Addon Author Practices

[Ackis]

Trying to get some discussion going regarding addon author practises, their "morals" and what they do. Not interested in flames (I know you'll do it regardless :P).

Anyways, a recent popular addon, DBM has put a big, blatant gold seller add on their web-page. Now gold-selling by itself, I feel is meh. IMO if me as a player farms gold and wants to sell it, all the power to me. The issue comes in when companies get involved and use unscrupulous practises such as account stealing, hacking, exploiting, etc to get that gold. That's where it starts to hurt the users.

http://www.postimage.org/aV1hbbQJ-d1...0a99274166.jpg

Now we all know that the major release sites have had gold selling ads now and then. This is 99% on accident and they remove them ASAP. However with this one project, it was done on purpose:

Well, we have very pragmatic reasons for this new ad: they generate more revenue* than other ads. We previously had these "buy fancy gold guide and get rich with the AH" banners, the new banner is up since Friday. It will stay for at least one month to see how it performs compared to other banners.

http://deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1487

We are a community, and we stand up for each other. Author rights mean nothing to them. WoWMatrix and how Curse and WoWI responded to them are just a big "QQ".

I considered writing a longer post about the "WoWMatrix issue" but I decided that it's simply not worth the effort. Updating DBM with WoWMatrix still works fine as it downloads it directly from here and not from Curse or WoWInterface. It will always update DBM to the latest stable version nd never to the alpha build so if you want to use it in Ulduar you might want to consider to update it manually. About 60% of all downloads from this site come from WoWMatrix users (about 400.000 of 660.000 downloads since the patch day) but this is perfectly fine, I don't consider it "stealing bandwidth" as Curse and WoWInterface do. The whole post on Curse that I linked is basically a big "QQ we need more monies!!11" thing. But I must admit that Curse's stance to this is understandable as they are a company and they need to make money from something...if they also have 60% WoWMatrix users (I don't think that the rate is that high on curse overall, I'd guess 30-40%)...well, that still sucks.

http://deadlybossmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1371

Plus the whole issue of how DBM got it's code/timers originally.

So TLDR: What do you feel about these issues? I know DBM has been singled out for examples in this post, because it has recently happened.

Update:
Apology by DBM issued:

The banner in question will be removed by June 15th (not earlier because it is already paid for until that date...(details are mentioned earlier, please read the whole thread before posting a flame Razz)). I want to apologize for this banner, the advertised site is clearly against the ToS of the game and it was a bad idea to have such an ad on a quite big site like this one. It was never our intention to upset or annoy any of our users, we were just trying to get a little money (exactly $180) out of a project in which we invested thousands of hours of work. But we apparently chose the the wrong approach here Razz But we are not doing it for the money in the end (well, developing free and open source software like DBM would be a very poorly paid job if you see it as a job and not as a hobby...), we just want to enhance your and our gaming experience in a great game we all love so much.

http://deadlybossmods.com/forum/view...hp?p=4264#4264

[Ackis]

ANTI-FLAME BANANAS:

[Slakah]

I'm already boycotting them (not that I used DBM in the first place :P).

[Dridzt]

1. I don't agree with supporting gold-selling websites.
Providing ad-space to them is support.
2. I express my disagreement by not visiting the offending site.
3. Until such time as their addon violates Blizzard's addon policy in-game or out
OR they violate the rules of the addon hosting sites #2 is also the full extent of action I'm prepared to take.
4. I find this topic as well as the multitude of similar ones started on wowace/wow forums/curse etc useless and more or less just flame-bait.
(5. I'm not a DBM user myself, I use the other "major" bossmod addon).

If the purpose of all these threads is to inform then /shrug.

If the purpose is to instigate some kind of response from the addon hosting sites it's a slippery road and nothing but a witch-hunt imo.
(DBM's author practice is one I don't particularly like but he/they are not breaking any rules at this point)

[Venificus]

I think these things tend to get blown out of all proportion.

Calling the display of gold seller ads a "moral" issue is like prosecuting someone for attempted murder for shooting someone with a squirtgun. It's just ridiculous. There are so many real moral problems out there that to even put this on the same level is absurd.

And the whole point about WoWMatrix was that it should be the author's choice, right? If an author chooses not to allow WM to host their addon, so be it. That's the right we were all supporting, right?

Well, then if an author does in fact grant WM permission to host their addon, that's their right too and nobody should be criticizing them for it.

By all means, if you think you're entitled to some say in which ads an author displays on his private website or who he chooses to allow distribution deals with, then you can exercise the only right you have as an end user of a free product and stop using it -- but it seems crazy to me.

[Tearstar]

Originally Posted by Venificus I think these things tend to get blown out of all proportion. Calling the display of gold seller ads a "moral" issue is like prosecuting someone for attempted murder for shooting someone with a squirtgun. It's just ridiculous. There are so many real moral problems out there that to even put this on the same level is absurd. And the whole point about WoWMatrix was that it should be the author's choice, right? If an author chooses not to allow WM to host their addon, so be it. That's the right we were all supporting, right? Well, then if an author does in fact grant WM permission to host their addon, that's their right too and nobody should be criticizing them for it. By all means, if you think you're entitled to some say in which ads an author displays on his private website or who he chooses to allow distribution deals with, then you can exercise the only right you have as an end user of a free product and stop using it -- but it seems crazy to me.

This has got to be the most intelligent post I have seen reguarding this whole issue . . . you are now my Elite-WorldBoss!

I agree 100% and I'm a user, and author. I host Mini-Targ on WowInterface, and WowMatrix but I don't care who uses what ads, who asks for what money for what, I can always find what I want "free" and without malicious code.

[Phanx]

I'll just repost what I posted in the same thread on WoWAce:

If you believe that because you dislike the fact that the authors of DBM express support for gold selling and WoWMatrix on their own website, there exists grounds for removing DBM from public addon hosts like WoWInterface and Curse, it would logically follow that you would argue in favor of deleting all addons whose authors supported something on their own website that you felt was "bad", even if no mention of that thing was to be found anywhere in the addon itself or on its WoWI/Curse download pages.

While gold selling and WoWMatrix are things a lot of us as WoW players and addon authors dislike, where do you draw the line?

If an addon author, on his own website, displays a banner ad soliciting support for, or posts a statement expressing support for, <take your pick of abortion rights, gay marriage, militant veganism, whale hunting, PETA, NAMBLA, or baby seal clubbing>, and you believe that <insert cause here> is "bad", do you think his addons should be deleted from WoWI/Curse?

If an addon author, on his own website, displays **** ads, do you think his addons should be deleted?

If an addon author, on his own website, uses a pink color scheme, and you hate the color pink, do you think his addons should be deleted?

Another point to consider is that if you did somehow convince WoWI and Curse to stop hosting DBM, you would actually be increasing the number of people viewing the DBM website's gold selling ads and WoWMatrix supporting posts, because everyone would have to go there to get the addon. With a solidly established and ubiquitously popular addon like DBM, you're not going to kill it off by removing it from the most popular addon hosting sites.

Also, what percentage of DBM users do you think have ever visited the DBM website? What percentage do you think visit the DBM website regularly? I would guess that the majority don't even know there is a DBM website. Again, forcing all DBM users to use the DBM website would accomplish nothing but increase revenue for DBM's authors and increase exposure to gold-selling ads.

Finally, the authors of DBM don't make any money from people downloading DBM from WoWI or Curse. If anything, it would make sense for you to try to get people to only download DBM from public addon hosts, and not from the DBM website.

[Slakah]

Originally Posted by Phanx I'll just repost what I posted in the same thread on WoWAce: etc.

Phanx this is a different thread, nowhere on the WoWI forum has Ackis mentioned removing DBM from WoWI.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by Phanx If you believe that because you dislike the fact that the authors of DBM express support for gold selling and WoWMatrix on their own website, there exists grounds for removing DBM from public addon hosts like WoWInterface and Curse, it would logically follow that you would argue in favor of deleting all addons whose authors supported something on their own website that you felt was "bad", even if no mention of that thing was to be found anywhere in the addon itself or on its WoWI/Curse download pages.

I don't know about WoWAce, but I haven't seen anyone here suggest it should be removed from the site. People have only stated that they don't like it and think it is questionable practice to display gold seller ads.

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by Venificus By all means, if you think you're entitled to some say in which ads an author displays on his private website or who he chooses to allow distribution deals with, then you can exercise the only right you have as an end user of a free product and stop using it -- but it seems crazy to me.

No one here, I'm sure, feels that they are "entitled" to have a say in what ads a site owner uses. However, what we are entitled to is the right to gather together and discuss how we feel about it... and that is exactly what we are all doing.

[acapela]

leaving aside the ethics of gold farming/gold selling, what bugs me the most about banner advertising of any kind (generally sourced, as content, from some third party) is that it can, and often does, contain malware... and the site serving it to the user then becomes a facilitator of that malware. even Blizzard was selling banner space for a while, which was (IMO, as far as i can tell) responsible for a number of things being delivered to my system that i would have preferred to keep out, and/or stuff that crashed IE reliably, etc.

hence, i block all adds using a captive proxy server, and i tend to browse a site with something like Opera or Firefox first (i.e. a browser that does not have a lot of fancy, microsoft-proprietary active control capability), and if the site seems too "flashy", operates as a platform for a lot of advertising, i steer clear of it.

in general, i think the temptation to turn a popular "community" site into a revenue stream needs to be balanced against the safety of the community. and policing the providers of your advertising content can be a full-time job. which is worse, destitution or unwitting redistribution of malware? i don't know.

[Seerah]

The way I see it is that buying (and selling) gold is against WoW's TOS/EULA. Endorsing gold-selling and encouraging people to buy gold is endorsing them to break their contractual agreements and possibly get banned from the game. Not to mention the security threats, moral issues, etc.

[Petrah]

Thank you for sharing this information, Ackis. Thankfully I use BigWigs.

Personally, I don't feel it's right for them to knowingly do this, much less on purpose.

[Fatbeard]

Interesting thread. I wasn't aware of the goings on with DBM. I might need to switch Boss Mods.

[zork]

If you don't want to buy WoW-gold for real cash, just don't buy it. If you don't want them to display WoW-gold advertise, pay their monthly fees so they don't need to advertise. Has nothing to do with morals its a business decision. Business is moral-free as the world economic crisis teached us already. Get real.

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by zork Has nothing to do with morals its a business decision. Business is moral-free as the world economic crisis teached us already. Get real.

While you are entitled to hold an uninformed opinion, you are not entitled to make stuff up and call it a valid argument.

[Benea]

I think everyone needs to chill out. After reading some responses, I had to double check that the topic wasn't about some atrocity of massive proportions on a global scale.

[Ackis]

Updated original post to reflect the apology :P