Quantcast
Letter to Blizzard - December 5th - Page 2 - WoWInterface
Thread Tools Display Modes
12-16-13, 12:07 PM   #21
Flinger
A Deviate Faerie Dragon
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19
I've been away from WoW for years now, but i benefited from Scot's efforts for several years, never payed a cent for it.

Well, it's about time i showed some gratitude for his hard work... It's not much, it will never pay for his countless hours spent on the addon, but still i could not let this pass without stating my support.

You have had way more patience and endurance than i would ever had. I would have shutdown nUI months ago. So cheers mate, i commend you.

Last edited by Flinger : 12-16-13 at 12:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:08 PM   #22
gublok
A Murloc Raider
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Marthisdil View Post
Apparently you don't know how to read on the ways people can get it.

Yes, they can donate and get access.

They can also have someone vouch for them.

Or sending Scott an email asking for access..


this is how it was in the old days was it not
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:11 PM   #23
svar
A Deviate Faerie Dragon
 
svar's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 19
Kkthnx, it is people like you that makes a community bad. You and your kind seems to demand everything for free, always and ever. People like Scott does not owe you anything, if something you owe him, and that is the truth.

I have not used nUI for a long time, but I have read all the mails that have popped in about it, and I just cant understand how stupid some people are, but hey I almost forgot, I see them in trade everyday.
I know there is ways of making it legal an still charge for an addon, look at how Zygor is still in business. Yes, the addon is free, but not the extra content for it, seems to work.

I also see a lot of addons on Curse that have closed comments, and its own community for it, I totally understand that then I see all the hate and childish comments on other addons.

Scott, even if I don't use nUI anymore, I still think it is a piece of good work, and I would never hate you for trying to restrict the community around it.
I too think a good idea would be to have a forum where you are in charge who can enter.

And when I look at announcements like this I'm sure someone misunderstood something among the lines.

To be honest, I think it is a little sad that Blizzard does not allow people to charge for addons, some are great and is a lot of work behind them.
__________________


Quoting the post right above you`re own just make the post unnecessary long.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:13 PM   #24
spiel2001
nUI's Author
 
spiel2001's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,724
Originally Posted by richwarf View Post
However, this 'limiting' of users might be classed as 'premium', so this is where Blizzard might be opbjecting to the latest change.
There's really nothing in the Blizzard policy that says you can't limit users access as I read it. Each of those statements specifically notes monetary compensation for access... be it to download, related services, pay-only features, etc... they are all specifically saying you can't charge for that. Nowhere does it say that an addon author cannot tell a user to go pound sand or that they *have* to give it to every user, blindly.

But, then, maybe that's what they want and they just failed to word it as such. Given that I continue to make it freely available, offer several ways to get it for free and yet am still getting stepped on, apparently that's the case.
__________________

What people don't get is that I am, ultimately, an artist at heart.
My brush has two colors, 1 and 0, and my canvas is made of silicon.



Official nUI Web Site: http://www.nUIaddon.com
Official nUI Support Forum: http://forums.nUIaddon.com
My day job: http://www.presidio.com/
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:15 PM   #25
bruj0
An Aku'mai Servant
 
bruj0's Avatar
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by richwarf View Post
Blizzard really what's all add-ons to be 'freely accessible' to all WoW players. However, they currently have it saying 'free'.
Did anybody stop and think under what reason can Blizzard limit what a person can write or not write?

They dont own the LUA lenguage, addon authors are merely using their API and that doesnt constitue a breach of copyright:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...h-of-copyright

The API are public that means they cant be considered "trade secret" or whatever they want to classify them to
enforce their rules.

They have absolutly 0 legs to stand on limiting authors addons.

So what stops somebody to start charging for an addon if they want , the code will be 100% their copyright,
it is not derivative since there is NO code from Blizzard on any addon ever.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:15 PM   #26
Seer
A Molten Giant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 649
Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
But, then, maybe that's what they want and they just failed to word it as such. Given that I continue to make it freely available, offer several ways to get it for free and yet am still getting stepped on, apparently that's the case.
As I said, communicating never was mankind's strong points. :-)

@bruj0

Not to sure, but in the end, if blizz decides to black list an addon, do you think you got the means to take them on? How does the EULA play out in that case.

Also, blizzard has to protect it's customers, they also handle "support" for addons, even if it's just saying, delete all addons. Yea, sorry you paid 20 bucks for it but you need to disable it. Some people might be ok with that and take action against the author, but many would lash out at blizzard and keep their CS busy.

Forgot what the real intention was, think protecting their player base , but not sure how they worded it. Or they see it from profiting from their trademark, and that's a big nono. If a simple addon can profit from the WoW trademark, without fees being paid to blizzard, how are they going to stop other's abusing their TM?

/edit yea, think its about protecting their trademark so only they can charge/provit from it and not have trouble defending it in court.
__________________
Take it as you want or leave it as it is.

Last edited by Seer : 12-16-13 at 12:28 PM.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:18 PM   #27
gublok
A Murloc Raider
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Glad your UI is being shut down its impossible for you people to see the issue here.

simple if it bothers you so much don't use it
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:21 PM   #28
svar
A Deviate Faerie Dragon
 
svar's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by bruj0 View Post
Did anybody stop and think under what reason can Blizzard limit what a person can write or not write?

They dont own the LUA lenguage, addon authors are merely using their API and that doesnt constitue a breach of copyright:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...h-of-copyright

The API are public that means they cant be considered "trade secret" or whatever they want to classify them to
enforce their rules.

They have absolutly 0 legs to stand on limiting authors addons.

So what stops somebody to start charging for an addon if they want , the code will be 100% their copyright,
it is not derivative since there is NO code from Blizzard on any addon ever.
There have been situations where addons have been banned by Blizzard, I think they then restricted the API`s that can be used or something like that.
I remember there was an addon long long time ago that draw things onto the 3D world, that is not longer allowed to do. Maybe I just misunderstood you on what you meant too.
__________________


Quoting the post right above you`re own just make the post unnecessary long.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:21 PM   #29
Bomyne
A Flamescale Wyrmkin
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Honestly the idea that you are trying to get people to pay for your addon is sickening. We already pay 15 bucks a month to play the game. Its like we have to pay to use the bathroom but we already pay for our house payments... Makes no sense and sounds greedy. You do not have to put up with anyone at all, there are ways around all that.
You pay for Windows, so all software that runs on Windows should be free?

It's the same thing. I've always disagreed with Blizzard's "Addons must be free" policy. I understand why it's there (To stop someone charging you for an addon that is terrible quality, barely works, whatever or even doesn't do what it is described to do) but that's the same with any software industry. In my opinion, addon authors should have the same control over their software that regular Windows/Mac software authors have.

But money, from what I understand, isn't the issue here. Scott was disappointed by the lack of response to his donation drive, but the thing that hurt him the most is the abuse he received from his so called fans. You don't want to donate to what Scott considers a worthy cause? Fine. Ignore the email. Unsubscribe from the email list. Don't hit the reply button and immediately send a hate filled email. Don't jump on the forums and whine about it. Just ignore it. He wasn't demanding or requiring we donate to anything. He asked us if we could please spare a few dollars, and that is all he did.

Sorry for the little rant, but if I was in Scott's shoes, I'd be just as hurt at the community's reaction. Except I, unlike Scott, would probably close up shop altogether.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:21 PM   #30
Djinn.Crimsora
An Aku'mai Servant
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 31
Scott-

As I said in my original email to you when you made the first announcement, I'm in full support of you & your crusade against the Troll-Legions everywhere.

I can say in all honesty that your work on nUI over the years has truly ruined me for ANY OTHER user interface addon available past, present or future - I cannot remember when I started using the addon, I cannot remember how I was able to play without it, and I even had to stop playing the game at times when nUI wasn't playing nice with the latest expansion's codes. Your work, combined with a couple other ease-of-use addons, keep me playing. Being legally blind, your efforts in creating a UI addon that condenses the necessary elements of the UI into a centralized locale and streamlined them into an elegant display makes playing the game so much easier.

To that end: I am going to say that, in the event that Blizzard actually distributes game code that blocks the use of nUI and any other mods you have out there, I am going to be discontinuing my support for Blizzard and fully embracing the other MMORPGs on the market. Why give my business to a company that is willing to ruin the reputation of one of their best addon-contributors, someone who they, in the past, PRAISED and ADMIRED because of his contributions?

I may be in a minority on this matter, but I've been in a minority since birth so I don't care how those with different viewpoints are going to react to this. I am firm in my beliefs and will absolutely quit WoW if I am not able to use one of the most crucial addons I have ever come across.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:24 PM   #31
Holzy
A Murloc Raider
 
Holzy's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 9
Scott keep doing what your doing. If ppl cant get over or are to lazy to try and help or even just write u an email they dont deserve your great UI. The number of ppl that support you will always out number those that dont.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:24 PM   #32
Kailef
A Fallenroot Satyr
 
Kailef's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 27
Solution, maybe?

I don't normally like to get involved in public debates such as this, because so much of the public has a tendency to ignore facts and spew drivel. This makes the entire "debate" a pointless exercise most of the time. Still, I think it's important for Scott to see some responses from the public that aren't negative in nature. I really appreciate the support I've seen in this thread for Scott.

First my opinion: I think Scott is a great, hard working guy. I don't know him personally but I've been using nUI for years, and I've been sending him a (admittedly small) monthly donation for years. I think he was treated horribly when he asked for voluntary donations (before all this started) for his charity, and so many users responded by flaming him. I think Scott may have overreacted in his initial response, but that's perfectly understandable. Since that point, this issue has clearly spun out of control.

My thinking on the matter:

A. Continue to release the full version of nUI to the public.
B. Do not charge or restrict access (in any way) to said download of the full version of nUI.
C. Provide technical support and accept bug reports only on the nUI website subscriber section. Do not participate in support forums elsewhere.
D. Only provide access to the nUI website subscriber section to those who have donated, volunteer their time to assist, or that you (Scott) for whatever reason chose to grant access to.

I figure that this will insure that the code meets Blizzard's "free access" requirement, while keeping a buffer between Scott and the trolls with their highly overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

What do you think?
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:25 PM   #33
Bomyne
A Flamescale Wyrmkin
AddOn Author - Click to view addons
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by bruj0 View Post
Did anybody stop and think under what reason can Blizzard limit what a person can write or not write?

They dont own the LUA lenguage, addon authors are merely using their API and that doesnt constitue a breach of copyright:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...h-of-copyright

The API are public that means they cant be considered "trade secret" or whatever they want to classify them to
enforce their rules.

They have absolutly 0 legs to stand on limiting authors addons.

So what stops somebody to start charging for an addon if they want , the code will be 100% their copyright,
it is not derivative since there is NO code from Blizzard on any addon ever.
Legally, I don't think Blizzard's policy would standup in court (I am no legal expert though). That's like Apple saying you can't root the iPhone (That has already been challenged in court, and Apple lost), or Microsoft saying you can only use Internet Explorer. BUT from a technical stand point, I'm sure they have a ban list function of some kind that can recognize addons they don't like and put a stop to them.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:49 PM   #34
Zimu
A Murloc Raider
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8
Sigh.

I am overly glad to see not only public users(such as myself) but also other Add-on Authors posting in support of Scott and NUI.

Now, I haven't played WOW for about 6 months now, but prior to that NUI was my only way to play successfully. I tried other interfaces, but just didn't like how they performed, and always fell back to NUI when updates were available.

I tried helping on the support end, but ultimately my lack of Add-on programming experience limited me to simply posting bugs and testing stuff when I could.

I hope Blizzard doesn't do something drastic like block NUI, but I agree with many users here that the best course would be to continue to make the add-on freely available in its full version, but simply limit the support and bug reporting to those users who have demonstrated their willingness to help the community along.

I sincerely hope that NUI is still there for me when I do eventually come back to WOW.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:50 PM   #35
laisydayla
A Defias Bandit
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2
Brokenhearted

I posted this in another thread, putting it over here as well:

Let me go on record as one who has played WoW since the vanilla days and has seen a HUGE shift in game experience over the years. When I first started playing WoW, the community was one of friendship and helping one another achieve success. Teamwork was the name of the game. You built friendships, you leveled your character and you joined guilds. Joining a guild created a sense of community that has been lost over the years. When new raids came out, we all raided in BG gear, because crafted epics were still considered quality gear at that time (another thing that has been changed that I think takes away from the community of the game) and none of us could afford crafted gear and we hadnt gotten our raiding epics yet so we used BG gear, affectionately termed "ghetto epics." Since WoW has grown in popularity, two major changes have occurred that, in my opinion, have destroyed the game. The first was the loss of community. When the servers were opened up the need to join a guild really became a thing of the past because people can now raid LFG their entire playing career and never really need a guild. That destroyed something that was key to WoW being a good game. The other thing that happened was the increase of children playing the game. Vanilla days consisted of a lot more adults playing than kids and over the last 5 - 6 years, that has changed greatly and now there are a lot more kids playing. Modern children live a life of privilege that those of us over 30 cannot comprehend and they have no values, morals or character. As a result, they treat people with absolutely no respect and that is now rampant across the community of WoW and has slowly chipped away at the sense of community and friendship that was so prevalent in vanilla days and now with the LFG change, that community has been obliterated. Unfortunately, Scott has gotten caught up in that change simply by trying to stand up for himself, as is his right by the way, and the result has been heartbreaking to watch as one who has supported his efforts both morally and from time to time financially over the years. All Scott has tried to do is attempt to maintain that sense of community that was once so prevalent in the game of WoW within his own environment of development and he has been called on the carpet for it as though he had thrown a temper tantrum, picked up his toys and gone home, which he has NOT done!! I have read every email he has written since this entire ridiculousness got started and he has been very clear, very concise and very professional the entire time. He has not demanded everyone pay for his addon, (which is ALSO his right, I might add!!) he has simply asked that those who have supported his efforts in the past and been a positive force in the development life of nUI sign up for a new list so that he can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Have any one of you people who have ripped Scott's heart open considered the vast amount of time and effort Scott has freely given over the last eight years? People make good money doing what he does for FREE!! In any other realm of society, he would be charging good money to PROFIT for his efforts because as a developer, that is his right, it's his product that he developed on his own!! Yet by standing up for himself he has apparently committed the cardinal sin in this community and he hasnt even hinted that he will be charging for nUI by moving it over to a private forum. In fact, he has offered that any donations that are made be given over to a charity organization!! I think everyone at Blizzard and at WOWI and Curse owe Scott and other developers like him a HUGE debt of gratitude because if it were not for developers like Scott, WOWI and Curse wouldnt even exist, but instead of supporting him, you have chosen to cut him out of the community all together. I am appalled by the reaction of this site. I used to think this site was the best addon site there was. I will rethink that should I ever return to playing WoW in the future, which at this point I'm not sure I will do since it seems the community has only gotten worse since I left last year.

If I were Scott, I'd simply walk away and not deal with this emotional deluge anymore and take my 36,000 users with me. But he has not done that, he has continued to try to work through the misunderstandings and problems to receive even more misunderstanding and abuse. This site has lost my support and I hope the other users of nUI that have been there over the years walk away from WOWI as well.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:50 PM   #36
Mythemm
A Defias Bandit
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2
What is so hard to understand here?

Originally Posted by Kkthnx View Post
Your 4 ways, state donation to obtain the UI. That is paying. Should I go over your 4 ways? All 4 ways require some sort of payment.

Blizzard not sharing with you? LMAO. This right here. Come on man pure greediness man. If you wanna be paid to code, this is not the place to (try) that. You doing what your doing will get you in the wrong hands with blizzard. Just follow the rules. WOWI is not shutting you down for no reason.
I think Scott has made his point quite clear and honestly I can't blame him a bit:

* Pay for the software, you get it.
* Want it for FREE? There are several ways to do that too.

This isn't rocket science, folks.

The point here is only that Scott is getting tired of people treating him like crap. Nobody deserves that. If someone has issues or questions about software, there are ways to offer constructive criticism and ask for help WITHOUT treating someone like the stuff one scrapes off one's shoe. That goes for Scott as well as the people behind the scenes at Blizzard. (Note that I say this knowing that neither Scott nor Blizzard can or will do anything for me, now, or at any time.)

All this crap coming down on Scott makes it look like it's a legal requirement that he take abuse from people that should be locked off the Internet altogether, and likely put away in a tower somewhere for crimes against society as a whole. I'll tell you what, though-- with the direction this is going, the only people that are really going to lose are those in the Gaming Community.

Myself, I don't play WoW anymore, and ONLY for that reason I do not use nUI anymore. It's a good addon though, even if some people feel it isn't for them.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:52 PM   #37
Marauder_IIc
A Fallenroot Satyr
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 28
WOW Scott, this BS is still raging on huh.
Well, frankly, its your code, you don't have to put up with **** from others for it, and franklyIm inclined to tell anyone with an attitude about you not giving stuff away for free THEN getting bitched at for it that I have a brick wall outside you can address any and all complaints to. They can't be bothered to be mature adults about somehting they are not paying for, f***em as far as im concerned. I did email you a little while back as well regarding all of this nonsense. To me this sounds like a job I used to have in school.... I bounced some, and when people got out of hand, let them know they were out of line and to calm down, if they got more angry/rowdy, then I put a hand on their shoulder and escort them to the door. No bar needs the money that bad. In the same way, you do not need to put up with this type of immature BS from people, plain and simple.
You did what was within your rights, and if people hadn't picked the fight then pushed your hand the way they did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I currently work in customer service, and the first thing I tell all new trainees is this, sometimes you need to let someone speak their mind, BUT, you are NOT a punching bag, you are here to help, you are not hear to be **** on and insulted by people, and certainly not to be cursed at and threatened by those that come form the shallow end of the gene pool.

Take care Scott, know that there are STILL ADULTS who use your software and appreciate what you have done.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:56 PM   #38
chuckcxr
A Defias Bandit
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2
Total Ignorance?

How illiterate or ignorant are some of these clowns???
Spiel's said it's still going to have FREE access still for months now and even uploaded updates a couple days ago.
If you're too lazy to write him a quick 10 second email for access, then you don't deserve the add-on that he's slaved away at for years and is hands down one of the most comprehensive and great to use adding available, and I've tried me all and been playing since vanilla.

And either Cairenn is just blunder-fully ignorant or just flat out lying, their thread is completely untrue.
There are multiple ways to get FREE access to the add-on still, that only take a few seconds, including wow matrix and curse. In either case Cairenn's blind and irrational jump to false judgment is extremely unprofessional, and not what you'd hope to see from an admin.
It just simply isn't true.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:58 PM   #39
Doubleosix
A Murloc Raider
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7
nUI sadness

It is so sad to see that such a war can start over nothing. To me nUI has been a must have from the first appearance. The man did a wonderful job of it at a time when he was down and out. He has never required payment for this add on, and I feel just like any body else, he would like a few bucks for a job well done, he would also like some return for his effort. Even though one can understand that WOW does not want people riding on their coat tails, or extorting the players, I can not see why it is such a big deal if some one does receive a few bucks. This whole thing is a series of misunderstandings and a couple of rude and ungrateful people mouthing off.

If you do not like him and his opinions, leave, you are free to do so. If you like him and his work, stay. Throw a few bucks his way, say thank you and go play WOW.
  Reply With Quote
12-16-13, 12:58 PM   #40
greyranger
A Kobold Labourer
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1
Thumbs up

Scott I don't play wow anymore due to the asshats ,but when I was playing your addon was the one of choice I donated a few times because it was the moral thing to do to help compensate your time and research to keep it running ,I support the stand you are taking ,Someone needs to show the immature players it will not be tolerated any more .
Best of luck and continue fighting the good fight ..

/Salute
  Reply With Quote

WoWInterface » Featured Projects » nUI, MozzFullWorldMap and PartySpotter » General » nUI: Community Chat » Letter to Blizzard - December 5th

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off