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05-06-09, 11:52 AM   #1
bknab
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WowMatrix Responds!

Just read this a few mins ago on WoWInsider. Here's the direct link to the "FAQ" as they are calling it on WowMatrix's site.

I had a good laugh...

/popcorn

EDIT: Links to WowMatrix are blocked (not that I blame WoWI) had to take the link out, just follow the link in the WoWInsider post.

Last edited by bknab : 05-06-09 at 11:58 AM.
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05-06-09, 12:04 PM   #2
Vyper
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Mods, can we get the link re-instated?

While I understand blocking links to WoWM, due to various problems with the client, I think that in this case it's a valid resource (not discussing the content, I'll let others take thier shots first).

Also, ideally I think this thread should be locked, and this post added to the existing one (here)
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05-06-09, 12:06 PM   #3
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Be prepaired for another 2000+ post count thread here. Now, in my opinion WM is attempting to appear as martyrs here. The problem with that is that a certain notable and arguably holy figure from about 2000 years ago didn't nail himself to the cross, nor pierce his own side with a Roman sword. He also didn't post a FAQ afterwards filled with blatant lies and attempting to blame everyone else for his problems.

'Nuff said. (no, not really lol)
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05-06-09, 12:28 PM   #4
bknab
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Originally Posted by Vyper View Post
Also, ideally I think this thread should be locked, and this post added to the existing one (here)
That's what I originally had in mind... but after I thought about it, it seemed to me that it warranted a separate thread. That one is already 60 pages and most people have read it I think, so they might just pass it over.

On topic though, as voodoo said it just seems as though they are trying to look like the victim here, and gain some respect back. Personally I think it's appalling.
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05-06-09, 12:34 PM   #5
jader9920
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I think the worst part of all of this is that WOWI has gotten lumped into it.

I think Curse has done a lot of questionable stuff in the past, and there is no reason to think they would stop now. But when WOWI was (basically) forced into the shutdown on that day, they became a part of the whole conspiracy.

Its not fair to WOWI, and I'm sure more wm users will be over today to tell us how terrible we are.
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05-06-09, 12:36 PM   #6
Vyper
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Heh, yeah the whole FAQ was really a joke. I especially liked the way they kept claiming that WoWI and Curse were preventing them from hosting on their own servers. Of course, Curse and WoWI don't own the rights to these addons, and therefore can't grant redistribution rights, but hey, lets not taint a perfectly good argument with blatant facts!
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05-06-09, 12:49 PM   #7
bknab
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I just found it funny that they actually called it a FAQ. The WoWInsider writer sort of pointed this out, but I don't think those are as much questions people are asking, as they are answers WowMatrix whats you to know, as full of libel as they are.
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05-06-09, 12:51 PM   #8
Zyonin
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I have to say that 99% of the commenters on that story are useless wastes of space. All of em WM supports, aka they drank the Kool-Aid. Not only that, they keep swilling down more of the Kool-Aid.

That FAQ reminds me so much of the Fox News Channel. I get FNC via Sky here in Italy and my word, I have never seen so much BS. Same thing with this "FAQ" from WoWMatrix. Sheesh.
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05-06-09, 12:53 PM   #9
Shirik
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Originally Posted by Vyper View Post
Mods, can we get the link re-instated?
Unfortunately there is no way to override the censorship. I'm fairly certain even administrator posts are censored.
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05-06-09, 12:55 PM   #10
bknab
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Originally Posted by Lykofos View Post
I have to say that 99% of the commenters on that story are useless wastes of space. All of em WM supports, aka they drank the Kool-Aid. Not only that, they keep swilling down more of the Kool-Aid.
Yeah, I actually stopped reading the comments after about the third one. I was starting to get angry, and for the sake of my monitor had to close the page. Such is life with a short temper.
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05-06-09, 12:59 PM   #11
Zyonin
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Originally Posted by bknab View Post
Yeah, I actually stopped reading the comments after about the third one. I was starting to get angry, and for the sake of my monitor had to close the page. Such is life with a short temper.
I thought very briefly about posting a comment, however within about 3 milliseconds, I realized that I would get a better (and more enlightened) response by going downstairs and bashing my head on the side of the building. At least the pain would be done and over with quicker.
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05-06-09, 01:16 PM   #12
Gryphon
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I love these:

a) Making regular financial contributions to cover bandwidth usage by our updater.
Obviously, it is very lucrative to leech the data.

Due to the childish behavior of Curse and WoWInterface
That finger pointing FAQ is not childish at all....
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05-06-09, 01:18 PM   #13
Pyrophoric
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While I believe WoWM's side of the story, I also believe that most of the animosity has stemmed from Curse and their greed.

WoWI on the other hand, developing a free application without limits and a premium service simply to remove ads, seems less of an aggressor. They seem like they may have been pushed into some sort of cut off agreement. :/

Personally, I would be willing to bet Curse was the one to bringing up the idea of cutting WoWM off and they coaxed WoWI to go along…which is most likely due to their premium updater being released as the article suggested.

What bothers me most in this whole situation is that we are now back to scavenging multiple sites for the correct updates for our plugins.

I have both the free Curse updater and the older WoWI updater and can say they do not work well together. Not only because neither site is a one stop shop for addons but because even addon information doesn't always match. You could have one plugin on both sites with both being the same version and author but because the addon info differs it will see it as needing an update when switching between updaters.

So, I wish that either all three would band together to provide a one stop shop for addons or at the very least ensure that addon information is exactly the same so if you update with one plugin all the others recognize the update.

Last edited by Pyrophoric : 05-06-09 at 01:31 PM.
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05-06-09, 01:36 PM   #14
Tristanian
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Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post
While I believe WoWM's side of the story, I also believe that most of the animosity has stemmed from Curse and their greed.
13-08-08 Originally posted by Nevcairiel @ WoWAce relevant thread.

WoWAce will in no way change to a business website. All addons hosted here will still be freely available to anyone, you just will not get a mass updater due to bandwidth concerns.

All we actually have to do with Curse it the possibility to directly push releases from WoWAce to Curse. Me and Kaelten even discussed the possibility to add more release pages to that list later on - but all in due time.

No-one will have to pay to get his addons, and no-one will have to pay to host addons here. Any Dev will still be free to do whatever he wants - as long as the principles we established for our community are kept in mind. The only "real" change is that WAU will cease to exist, because it was no longer maintainable with its excessive use of bandwidth, and i perfectly understand that Curse was no longer willing to pay those bandwidth bills.

We tried running Ads, we tried accepting donations, but as it is with Open-Source, people go insane if you add ads to fund yourself, and donating is a word not in their dictionary. We even considered running a "Premium" version of WAU ourselves, but that was out of our scope at the time. So now, after 2 years of trying, we shut down WAU - or rather, Curse shut-down WAU, because they payed for it.

Curse will still be paying the hosting bills for WoWAce, and we should be thankful for it.

Now we can offer a lot new and awesome features to the addon developers, and its all still for free. WoWAce always was and always will be a community from the developers for the developers - and I'm pretty sure Kaelten will make sure it stays that way, and so will I.

Personally, i won't miss WAU and its excessive updating of Alpha versions. It caused more harm then good, if you ask me. Authors now just need to learn to push their releases to Curse, to WoWI, or to whatever page they prefer - like it should've always been.

Obviously we cannot stop you from leaving, but we're trying to do all we can to resolve the issues that might arise. If you have any specific concerns at all, don't hesitate to bring them up with us.
Premium is also mentioned in the aforementioned thread and has been known to most avid addon users for months. That was aprox. 9 months ago and you may notice, Curse was paying for WoWAce for 2 years before that with 0 gains and mostly (if not only) loses, so that people can get their free bacon. Yes, you guessed it, it's the same people that call "Greed ! Greed !" now. Thankfully there are still some of us in the community with a good memory. I won't judge how Curse has elected to run their business (because at the end of the day the reality is, IT IS a business that needs a sustainable model to continue providing the things it provides and all can enjoy), but I cannot deny facts. Yes, the free version of CC may be too restrictive in certain cases, yes some parts of their website could be very much improved (or revamped even), fact remains. It still costs nothing to update an addon. Not a thing, either through the free version of CC or manually. On the other hand, you always have a choice to support the people that are busting their collective...behinds for this community for years, by providing (and paying for) much needed services so that authors can get their stuff out, whatever the name of the website they represent is.
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05-06-09, 01:38 PM   #15
Spectro
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Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post
While I believe WoWM's side of the story, I also believe that most of the animosity has stemmed from Curse and their greed.

WoWI on the other hand, developing a free application without limits and a premium service simply to remove adds, seems less of an aggressor. They seem like they may have been pushed into some sort of cut off agreement. :/

Personally, I would be willing to bet Curse was the one to bringing up the idea of cutting WoWM off and they coaxed WoWI to go along…which is most likely due to their premium updater being released as the article suggested.

What bothers me most in this whole situation is that we are now back to scavenging multiple sites for the correct updates for our plugins.

I have both the free Curse updater and the older WoWI updater and can say they do not work well together. Not only because neither site is a one stop shop for addons but because even addon information doesn't always match. You could have one plugin on both sites with both being the same version and author but because the addon info differs it will see it as needing an update when switching between updaters.

So, I wish that either all three would band together to provide a one stop shop for addons or at the very least ensure that addon information is exactly the same so if you update with one plugin all the others recognize the update.
I wouldn't point the finger at Curse. It has been mentioned that while Curse and Wowinterface are here to serve the community, it costs money and takes a lot of work to do so. Is it not within Curse's right to at least make the money back that they have spent? People don't work for free, you know.

I haven't really been to fond of Curse ever since they dropped the "-gaming.com" from their domain name. I don't like their new layout, forums, or any part of the site, to be honest. I also am not too fond of their updater. It has crashed a lot for me, and it doesn't recognize all of my addons. Also, I can understand a premium version, but they really crippled the updater even further when they took out one-click updating.
But, with all this said, Curse was still, along with Wowinterface, getting the raw deal here. I respect Curse just as much as I do Wowinterface.

I find it amusing how Wowmatrix points the blame, and even more amusing how their supporters follow them so blindly and are so incredibly ignorant.

tl; dr
lol, wowmatrix... you so funny. wowi/curse ftw.
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05-06-09, 02:01 PM   #16
Scalebane
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Wow...so many of them willing to believe WM no matter what proof is shown to them (which links to topics showing their wrong doings were given many times in that topic) .

Its really sad, they scream curse/wowi don't care about the users, but then those users show they don't give a damn about the sites that supply them their addons, and would rather stick with a company who is proven to be in the wrong.

They sit there turning a blind eye because all they care about is themselves. Far as I'm concerned the only greedy ones here are the users who have no respect for the cost and work that go into these sites.
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05-06-09, 02:01 PM   #17
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Whether you love Curse or hate it, you have to respect them as a business. I'm not fond os the website layout but will use their updater. And I won't ***** that it has adds, or is slow either; because it's free. No one has the right to complain when it's free. I still support Curse and WoWI in this. They pay the bills so why should WM get a free ride?

Imagine going to Wal-mart to find some cheap clothes, and you find out later that they have been stealing boxes from Sears and Bay trucks and selling them. Wouldn't Wal-mart lose a whole lot of respect in most people's eyes? Similar scenario.

Due to the childish behavior of Curse and WoWInterface
Those are the kind of petty comments that a professional business generally doesn't make.

I can heer WM's QQ's threw teh interwebz
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05-06-09, 02:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post
most of the animosity has stemmed from Curse and their greed.
Which is why WoWM provide such brilliant tools for the budding author and Curse/WoWI doesn't.

Oh wait.
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05-06-09, 02:09 PM   #19
Pyrophoric
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Originally Posted by Spectro View Post
I wouldn't point the finger at Curse. It has been mentioned that while Curse and Wowinterface are here to serve the community, it costs money and takes a lot of work to do so. Is it not within Curse's right to at least make the money back that they have spent? People don't work for free, you know.

I haven't really been to fond of Curse ever since they dropped the "-gaming.com" from their domain name. I don't like their new layout, forums, or any part of the site, to be honest. I also am not too fond of their updater. It has crashed a lot for me, and it doesn't recognize all of my addons. Also, I can understand a premium version, but they really crippled the updater even further when they took out one-click updating.
But, with all this said, Curse was still, along with Wowinterface, getting the raw deal here. I respect Curse just as much as I do Wowinterface.

I find it amusing how Wowmatrix points the blame, and even more amusing how their supporters follow them so blindly and are so incredibly ignorant.

tl; dr
lol, wowmatrix... you so funny. wowi/curse ftw.
Who said anything about Curse not making money? Sure, make money to pay for hosting the site through ads, not through users. Let the users contribute directly to the authors as it should be.

I am calling out their greed because of their recent thirst (as I see it) for money. Why should I stop myself just because they were a better company in the past?

If I saved a life 2 years ago does that absolve me from taking a life today?

I am only making comments based on the way Curse is portraying themselves right this moment, not the way they have in the past.

Furthermore, why is someone who chooses a side always considered a blind follower and or ignorant?

Forgive us for supporting something that personally made our lives a little easier and spared a moment of our lives so that I could spend it doing something other than playing World of Warcraft/Updating mods.

There is no clear answer to who is right an wrong here. One side says the other is at fault, the other points the finger right back. We don't really have proof either way as to who is to blame.

All I know is I would enjoy another mass updater, free or otherwise, if it would simply auto update and pull from all sites so no background work has to be done.

Either that or as I said above, at least develop universal addon information.
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05-06-09, 02:10 PM   #20
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Glad to see they "responded" in a timely manner.

Wonder how many pieces of paper where wasted while trying to write it


Honestly I find it hard to believe what the WM FAQ (if that's what you want to call it) says is even close to being true.

Oh well ... We already know the truth. I believe WoWI and Curse over a rouge application that had ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in the community until the community that it claimed it was helping revolted against them.

Now they are desperately grabbing at some very short ropes trying to hang on as I'm sure their FREE ad revenue they received from their own ads and the fact they leeched from here and Curse has most likely been severely cut back.

Personally I have no interest in auto updaters. Even the future Minion. I MUCH rather hit this site for almost everything related to addons. I just go to Curse for those few addons that are not hosted or updated here. I like coming here to see what's new (whether it be WoW related news or new addon releases), to actually see what's changed in the addons I use by reading their change logs and actually determining if I really need the latest version. Waste of time downloading an addon cause it fixed a typo.

Last edited by Sepioth : 05-06-09 at 02:12 PM.
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