/delurk
I've seen too much. Can... not... resist...
Originally Posted by Tekkub
Hey now, I'm a pirate, and yet I retain the rights to throw a *****fit at people that try to make money off my work without my permission. The two are not exclusive.
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Tekkub, I'm going to take this moment to be a d*ck, and I hope you don't take it personal. The minute anyone becomes a hypocrite in the process of making an argument is the minute their argument becomes entirely specious. I will agree with you that the two may not be mutually exclusive, but that doesn't stop someone from being a blazingly obvious hypocrite for holding both to be true in his mind. We who are logical beings call that a double-standard, and if anything I've said applies directly to you, I apologize in advance. (I warned you that I was going to be a d*ck.) I still like you, though.
Originally Posted by Jalandar
Those are not legitimate questions, they are thinly veiled attacks, not an attempt to engage in a true dialog. You even answered many of your own questions, and surely know the answer to most of the others.
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They are extremely legitimate questions, and they deserve answers. Even if those were nothing more than vehement expressions of rage, I think they've been long in coming. These forums are chalk full of reasons why they're valid, whether you choose to see them that way or not, and if you won't see them that way, I'm not going to take the time to explain that to you, and neither should anyone else. Translate my signature to figure out why.
Originally Posted by Jalandar
This is not "WoWMatrix stealing bandwidth" because that is very simply not what they did.
They provide an alternative front end for users to access content on your site, and in much the same fashion that many other "custom content" front ends do. I could write a simple script for Firefox that strips out all the content on every addon page I visit on WoWInterface except the Download link and version numbers, if I wanted. I could then distribute that script to others. Nothing I am doing with that is illegal, and is barely different from what WoWMatrix was doing.
Vilify them all you want, but the "bandwidth stealing" and "WM was breaking the law" argument remains the most incorrect points used to describe what was happening.
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Originally Posted by Jalandar
TOS are not laws, and do not carry a force of law. If I violate a TOS, your sole relief is to sanction me within your technical means regarding my use of your service.
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If I hire someone to kill my ex-wife, I won't go to jail for murder in the first degree, but I will go to jail for conspiracy to commit murder in the first degree. I also will be an accessory, and if the courts can find anything else illegal about what I've done, I assure you, they'll throw the book at me. You seem to lack a very basic understanding about how the legal system, legal documents, and legal jargon function, so I'm going to spell it out for you.
While WowMatrix is indeed not liable for the theft of the bandwidth (and the end users are to answer other comments made), they can be held liable for what boils down to exploiting a lack of security and then making money off it. (Understand here: hiring someone to steal the Mona Lisa and then reselling it.) This is nothing more than glorified hacking. You've managed to find what might be a grey area (somethin akin to using .torrent files to pirate various forms of media), but even if you did, I have a feeling that if WoWI and Curse took this to court, anyone with at least half a brain in their head who gets paid to do this for a living would see this exactly how I have described it to you, and WowMatrix would lose.
In your example, the chief difference is that you are still going directly do the website, and other people would have to do the same. That crucial difference changes everything, and your analogy ceases to hold any kind of weight in your argument.
Furthermore, Terms of Service do indeed carry the force of law in that they become the cornerstone of any case in which they were violated so badly that the generator of those terms feels that they warrant court action. If you need better understanding, ask a lawyer. And, I'm boggled that you're blasting WoWI and Curse in the face for blocking WM out, when you just got done in that comment saying that they're ToS gives them the right to do exactly that. Who's side are you on? Make up your mind.
None of this has anything to do with vilification of any kind beyond what WM has done to themselves. It could be said that Jews vilified Hitler (yeah, I went there), but I think we can all agree that it was well-deserved. Ultimately, Jal, I understand from your posts that you're here to make an emotional argument, not a rational one, and I can respect that as long as we both understand that no matter how rational I am about the irrational things you say, you ultimately won't come around.
Let's see... covered hypocrisy, legality, singing pigs...
Yeah, I'm done here.