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10-15-08, 10:16 AM   #1
erogroth
A Cyclonian
Join Date: Dec 2006
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MazzleUI 3.0/WOTLK Devs Only

The purpose of this thread is to organize an effort among Developers to update and maintain MazzleUI as we move into Patch 3.0 and WOTLK. I am asking that only those that are coders and Developers post in this thread. We will start a new thread for beta testing and feedback once we have something to work with.

Some key points to start off will be:

1) Who do we have on our new Dev team?
2) What do we know has changed in 3.0 that has broken the Mazzle Core?
3) What 3rd party addons are we dependent on that are not Mazzle Core?
4) Are these 3rd party addons discontinued? If so can we find replacements or do we want to update them ourselves?
5) Once we figure out the above we can divide up the work.

Thanks to all the people who are volunteering to help on this project.
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10-15-08, 12:04 PM   #2
Mixsae
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Count me in...with a caveat or two.

First, I'm a coder but I've never coded in LUA. Actually, looking through Mazzle's code this morning is the first time I've ever seen LUA in action; I did some reading on it yesterday -- so I'm a noob here. However, I do have experience/schooling in C, C++, Fortran, Pascal, Cobol, VB, C#, VBScript, JavaScript and Assembler...so I don't think it will take me too long to pick it up. However, if you can't use me I completely understand.

Second, we really ought to check with Mazzle if it's okay to work on this project. The last thing I'd want to do is step on the toes of the person who created this, frankly, awesome UI compilation. Besides which, if we get Mazzle's blessing, we might be able to open up a dialogue to better understand the code (there's not a great deal of comments in there!).
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10-15-08, 12:53 PM   #3
erogroth
A Cyclonian
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 43
First off, thank you for offering your help. With your background I don't think you will have much trouble adapting to LUA.

Second, I have already posted else where about this thread and reached out to Mazzle on this. Since he does not actually play the game and develop the mod anymore I don't see why he would have a problem with this but Mazzle, if you are reading this and you do have any issues with the community updating your mod please just let us know so we can work it out. I know others have updated the Mod in the past so I don't see why there would be a problem now. And of course any input you have would be greatly appreciated.

I know that there are a few other people who posted about helping in other threads. I would like to get them all posting in here and then we can organize how we want to go about this. So welcome aboard.
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10-15-08, 01:08 PM   #4
Inygo
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I am fluent in 7 languages, but like Mixsae, i am fairly new to LUA.

There are 2 direct dependencies that i cannot find updates for on the internet.

Metrognome - Wont try to load, shows as too old
DiscordUnitFrames - Tries to load, but has errors


I will look at Metrognome later tonight, as it seems that development on it has been halted. Maybe we will get lucky, and its something simple (like a version check)

As for DUF, i think we need to wait for them to update it.
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10-15-08, 01:14 PM   #5
erogroth
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I think DUF has been discontinued as well. We either may have to update it ourselves or find a new mod to replace it.

Last edited by erogroth : 10-15-08 at 01:41 PM.
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10-15-08, 01:49 PM   #6
alayane
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Hey there,
I'm not really a dev but i did find some info that might help with getting Mazzle back up and running. As far as DUF goes it is still being worked on, just not by the oringinal author. Instead the community is doing the updates. You can find the forums discussing progress and the links to downloads on http://underworldexodus.com
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10-15-08, 01:59 PM   #7
VincentSDSH
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Metrognome works fine under LK, I'm using it in the "Mazzle Replacement" I wrote. You've got something else going on there -- or it's disembedded and needs the .toc updated.
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10-15-08, 02:07 PM   #8
erogroth
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by alayane View Post
Hey there,
I'm not really a dev but i did find some info that might help with getting Mazzle back up and running. As far as DUF goes it is still being worked on, just not by the oringinal author. Instead the community is doing the updates. You can find the forums discussing progress and the links to downloads on http://underworldexodus.com
Thanks for the tip. That helps.
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10-15-08, 02:43 PM   #9
Sarkan-ZdC
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Originally Posted by alayane View Post
Hey there,
I'm not really a dev but i did find some info that might help with getting Mazzle back up and running. As far as DUF goes it is still being worked on, just not by the oringinal author. Instead the community is doing the updates. You can find the forums discussing progress and the links to downloads on http://underworldexodus.com
http://underworldexodus.com/forum/fo...st=7587&page=3

Here is the first fixes incoming.

DUF should work until Weekend.

But what with the rest? The Art/Viewport?
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10-15-08, 05:27 PM   #10
Mixsae
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Exclamation Let's get going!!

Okay, to get things sort of kicked off, I think we need to make a list of what is not working (in terms of straight Mazzle and not the add-ons) so that we can divvy up the work appropriately (this is assuming we get the nod from Mazzle to continue his great work).

I'll start (in a generic sense; I'm still getting a syntax sense of LUA so I don't want to guess at internal problems yet):
Mazzifier -- rather completely hosed; no buttons or tab panes showing
3D Dolls -- not showing at all
spell Buttons -- not showing at all (Doesn't really belong here since this is a bongos issue; but the UI won't work without it, so...)
Chat Window -- off center

that's all I noticed before shutting the whole thing down because I couldn't understand how to play without any spell buttons. We can ask the community for a comprehensive set of "what's broken" like we did with the minor patch...but this is going to take a full on blitz to fix...

I started trying to figure out how the 3-D dolls work, but I've got a long way to go. I'm not sure where Mazzle is getting the images (can't find the table definition anywhere!) so that's going to take a while to sort out.

Also, we should ask Mazzle how he feels about us putting comments in the code. This might make it easier for the next set of 'fixers' to get things working quicker...
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10-15-08, 05:32 PM   #11
Brem
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Originally Posted by Sarkan-ZdC View Post
http://underworldexodus.com/forum/fo...st=7587&page=3

Here is the first fixes incoming.

DUF should work until Weekend.

But what with the rest? The Art/Viewport?
The viewport should be fairly trivial. I think Mazzle was inspired by Aperture, which I used today. As I recall when looking at the viewport code, it was kinda simple.

As for the art, that was also a Discord Mod (DART, IIRC). Not having looked at the updates you posted (yet), I'm unsure if this is being fixed as well.

If we absolutely must find a replacement unit frame that does all that we're used to, we're probably going to have to zero in on Pitbull. Its the only frame addition that I've found that does the vertical bars on unit frames. Pitbull also integrates out of the box with DogTags libraries for putting various texts on the frames. Although it doesn't incorporate any kind of portrait (let alone a snazzy 3D Model) and something will have to be found for that.

I've cobbled a bunch of mods together to make a "fake Mazzle" UI to use in the meantime, but it is decidedly painful trying to set up each of my characters and not have them automagically set up for me.

While I've been learning a bit of LUA, I'm no expert. As I understand the changes the majority of them are around how objects are referenced ('this' vs. 'self' or something like that), the drop down menus interface has changed so that anything that uses drop downs (like all throughout the Mazzifier) will need to change, and finally the changes to Load on Demand modules (which is how most of the mods we're used to change their options -- with a separate LOD module.

All that said, I'm not a coder by trade. I'd actually be of much more use as a tester. In face, I beta-tested the original Mazzle (even before BC)...I think there are actually a decent number of us left that watch these forums.

Let me know how I can help.
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10-15-08, 06:03 PM   #12
Ironfather
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/inv me!

Have the coding background - and the PM heavy side. Also got the QA and testing side with Brem (we actually worked together in RL at one point!).

In all seriousness, it is time for a group of dedicated people to branch this product. He (you) did an outstanding original piece and you should be proud of not only where you got it to, but also how you did not just turn out the lights even when you were taking flak with no reason to continue. However, every product (especially software) has a shelf life and I dare say the bicycle tube can only be patched so many times.

We can cobble together a recovery effort (and it may take less work than first glance suggests); however, WotLK is a very good checkpoint milestone to stop and consider a new branch/UI. Many of the addons it 'suited in' have gone by the wayside or been overcome by better addons. Architecture options and APIs have changed.

It's time to put a small core group together to manage an extended UI dev team. Build a code repository complete with designs and documentation to support developers that may come and go - allowing people to work even on a small piece of code while they are interested in contributing (for however long that may be).

Community-driven (prioritized) requirements based on feature requests and bug tracking need to be added into a code workspace. There is more - but let's cut to the chase.

We can cobble together a patch 3.0.2 recovery team; however, that is not a 'good enough' long term strategy. I applaud that you are shoving the ball to get it rolling - and I'll shoulder in some shoving to help.

I'd like to see a longer list of names volunteering on this thread, and to see a general response as to whether there is an interest in building a new code base for a new UI that really is a development community product rather than a bunch of awesome-intentioned people throwing themselves into patching and fixing cycle on a product we all love, but hate to accept needs to be let go.

If there was a UI that could do what MazzleUI can do (could do), but was supported by a reliable dedicated team and it was working right now - you'd all be downloading it.

Everyone wants to benefit from Mazz's amazing work; however there has not been a serious 'staying power' effort to support it that has succeeded in keeping pace with and in anticipation of WoW updates.

I recommend we branch his work, re-design from the ground up and give him the proper respects for the guidance that is his code base. It's time to respectfully say 'thank you, we'll take on that community burden from here so that you can rest knowing you set the course and expectations by giving us an amazing product in the first place.'

Eyes wide open clause: this ain't gonna be easy like ganking an AFK clothie, it is going to be a massive amount of work and right when everyone is trying to get ready for LK or when they are trying to level to 80. Hence 'small group of dedicated core' with 'extended developers'.

/tip o hat and bestow Achievement title of 'Original Creator' to Mazz!

Right then, let's see if you love it or hate it.

- Ironfather
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10-15-08, 08:26 PM   #13
divstator
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I can help code some, I'm a bit rusty though. It seems to me that What Ironfather said hits pretty close to the mark.

The main thing that I've experienced is that the UI really needs to be more modular. On going patches are going to continually break add-ons. It would be best if most of the custom coding could be removed without losing the feel or look of the UI.

A couple of things I would suggest is centralizing action bar commands so that it would be easier to install/update new action bars. The current author of Bongos has moved to Dominoes. I haven't looked at his code enough to even know if dominoes could be used by the Mazzifier. Might have to look at flexbar or something like that.

The context menu should be replaced with action bars instead of coded seperately I think. Anyways, I'll help a bit with some of the smaller coding jobs, but due to personal issues I can't commit to much more than that.
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10-15-08, 09:47 PM   #14
erogroth
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Once again I want to thank all of you who are showing interest in this project. My goal here is to organize the effort to get a working UI once again. Ironfeather has hit the nail on the head in his suggestions and comments. I think what we are really looking at doing here is a complete revamp of Mazzle not just patching the tire.

Now I am not much of a coder, though I am trying to learn. However, I am getting married in less then 2 weeks and I am working on finishing my CCNA (Cisco Cert). So that said I am may not be too helpful on the coding end but I have other things to offer to this project. I happen to work at a data center and I have my own web server with fairly good bandwidth that I do not pay for. So I would like to get our team put together and then start a web page that would be for our dev team's private use. I would not be able to host the file downloads to the community there but it would be an ideal place for us to work on our project without the cluttered post of the community at large. We could still come here for downloading the mod to users and feedback from the community.

All that said, I want you to email me at [email protected] if you are seriously interested in being a part of this project.
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10-15-08, 10:03 PM   #15
McBean
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Question

I'm no coder by nature, but rather a project manager. If you need some help with organization, defining scope and priortization - I'm more than willing to help with the work and test whatever is needed.

If not, I'll graciously back out of the thread and just keep my eyes open on the status of a revamp.

What's not clear to me is the consensus direction. Is it easier to strip down existing Mazzle infrastructure and modernize what's in place, or are we looking at all new source code with some public wiki for dev/mods/etc? There are pros and cons to each roadmap.

--McBean
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10-15-08, 10:03 PM   #16
Takatalvi
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First of all I'm not a dev, but have a deep wow addon knowledge.

For Unit frames the way they are in DUF/MazzleUI, Pitbull will not suffice. The way the text is set up on party frames would need larger frames that overlap the partytarget frames(unclickable).

Also, pitbull party frames don't allow separate party frames, It's all one mass and impossible to spread out/organize appropriately.

I suggest looking into oUF, it's a basic structure for Unit frames and the layout is handled in a separate lua file. Perfect for Mazzifier's needs.
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10-15-08, 10:32 PM   #17
AvariseAngel
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I did a Ctrl F search and did not see the answer pop up. The replacement for bongos is called Dominos. It appears to have the same config /set up bongos did, except it is /Dominos now.
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10-15-08, 10:37 PM   #18
apolis
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well this might not be a good idea but has anyone taken a look at the new spartan ui? Figured we can get some ideas off of that UI with out completely copying it. I haven't looked at the actually code of it but it would seem like we code take the frames from it to fit mazzle. just a thought and my 2cents.
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10-15-08, 10:39 PM   #19
apolis
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also if you want i can start compiling an updated addon list for the current addon pack for mazzle. i know its not gonna do much good til we fix the mazzifier but it'll give us a sense on where we need to go with it.
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10-15-08, 10:44 PM   #20
AvariseAngel
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Curse auto updater (when it is working) was doing a wonderful job at auto updating all required mods for Mazzle, the only this it cannot touch is the MazzleUI warm up/ pre-load and Mazzifier. So if you are not dependent on the Mazzifier then you can work around it. I just love that little gnome.
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WoWInterface » AddOns, Compilations, Macros » AddOn Help/Support » MazzleUI 3.0/WOTLK Devs Only

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