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07-26-07, 03:26 AM   #1
Detritus
A Cyclonian
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Premium MazzleUI

I've got a few questions about the subscription Mazzle UI idea that Mazz threw out there last week. I want this to turn into a discussion about Mazzle UI's future not a copyright discussion so, for the purposes of this thread can we assume the following (quote for emphasis, I'm not quoting the short pink one here):
The premium/subscription Mazzle UI package will not contain work by any author other than Mazzlefizz. Any third-party mods will be downloaded seperately by the users of MazzleUI.
So, with that dealt with, there seem to be a reasonable number of people interested in a paid-for version of the UI, myself included. The main question I have is: what will I be getting for my money? Stripping out functionality provided by its constituent third-party mods, Mazzle UI offers:
- HUD.
- Auto-configuration/integration of a plethora of third-party mods.
- Centralised management/control over a large number of third-party mods.
- Consistent look/feel.
- Assured interoperability (Mazzle UI has been tested and all third-party mods play nicely together).
- Assured efficiency/performance (The mods being configured/managed by Mazzle UI are both efficient and performant).
[It's worth noting that the last two refer to quality control functions, not actual provision of third-party mods]

So, I get a mod that saves me a lot of time trolling UI mod sites to identify appropriate mods to perform a function. It will also save me a lot of time in setup/config and provides me with tools to make this easier. Mazzle UI selects efficient mods and consequently I have fewer connection/lag related issues (certainly I rarely experience the FPS/disconnection related issues that plague some of my more mod-heavy guild friends). That's pretty much what we have as a baseline for Mazzle. I've probably left some stuff out, I'd be interested to know if I have.

Now, that's what we have at the moment with Mazzle UI. What's on the feature/fix list for the subscription version? For the money ($5 - $10), I'd expect to be seeing new features rolled in each month. Things like replacement of DUF UI Frame configuration with Pitbull layout/configuration, for example. Refinement of the UI to provide more dramatically different layout options, like a minimal set of UI/Raid frames without models etc. (there's a thread about this elsewhere on the forums). Perhaps integration/configuration of Omen/Threat when it hits a release version (integration of threat bars into unit frames has got to be a good thing). I'm sure other people have similar wishlists...and I don't want to turn this into the "Suggestions" thread...just hoping for some indications from Mazzle as to where he'll be taking the UI in the future.

Last edited by Detritus : 07-26-07 at 03:29 AM.
 
07-26-07, 10:50 AM   #2
stevenw9
A Murloc Raider
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6
If payment is required for Mazz to continue working on this project, then i'd pay.

Mainly because I understand that when you take time out of your daily life to work on such a project, it can cause financial issues. However, if at all possible, i'd rather see MazzleUI as a free to use addon for all.

A one time fee I would highly support, a reoccuring fee however I would not. We already pay enough for WoW itself. Not everyone has a good budget to enjoy pay-to-use addons.
 
07-26-07, 11:05 AM   #3
Geboran
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I could see a yearly premium of around $25.00 to be appropriate for such a great UI and effort put forth by Mazzle.

I would think that he would want to offer a few options for payment: monthly, 3-months, 6-months, and yearly, based on what people could do at the time.

I would also hope that Mazzle would continue to provide a "free" version for people to still be able to use; it wouldn't be made available nearly as often as it would be for the paid subscribers (maybe an update every 2-3 months, depending on how patches might "break" it).

For the paid subscribers, I could see Mazzle being willing to work on some specific projects (such as adjusting the UI to use a few of the different, more common unit frames (AG_unitframes and Pitbull most likely to start with) or other such "refinements".

I am curious about what Mazzle has planned specifically, though. And excited.
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07-26-07, 11:12 AM   #4
stevenw9
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Well I just read the topic by mazzle about this and there was alot of discussion about 'selling the code'. This can be worked around rather easily. By supporting the free version still, the compilation can be kept there. This meaning all the addons used. While on the subscribed site Mazzle can release purely and only, his/her work. This is basicly using a 'cut and override' work around.

So really, you're just paying Mazzle for access to Mazzle's 'upgraded' code. Sorta made me think of Mazzle calling it 'MazzleUI Extension'.
 
07-26-07, 12:09 PM   #5
Mazzlefizz
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Originally Posted by Detritus
Stripping out functionality provided by its constituent third-party mods, Mazzle UI offers:
- HUD.
- Auto-configuration/integration of a plethora of third-party mods.
- Centralised management/control over a large number of third-party mods.
- Consistent look/feel.
- Assured interoperability (Mazzle UI has been tested and all third-party mods play nicely together).
- Assured efficiency/performance (The mods being configured/managed by Mazzle UI are both efficient and performant).
[It's worth noting that the last two refer to quality control functions, not actual provision of third-party mods]

So, I get a mod that saves me a lot of time trolling UI mod sites to identify appropriate mods to perform a function. It will also save me a lot of time in setup/config and provides me with tools to make this easier. Mazzle UI selects efficient mods and consequently I have fewer connection/lag related issues (certainly I rarely experience the FPS/disconnection related issues that plague some of my more mod-heavy guild friends). That's pretty much what we have as a baseline for Mazzle. I've probably left some stuff out, I'd be interested to know if I have.
Hmph! That is not a very complete list! You could have found far more stuff on the download page.

Originally Posted by Detritus
Now, that's what we have at the moment with Mazzle UI. What's on the feature/fix list for the subscription version? For the money ($5 - $10), I'd expect to be seeing new features rolled in each month. Things like replacement of DUF UI Frame configuration with Pitbull layout/configuration, for example. Refinement of the UI to provide more dramatically different layout options, like a minimal set of UI/Raid frames without models etc. (there's a thread about this elsewhere on the forums). Perhaps integration/configuration of Omen/Threat when it hits a release version (integration of threat bars into unit frames has got to be a good thing). I'm sure other people have similar wishlists...and I don't want to turn this into the "Suggestions" thread...just hoping for some indications from Mazzle as to where he'll be taking the UI in the future.
If successful, I'd expect to add far stuff far more frequently and regularly than I have been, especially since things are relatively bug-free atm. I'd also expect the things I choose to be more request-driven than mazzle-decision-driven, since I would be doing this solely for the people subscribing and not because I'm playing. That doesn't mean I would honor requests I disagree with, but it does mean I'm more likely to add something that I wouldn't have previously considered b/c it seemed like too much work or was something I did not have a strong interest in.

As for what would be included in these updates, I don't want to list everything right now, but your suggestions aren't so far off. Switching unit frame add-ons is something I've tried to do multiple times, but none of them yet support the flexibility I need to make the same layout. It's getting close though.

I do maintain a request list and an idea lists, so here's a teaser of a few of the things I have in mind:
  • Expanded skins that can specify different viewport sizes, chatframe settings, hotspot locations, etc.
  • Expanded skins that have completely embedded positioning override information, which will allow for radically different layouts and even a larger UI scale.
  • Probably more alternate add-on options in the Mazzifier. For example, a choice of different timer bar add-ons, etc.
  • Updating of button layouts for level 60-70 skills
  • Additional new button layouts based on talent spec
  • More hot-swappable locations. For example, in 25-mans, I like using the place where raid groups 6-8 were to put the MT frames.
  • More hot-swappable items, for example your damage meter, threat meter and boss timers.
  • More raid layouts, most importantly, 25-man layouts
  • Finer granularity of options in the Mazzifier, for example a page that shows exactly which frames will be moved that will allow you to not change frames that you have customized yourself.
  • I have a whole slew of things I'd like to add to my version of Bongos. I won't list them all, but on of the itmes is the ability to save and swap button layouts.
  • A more general notification system where stuff like the aggro bottom panel strobing would only be a component.
  • More options to configure stuff, including what the hotspots do.
  • More smart automations.
Anyway, that's all I'll give in this little preview. No promises on the definite implementation (or timeframe) on any of those items, but those are some of the things I've been considering.

btw, I scribble a note every time I get an idea, so I have pages of stuff that I think I can pull from for quite some time.
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07-26-07, 12:23 PM   #6
Mazzlefizz
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Originally Posted by stevenw9
A one time fee I would highly support, a reoccuring fee however I would not. We already pay enough for WoW itself. Not everyone has a good budget to enjoy pay-to-use addons.
To that I'd say that if you really want the project to be stable, you don't want it to be a one-time fee. With a one-time fee, it would once again be a situation where the amount of time I could rationalize spending on the project would be erratic. Before it was based on donations spurts; with one-time fees, it would be based on "new member spurts", which I think would be even less reliable. IMO, it's much more viable to find some core fans who value it enough to support it regularly.

I do understand that it's not an attractive option to a lot of people, and I don't blame them. It's definitely not for everyone; some people get very little out of the UI (especially those who replace lots of stuff or disable my stuff) while others save tons of time and do things they normally can't do. Some people are very philanthropistic, while others aren't. In any case, if there are enough people that it turns out to be a viable idea, great. If not, c'est la vie.
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07-26-07, 01:16 PM   #7
joive
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No c'est la vie.

I understand a regular fee (monthly or whatever) is better in the long distance for both ends. For all the reasons Detritus mentioned, for the reasons Mazzlefizz is teasing us with, and for not having to read that " c'est la vie" thing anymore. I wont ask when, (<----- innocent deadly trap for the Author) but I hope this materialize soon.
 
07-26-07, 02:39 PM   #8
tmt353
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Ppc

Have you considered making a free website covered in ads, and forced to click on a PPC in order to get into the site? Im not sure how much you get payed per click, but a HUGE amount of people who are clicking the ad in order to get into the homepage may make a lot more than 1/20 of those people paying 5 dollars to subscribe to your website to download your mod, which will be leaked onto rapidshare 10 minutes after you post it. (I know PPC refers to paying search engines everytime someone goes to your site, but I couldn't think of what it was called when you get payed for someone clicking on the ads on your site)

Last edited by tmt353 : 07-26-07 at 02:47 PM. Reason: deleted a repeated word
 
07-26-07, 02:54 PM   #9
123noob
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Too lazy to read the posts... but if this has already been metioned, I'll just flush it out again anyway.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to do what wowace does with the aceupdater? assuming most authors disagree in letting Mazzle to include their mods in this premium idea, we could have something similar to aceupdater, users can download the mods without any hassle.
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07-26-07, 06:43 PM   #10
diveX
A Fallenroot Satyr
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Pay for a User Interface?
Bad Joke!
You're all addicted to WoW...
kids
 
07-26-07, 06:55 PM   #11
Mazzlefizz
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You should have put that in the form of a haiku!

Pay for a UI?
You are addicted to wow
Bad joke! Crazy kids
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07-26-07, 08:42 PM   #12
Olnir Orcsplitter
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Hurmmm.... I would think a 1-time yearly subscription service would not be a bad thing... but I can also see a low payment method per update. But when you start getting into subscriptions you start running into all this legal jargon... what is promised for what is payed for, blah, blah, blah. I really am not sure that I personally would want to go through that... but I am not Mazzle. For example... regular updates would have to be defined... what is considered an actual update and what is only a maintenance issue... lots of things to consider. This would no longer be a simple event to have this updated. I personally have no problems donating to Mazzle's cause since this is a superb UI (and I am not even a kid... diveX) and it shows that quite a bit of time has been taken to organize and code much of this UI, although not all original work, and the testing with other MoDs to see that they "play nice" with each other.
 
07-27-07, 06:24 AM   #13
Maxian
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Just make the site Mazzle *drooool*

Make 3/6/9/12 months subscriptions imho.

Cant wait to bug you with zillions of requests
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07-27-07, 07:12 AM   #14
tintingurl
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Originally Posted by diveX
Pay for a User Interface?
Bad Joke!
You're all addicted to WoW...
kids
i agree with dive why pay for a UI yeah you may get more but like others saying we can update them on are own if you dont feel like it , i guess people can be that lazy to not do it them selfs. i do love mazzleUI though great work but i pay enough to play the game
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07-27-07, 08:48 AM   #15
obsidianblack
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Originally Posted by tintingurl
i agree with dive why pay for a UI yeah you may get more but like others saying we can update them on are own if you dont feel like it , i guess people can be that lazy to not do it them selfs. i do love mazzleUI though great work but i pay enough to play the game

Simple because some people either..... don't have the many hours something like this would take or they don't have the knowledge to do it or they have both the time and the knowledge they just don't want to.

It's not gonna be for everyone, but there are going to be people that are goiing to be willing to pay. It's their choice, and you have stated your's. They want to pay you don't ...... Nuff said
 
07-27-07, 09:25 AM   #16
groosome
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I'm sorry. Have I arrived at a site that sells UI's?

I thought this was a site where hundreds of people share their creations with others free of charge. I can understand an author wanting some sort of monetary gain from their work, hell there are lots of sites out there that sell addons / mods, but is this the place to discuss or debate Mazzle's plans?

Have a little respect for the hundreds of others contributing to everyones enjoyment of the game for free. If Mazzle wants to sell rights to use his UI than more power to him, however if he is serious he would setup his own site and advertise. Using a site that is based on the good will of many many people who like to share their ideas and see others also enjoying something they created is disrespectful of all the other authors.

I honestly have seen more trouble from this UI than any other. The constant warnings while the Ui was being made, the constant policing of the thread by Mods on a daily basis. And now I log on to see debates and discussions that the author wants to make some money. Thats all very well and good, but if this site is going to be a big advertising pool for authors wanting to make money than I will move on to the many others out there.

Mazzle decided a long time ago to release the UI and I'm sure there are many thousands of people greatfull for him doing so. But to than start advertising he wants to sell it really makes his goodwill shown in the past void. You Mods should be ashamed as well. How about policing the authors like you do the general public. Or is WoW Interface becoming a Corporate site and selling UI's ???
 
07-27-07, 09:36 AM   #17
Seerah
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I suggest you research the whole topic before you go around making assumptions. (You know what happens when you assume.....)
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07-27-07, 12:03 PM   #18
joive
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Are you still there?

Originally Posted by groosome
but if this site is going to be a big advertising pool for authors wanting to make money than I will move on to the many others out there.
If you can't do some research on topics before writing such an objective post, yes please.
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07-27-07, 12:35 PM   #19
Sketch
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LOL @ those who have disagreed so far...mostly because their arguments aren't that sound, or based in any sort of real research into the matter.

It just sounds like a lot of people who feel 'entitled' to things, simply because they're free. Well, somebody has to pay, and so far it's been Mazzle with his free time.

Sure, others are very selflessly giving their addons for free, but Mazzle is a completely restructured UI that actually makes the game better. I refuse to play the game with a Vanilla UI, and there are no other UI's out there that offer the functionality and ease of use as Mazzle (I pop and I go, simple as that, no 'loading my user folder, rename to your character, blah blah blah').

I'm for Mazzle setting up a site for this, however, and would be happy to donate web space and bandwidth. I have a plan that allows for multiple sites on one, and right now, I'm not using anything close to my 400gb of bandwidth, and even hosting a huge site like this one for a different game (when I did) it only used up about 60gb a month.

So Mazzle, if you buy the web addy, I'd be happy to donate the space.


Anyway, I think this is a good idea, no matter which way you slice it. If you don't like it? There's the door. No one is forcing this UI on you, and no one ever will (Until the inevitable day when Blizz steals it/disables it entirely like every other super Addon :P). You pay 15 bucks a month to play WoW. And if you're STILL playing it (even with all the nerfs and crap and etc etc etc), what's another 5?

And Mazzle isn't advertising, he's getting a feel for how something like this will go.

And personally, I think all authors should band together and do something similar, and offer a premium service for their addons. Maybe then we wouldn't see so many fall off the face of the earth, or others try and salvage their code, etc. Many a useful addon has died from little to no support or interest.
 
07-27-07, 01:20 PM   #20
tintingurl
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let me make myself clear i would not pay for anyones UI that does not mean that others cant if they want to its up to them.

and for what obsidianblack said it will not be for everyone and will be thier choice.

as for mazzle doing all the work for free and so on how they should be paid for it , well like everyone is saying it was thier choice to do it for free they knew it was going to be a free thing.
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