can even do so against your explicit wishes). And in that context, is a web link to the location of said author's work simply a form of "comment", or ? Note I'm not saying there aren't potentially legal issues here (e.g., author and site provider copyrights, whether the download manager tools violate the site EULAs as others have noted, etc.), just that -I'm- not so sure now that "deep linking" alone is a violation of the author's copyright, provided the source has been properly attributed (which it isn't quite yet, IMO). All food for thought... -- Cirk
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Cirk's Addons |
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10-11-08, 09:21 PM | #65 | ||||||||
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10-11-08, 10:58 PM | #66 |
I understand the hate for this program and the reasoning behind not using it, but until you can find us something equal or better as a replacement, It's not worth checking every site for all 30-60 Addons you may have to update.
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10-12-08, 02:12 AM | #67 |
10-12-08, 07:10 AM | #68 |
hmmm alternative pls
Hiii guys,
I red many of the posts here and I can understand both sides. First the authors side, we as end users think that you the authors were asked to publish or update your addonīs via WOW Matrix. When this isnīt the case it is not okay. But I tried many of the updater Tools out there and this one is the easiest to use, most actual one. I already tried the WOW Interface updater but this one doesnīt work at all. The one from BLASC isnīt really up to date ant the one from curse wonīt work , too. So maybe it is possible to contact the authors of WOW Matrix to work together ?!?!? It is the best updater I know. But when you tell me another one which has the same fuctionallity I am open minded to change the Tool. So please donīt missunderstand my words. I know what all authors of AddOn out there mean, but if a user wants to keep the AddOns up to date it is necessary to use an updater tool. |
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10-12-08, 05:46 PM | #69 |
Terribly sorry to keep this going...
First, I've asked people who use my websites to not recommend Wowmatrix for the reasons already mentioned. Some still do, but I voice my opinion of wowmatrix loud and clear. I do have a question about accessing the download links of addons here on WoWI though. Is it possible to require a log in in order to view addons or download addons (or both); would this be able to stop wowmatrix from accessing the files (and essentially stealing your bandwidth)? As a user I do not have any problem with manually updating all of the addons I use (I use Mazzleui btw, which to my knowledge is the highest maintenance compilation out there). I think the lack of respect and support for authors (and hosts) is retarded (to put it in terms 'they' can understand), I'd hope that all authors could see fit to request their work to be removed from wowmatrix. Thanks for writing these addons and hosting them, it isn't as unappreciated as you'd think. |
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10-12-08, 06:52 PM | #70 | |
Or, you could use one of the half-dozen or so other updater programs that do not profit from leeching bandwidth and distributing addons without explicit author opt-in or explicit user instruction. For example, with JWoWUpdater, you'd spend maybe 15 minutes, one time, inputting the addons you wanted to keep updated, and from then on you'd just click the "Update" button to check for and download any available updates to those addons. |
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10-12-08, 06:53 PM | #71 |
JWoWUpdater, Phanx has said that I don't even remember how many times now.
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Funtoo - Plan 9 - Windows 7 |
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10-13-08, 07:35 PM | #72 | ||||
Some quotes for you guys from the first page of this thread. Either you've forgotten that they've been said, or you haven't read the first page.
Yes, we do have our own site updater. No, it's not 100% in the way of what people would like it to be. That's why it is going to be rewritten. I'm sad to come back from a weekend at BlizzCon to see a thread full of flames, people not caring about author or hosting site rights, and users too blind to see what the ease of using wowmatrix actually costs the authors and hosting sites it leeches from. I also agree that this thread has run its course. We are not finished trying to protect our downloads (yes, we have been trying to prevent wowmatrix from accessing them, as noted in a quote above), but we would also like to do it in a way so as not to inconvenience our users. |
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WoWInterface » General Discussion » Chit-Chat » Why WowMatrix is bad. |
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