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03-20-09, 10:07 PM   #41
Maul
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Originally Posted by Nightspirit View Post
It's almost April 1st guys, might have anything to do with the Blizz announcement?
If it was, it would have been announced on April 1st. This is the official direction that Blizzard is going right now.
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03-20-09, 10:07 PM   #42
Yhor
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Originally Posted by Nightspirit View Post
It's almost April 1st guys, might have anything to do with the Blizz announcement?

No, definitely not. 10 days out is not Blizzard style. This has come on the heels of the introduction to Battle.net. This, imo, has everything to do with microsoft managed advertising software being implemented into the game, tba at a later date.

I may be misreading into this, but the more I read, the more I come to this conclusion.
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03-20-09, 10:15 PM   #43
Crepusculu
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I found these rules interesting. They don't really change anything for my work and I don't personally feel the need to conflict with them, but it does raise some questions.



Individual rules that I disagree with:


#2 -- Add-on code must be completely visible.
Two issues with this

"completely visible". How does Blizzard have any legal control over legibility? I can see their goal is to remove DRM-ish stuff, but beyond the lua and xml APIs, it's the original author's work. So if the author writes sloppy buggy code... so? If the author puts in a simple encryption/compression, what exactly has the author done wrong legally? Just because Blizzard says they cannot read your addon -- I see no legal grounds for this.

"Publicly accessible". Not only does it costs servers to host addons for the general public, but I have several personal addons that I don't make public. If I made a personally addon that improved my gameplay over some one else's... that means I'm forced to use my own resources to host an addon for fair play? I have to upload my addon to the internet before I use it? What is the line that Blizzard is looking for?


#3 -- "unnecessary loading from the hard disk, and slow frame rates"

While such things are a goal for authors, forcing Quality Control onto people that you don't pay (Blizzard onto authors) does not make sense to me. And really... EVERY addon will slow frame rates. Addons that preform a lot of work can drop my framerate below a playable level, but that doesn't mean I cannot simply turn it off. I turn off combat parsing addons while doing serious raidings. Addons are not required to play, so why does there need to be a self-monitored, no-pay QC?

This rule is vague and so inclusive of everything that Blizzard could slap this rule against anyone they didn't like.


#6 -- "offensive or objectionable material"

Too subjective, and thus too inclusive. Any addon with an opinion, statement, or belief is also victim to this.



#7 -- ToU and EULA

Addons are not people. Addons don't follow ToU, because they cannot agree to a terms of usage. This needs to be reworded to something along the lines of

"All add-ons must not contribute to the breaking the User's compliance with the World of Warcraft Terms of Use and the World of Warcraft End User License Agreement. "






And in general, how does Blizzard have any legal rights over the copyrighted work that others have produced? Blizzard has supplied a lua and xml engine, and they can control what goes into these engines via their ToU and EULA, but Blizzard doesn't own the lua or xml language.

My biggest issue is that Blizzard has been successful partly due to addons, and has taken works of addons and included into their own code, but when Blizzard's product has grown to a certain size, they decide its time to shed off the third party support that helped make the game popular as if they OWNED / PRODUCED THE RIGHTS TO THE POPULARITY THAT WAS GAINED.


But like I said before, the rules don't really affect me anyways. I just think the rules are overstepping the bounds.
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03-20-09, 10:15 PM   #44
Kaydeethree
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Originally Posted by Yhor View Post
No, definitely not. 10 days out is not Blizzard style. This has come on the heels of the introduction to Battle.net. This, imo, has everything to do with microsoft managed advertising software being implemented into the game, tba at a later date.

I may be misreading into this, but the more I read, the more I come to this conclusion.
As sad as I am to post this, I'm beginning to agree that this is a result of the MS thing.
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03-20-09, 10:34 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Crepusculu View Post
Individual rules that I disagree with:

#2 -- Add-on code must be completely visible.
Download Carbonite and take a look at their code. That is what Blizzard is really referencing. Carbonite uses some tricks to make it difficult for someone outside their development group to read their code. Blizzard wants code to be as plain as their code is. Sloppy or not is not really the issue.
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03-20-09, 10:39 PM   #46
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My $.02:

I am both for and against this new policy. I think the major issue that I have are these two:
5) Add-ons may not solicit donations.

Add-ons may not include requests for donations. We recognize the immense amount of effort and resources that go into developing an add-on; however, such requests should be limited to the add-on website or distribution site and should not appear in the game.

6) Add-ons must not contain offensive or objectionable material.

World of Warcraft has been given a “T” by the ESRB, and similar ratings from other ratings boards around the world. Blizzard Entertainment requires that add-ons not include any material that would not be allowed under these ratings.
I think #5 should be changed to "may not solicit donations in an intrusive manner". Frankly, if nUI or Quest Helper or any other addon has a small blurb when it loads or a small donation button in the corner, these should be allowed. Either that, or the automatic updaters need to be changed so that the Author can put a donation link somewhere where the user can see it when it is being downloaded, which would require a change of policy on those sites that produce them.

As for number 6, well, that's kind of ridiculous. I can understand not allowing, say, an addon that spams obcenities into chat, but frankly if it doesn't impact anone ELSE'S experience in game, I should be allowed to have, say, a durability meter that showed how badly your equipment is damaged by armor falling off of a big-breasted lady.
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03-20-09, 11:15 PM   #47
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Just my two copper, but I agree with just about all of it.

Only change I support is having an in-game Donate link for the authors. no popups or anything intrusive, but a button that you have to click for the donate info is perfectly acceptable.
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03-20-09, 11:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Crepusculu View Post
#3 -- "unnecessary loading from the hard disk, and slow frame rates"

While such things are a goal for authors, forcing Quality Control onto people that you don't pay (Blizzard onto authors) does not make sense to me. And really... EVERY addon will slow frame rates. Addons that preform a lot of work can drop my framerate below a playable level, but that doesn't mean I cannot simply turn it off. I turn off combat parsing addons while doing serious raidings. Addons are not required to play, so why does there need to be a self-monitored, no-pay QC?

This rule is vague and so inclusive of everything that Blizzard could slap this rule against anyone they didn't like.
I have a feeling this is intended to be directed at intentional deterioration of gameplay. I doubt they will ban addons simply because it was poorly written.

Originally Posted by Crepusculu View Post
#6 -- "offensive or objectionable material"

Too subjective, and thus too inclusive. Any addon with an opinion, statement, or belief is also victim to this.
Have you ever read your terms of service for gameplay? Blizzard has an immense amount of discretion and this is probably intentionally vague so that Blizzard can make that discretion. Adding in specific cases without leeway is tantamount to suicide as anyone will always find a loophole. Naturally we would expect this would be enforced in the same manner as is all other discretionary policies Blizzard maintains.
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03-20-09, 11:30 PM   #49
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WOW..

Everyone, take a step back and breathe for sec..... /facepalm.

Reality is that people who donate are STILL going to donate. Blizz has absolutely no way of knowing that. There is no reason for anyone to take thier donation links down off of this site. This site is not owned or operated by Blizz. And I doubt they really could give half a rats booty about it. The only thing you cannot do is put a donation button in game.

Good lord.. Virtual pitchforks for everyone I guess.......
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03-20-09, 11:44 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Evolution85 View Post
WOW..Good lord.. Virtual pitchforks for everyone I guess.......
Can I have one? I could use it to stab 3 gold spammers at once
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03-20-09, 11:47 PM   #51
Gemini_II
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Originally Posted by Shirik View Post
Can I have one? I could use it to stab 3 gold spammers at once
LMAO! Go Shirik! We could form a phalanx...
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03-21-09, 12:08 AM   #52
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Step back guys, before I have to step in .... keep it civil.
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03-21-09, 12:11 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
/sigh

Let me make this as absolutely positively crystal clear as I possibly can... putting a donation link on your download page doesn't work.

Period.

End of statement.

Full stop.
You are wrong. I only have donate links on my addon pages, absolutely ZERO mention of donations in-game. I have made quite a bit off donations, if you feel like digging through all my addons you can find out exactly how much.

No, donations are never going to be a "steady income", and if you believe they can be you're a fool. But then, the people that do realize this are charging for leveling guides and addons, and making good money doing it. The other fools like me are programming for the sheer joy of it, and getting a little kickback from grateful users.
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03-21-09, 12:30 AM   #54
Crepusculu
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Originally Posted by Shirik View Post
Have you ever read your terms of service for gameplay? Blizzard has an immense amount of discretion and this is probably intentionally vague so that Blizzard can make that discretion.
The terms of service is just as bad -- Whatever happened to enforcing good character names =(

Even though I understand the spirit behind the rules, they are stated in such a manner that I already feel incriminated. Example: One of my addons listed WoWInterface as a source. Nothing can stop you from calling that an advertisement of a service.


Why don't they just get to the point and simply say that Blizzard holds the right to cut your service and charge you if your addon goes against their desires?

Last edited by Crepusculu : 03-21-09 at 12:34 AM. Reason: Shorten
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03-21-09, 12:48 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Crepusculu View Post
Even though I understand the spirit behind the rules, they are stated in such a manner that I already feel incriminated. Example: One of my addons listed WoWInterface as a source. Nothing can stop you from calling that an advertisement of a service.
I don't think they would see a link to WoWInterface as an advertisement of a service as WoWInterface is a free site hosting free add-ons for the Warcraft community. I would imagine they mean advertisements as a link to purchase the full version of an add-on, or a link to a website where you have to pay a membership fee for service.

You have the option of becoming a site supporter here and paying a fee, it isn't mandatory so you're not advertising something that costs anyone money up front, just a free community.
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03-21-09, 01:06 AM   #56
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Okay guys I don't want to have to start doing cleanup, because in all honesty it's a real pain in the butt clicking all those buttons because they're in obscure areas that I always forget because I (thank god) don't have to use them that much.

So, to preserve my sanity (or what's left of it), let's take this away from being as personal as it has gotten and focus solely on the more global issue. I realize some authors have different opinions on how they want their things to be distributed/advertised/whatever, but let's leave personal lives out of it (that includes attacking one's moral behaviors, especially because there is more than one belief of what is "moral").
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03-21-09, 01:18 AM   #57
Yhor
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Originally Posted by Shirik View Post
Okay guys I don't want to have to start doing cleanup, because in all honesty it's a real pain in the butt clicking all those buttons because they're in obscure areas that I always forget because I (thank god) don't have to use them that much.

So, to preserve my sanity (or what's left of it), let's take this away from being as personal as it has gotten and focus solely on the more global issue. I realize some authors have different opinions on how they want their things to be distributed/advertised/whatever, but let's leave personal lives out of it (that includes attacking one's moral behaviors, especially because there is more than one belief of what is "moral").

So personal attacks on Blizzard is not okay?

Guess I'll have to find the neighbors cat.

/jest

I do hope the conversation can continue in a completely civil manner though, I am intrigued at the possible cause and effect of all of this. I sincerely hope Blizzard will shed some light soon.
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03-21-09, 01:20 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by spiel2001 View Post
/sigh

Let me make this as absolutely positively crystal clear as I possibly can... putting a donation link on your download page doesn't work.

Period.

End of statement.

Full stop.
Well, sorry but I have donated to Addon authors where I have liked the addon. I have not donated to you because I have not ever seen your addon tbh.

If someone is impressed with an addon's features AND basically an honest person they will pay. If they are not, they will not, even if you shove the 'donate NOW' button up there nose.

Creating and maintaining any addon was your choice. Free choice so do not moan because you are not being paid. I hold store doors open for people who need it, and sometimes other people go through the door too. I do not expect to get paid, I can choose not to hold open the door. You can choose not to write/maintain addons and do a job that pays you for your effort
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03-21-09, 01:24 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by meganbto View Post
I hold store doors open for people who need it, and sometimes other people go through the door too. I do not expect to get paid, I can choose not to hold open the door.
This is a great analogy, but I'm afraid you're very clearly lying. Stores don't have manual doors anymore!

*hides*
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03-21-09, 01:25 AM   #60
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Seriously guys, enough with making it personal. This is the last time I'm saying it.

Debate, civilly, the policy. Leave the personal stuff OUT of it.
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