Quantcast Minion vs Curse Client - WoWInterface
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11-10-10, 09:03 AM   #1
Maziel
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Minion vs Curse Client

So, I have just discovered this little toy called Minion today.

Finally got it up and running.

I have been a long time user of the Curse Client and wished there was a WoWInterface plug in for the Curse Client, but alas, there is not... which has led me here.

Minion dections is all wrong for me.

It is detecting older versions of addons that I have installed.

For example, it's telling me to grab Auctionator 2.6.2 as it is a new update, but I'm running Auctionator 2.6.8

...

Wants me to grab Armory 9.1.19 when I'm using an alpha revision 375...

...

Want me to update to the BaudBag fix I uploaded here whilst the author was away, but the author has returned and is currently maintaining the addon on Curse only.

Things like that.... make me very reluctant to click update when most of what is listed to update is actually a downgrade for me.

Is there no way to check for alpha releases and beta releases of files like the Curse Client?

Is there no way to validate version numbers of the addon with the information within the .toc files or cross checking the information with what is available on Curse.com? eg: Check WoWInterface, Check Curse, find out which is the latest, display that as link to update addon to.

~

Anyhoo, I understand it is in beta. The addon is a nice idea but would have been even nicer if WoW Interface created a plugin for Curse Client instead of attempting to re-invent the wheel that is already turning nicely for most of us.

For now, I'll have to stick with Curse Client. For a couple of reasons really.
1) The files are more to date (alpha and beta release checking abilities) and
2) The GUI seems to be more intuitive for me, being able to check changelogs and descriptions of files etc without even leaving the client nor opening a web browser.

I hope the above is taken as helpful commentary from a user to hopefully aid you in the direction you wish to take Minion. I hope the above isn't taken as negative feedback only. As for Curse integration, I would like to see Minion detect if Curse Client is running and if it is, verify its addon information with that client instead of just telling me an update is available when it is a downgrade.

Thanks for reading, I'll keep tabs on Minion, but for now it doesn't aid my addon updating as I would like it to.



[Edit]
I was reading up on the whole WoWMatrix vs Curse & WoWInterface thing earlier. If the two big guns can stand up again WoWMatrix, why don't the two big guns get together to create their own WoWMatrix Client which searches both sites and displays the latest release available? Just makes sense and we know you both can stand together on things, why not a addon downloader?

I never used WoWMatrix, but it seems like the *idea* was a sound one, but the way they did it without approval was wrong.

Anyhoo, I'm done, bed time for this aussie. 1.20am >_<

Last edited by Maziel : 11-10-10 at 09:20 AM.
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11-10-10, 09:26 AM   #2
Nobgul
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I have noticed that alot of addon authors are not maintaining their addons on multiple sites, when they used to. I would rather see a app that allows the author to upload to the various sites with 1 click rather then a module for the curse client. But this is just my look at it.
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11-10-10, 09:38 AM   #3
Maziel
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Originally Posted by nobgul View Post
I have noticed that alot of addon authors are not maintaining their addons on multiple sites, when they used to. I would rather see a app that allows the author to upload to the various sites with 1 click rather then a module for the curse client. But this is just my look at it.
That too would be a nice option.

Or a co-operation between the two major sites, if author uploads addon to curse, forward to wow-interface for approval and vice versa so both sites have them.

Both sites are great add-on sites, and the community loves you both.
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11-10-10, 09:54 AM   #4
Quokka
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Originally Posted by Maziel View Post
That too would be a nice option.

Or a co-operation between the two major sites, if author uploads addon to curse, forward to wow-interface for approval and vice versa so both sites have them.

Both sites are great add-on sites, and the community loves you both.
Well sorry no, I hate curse. Not for the company but there site!
You can't download without Flash or Javascript enabled.

If you use the Curseclient, It tends to download junk (i.e. 1 small addon Curse gives you a package) And you may only download 1 Addon at the time, can't even que the damm things.

So no I would never upload there. And am more than happy to have all addons from WoW-Interface, and only a minor fraction from curse.

Most off them are ace addons, and I know the reason they are there so that is fine with me.
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11-10-10, 10:29 AM   #5
Petrah
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Originally Posted by Quokka View Post
If you use the Curseclient, It tends to download junk (i.e. 1 small addon Curse gives you a package) And you may only download 1 Addon at the time, can't even que the damm things.

So no I would never upload there. And am more than happy to have all addons from WoW-Interface, and only a minor fraction from curse.

Most off them are ace addons, and I know the reason they are there so that is fine with me.
I've been using the curse client since it was in beta, and it's never once downloaded "junk" onto my pc, nor has it downloaded anything that I didn't ask for or put a check-mark by because it was an option. Of course, this is not a debate over a free or paid account, but I have the pay right now (I didn't use to) and I download as many as I want at a very fast download speed.

Weather an addon is Ace or not is a personal preference because there is nothing wrong with an Ace addon that's been properly written, so that last remark sounded more like an attack than anything else.

I have roughly 10 addons over there, and I don't have any issues with them whatsoever. Thus far out of all the Curse haters that I've seen post on any forum, they haven't posted a single legitimate reason not to like them.
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Last edited by Petrah : 11-11-10 at 03:04 AM.
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11-11-10, 08:46 AM   #6
Maziel
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Originally Posted by Quokka View Post
Well sorry no, I hate curse. Not for the company but there site!
You can't download without Flash or Javascript enabled.

If you use the Curseclient, It tends to download junk (i.e. 1 small addon Curse gives you a package) And you may only download 1 Addon at the time, can't even que the damm things.

So no I would never upload there. And am more than happy to have all addons from WoW-Interface, and only a minor fraction from curse.

Most off them are ace addons, and I know the reason they are there so that is fine with me.

I have never had any junk on my pc from it... and I can download more than 1 addon at a time, set that up in the options.

Strange.

But this thread really isn't about which client you prefer, more of what I have experienced after trying minion, hoping that the info helps WoWInterface better minion, but more so above all else, regardless of which client is better or which client you rather, the ultimate goal as a downloader would be 1 client that checks both sites, compares latest versions, and offers it up to you. That's more the direction I would rather this take... hopefully sticking to positives rather than negatives (if possible). =)
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11-11-10, 09:22 AM   #7
Quokka
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Originally Posted by Petrah View Post
) Weather an addon is Ace or not is a personal preference because there is nothing wrong with an Ace addon that's been properly written, so that last remark sounded more like an attack than anything else.

I have roughly 10 addons over there, and I don't have any issues with them whatsoever. Thus far out of all the Curse haters that I've seen post on any forum, they haven't posted a single legitimate reason not to like them.
I have nothing against ace, I only wanted to state that most off the addons I get at curse are ace, And I have nothing against ace. I use them for quite some time now.

Even before the ace site was in the hands off curse, And lucky they picked it up. Because the ace sites upkeep was to high, even with the donations.

So I don't hate ace nor do I hate Curse, I just dislike the site.
and yes the stuff that came along with a addon was before they cleaned up the site, and the client was in heavy beta.

Checked downloading more than 1 is premium, I'm fine with that.
If only I could que the others.. So I don't have to sit and wait for it to be ready.

But yes It would be nice to have a client, that let me download on both sites.
as long as I can pick what site would be the preferred one
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11-11-10, 10:06 AM   #8
Xubera
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the only junk i guess you could refer to is if you download, lets say Gearscore, it would also download BonusScanner, because I believe gearscore is dependent on it, and either gearscore told the packager to get bonus scanner as well, or the client auto sees the dependency and grabs it too... Also if you uninstall gearscore, it uninstalls bonus scanner as well (which makes me believe that gearscore told the packager to grab bonus scanner as well)

Alas, I too have the paid version because I am an author there as well. And though its not much, Curse also offers a plan that I get a certain cut of the ad revenue based off my downloads, (or something). It's not much, I think i've accrued $30 in the last year and a half, but then again, i dont have more than 10k downloads across all 3 addons on curse and here combined lol.

But I do like wow interface better... it just feels right. And even though wowinterface is hosted through Zam, i dont have to see the other games it hosts, unlike curse who show all its games. But I guess that makes them the portal they want to be
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11-11-10, 11:00 AM   #9
Jooze
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Personally I dislake curse but hating would propably be taking it too far.

My issues with curse are
  • I find the ads are badly placed and heavily interrupt the site usage
  • As previously mentioned, javascript and flash required to download addons. My webbrowser keeps shutting down there while I have flash/javascript on as ESET SS detects infected ads and thank god closes everything before anything hits me. Happens around 2-3 times a month.
  • It seems far to commercial to me, and far to cluttered, most likely because of the portal concept. I want WoW Addons and I don't want to have to read about anything else or have anything else clutter up the space.
  • Curse Client: can only download 1 addon at the time unless I get premium. Feels like they want to squeeze anything they can out of my wallet.
  • Curse Client: Mac OS X Version is extremely unstable and difficult to get it to do anything but crash.
  • Curse Client: I want a client for WoW Addons not a client for every single game contained in the Curse Portal. That's loads of junk filling up my harddrive

The reasons I chose WoWInterface (and Minion) are
  • It feels more like a living and breathing community.
  • Communication with Addon devs and other members is better
  • It reaches out on a more personal level
  • People (like me) who are hobby programmers and don't really know what they're doing get incredibly good help here. Always friendly responses!
  • The selection of Addons is different, while it contains the mainstream ones you can always find new innovative AddOns here, it has an indie dev flare
  • Site layout in general. Not cluttered, simply straightforward and functional
  • Minion: works perfectly on Mac OS X
  • Minion: Green monster! Honestly nothing can beat that!
  • Minion: Easier when switching between different AddOn configurations. Minion adapts at once.

I guess an important issue for me is that I don't like being mainstream.
Curse is more mainstream so it's natural for me to lurk somewhere that's not so crowded. (And before you ask, yes I have my HS bound to Exodar as Alliance and Silvermoon City as Horde. Nice and empty.)

These are obviously my personal opinions. If curse works great for you then go ahead and use it, I don't mind.

The best way to decide is to try both curse client and minion and then make up your mind!
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11-11-10, 01:36 PM   #10
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I personally use neither downloading tool. My site preference is WoWI due to the community more than anything else.

However, whenever guildies ask me about addons and what site to get them from I always offer them both sites as options and let them decide for themselves.

Most of the addons I use personally are on this site, so I always update manually from here first and then pick up stragglers from curse. Some people I know do it the other way round.
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11-12-10, 02:57 AM   #11
Maziel
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Originally Posted by Jooze View Post
Personally I dislake curse but hating would propably be taking it too far...
This thread isn't meant to be a thread of one site vs the other, I apologies if it feels it was meant to be. It was more about the clients each site has.

I agree with many of your points, except the minion client points.

Adverts I don't really have a problem with as I use a webbrowser that filters out all adverts (I need all the bandwidth I can get and filtered out ads before I even began playing Warcraft years ago). I did load up the sites in explorer to check out what you mentioned and yes, I agree. The ads are badly placed.

Javascript and flash I never really have had any issues with. Minion needs java, so don't see the real difference here. I got javascript, flash, java, all that jazz enabled and haven't had any issues.

Another reason I filter ads is as you mentioned, infections. There are tons of adverts out there that hide viruses and trojans in. Hell I even found some in facebook adverts which is all the more reason I decide to pre-filter my web experience (and it makes it faster to browser the web).

I agree, it is far too cluttered and shows tons of information about things I don't want to know about, aka warhammer or etc.

There also seems to be a double standard sometimes where a fan will go to tons of effort to fix up a broken addon, be unable to contact the author, and get denied on curse but accepted on wowinterface and then some other joe blow will rename the code, recolour a skin, upload it with no credit to the original author and curse will accept it. Just a lot of this double standard things going on over there I noted, where here, WoW Interface will respect the authors and help allow fans to maintain stuff for authors whilst the authors are away. The whole community spirit here in wow interface is better.

And trying to upload an addon over on curse is a nightmare to begin compared to here. Choose this license, do that, create this, but then go link that file, then do this, meh O_O! ~ Simplify it for pete's sake. WoW Interface has the right idea. Speedy approval times too compared to curse. But that all said, curse seem to have the latest versions of things, and that's probably due to the alpha and beta upload / downloadble type area which I think is needed here - and something I mentioned in the initial post about minion and it should have.

As for a client for wow, well curse client is, you dont have to set up any other game but wow for it. I don't agree with the junk mentioning for the curse client, but I do have the premium version of it so maybe it is different to your version of it.

Totally agree with what you write about the wowinterface community, I enjoy the community here more and the community here is extremely helpful.

The site is definitely better set out and easier to use, from both a user to an author and uploaded, things just seem to work and roll and fit together better here. My first time trying to upload an addon on Curse I swear to god I spent like three hours looking for an upload button which was eventually found on curseforge... >_< - sure may sound like common knowledge to people who know but a new person, searching curse and not connecting the dots between curse and curseforge... argh. Anyway, I got it now but took me ages the first time. - Compared to WoWInterface which took me like a minute to figure out where it was and what to do.

But all the things you mention about minion I don't agree with. It isn't easier, lacks features, shows old versions compared to what I got installed already (as mentioned in initial post) and no cool green monster will compensate for that lol.

My hope is the devs of the minion will read and get ideas and attempt to improve minion. Still got it installed, still will check it out but for me, it isn't really useable, especially if it is going to install older addons than what i got.

My real hope is that both WoWInterface and Curse get together to create a hybrid addon program that will check both their sites, offer up the latest version and let you install it.

Thanks for all who have read though, and the same for my posts, these are just my opinions based on using the curse client for a long time and now just testing minion out. ...And as you may have guessed from my post, even though I prefer the Curse Client, doesn't mean I prefer the Curse Site itself (no ill will to Curse, they do a great job and I'm sure they are doing their best, but I remember once suggesting something about the layout and felt like I got a new one torn for me, where as if you suggest anything to WoWInterface admins, they don't tear you a new one, they listen and are positive to hearing from their community, hence why I come here first. But go to Curse second to get updated versions >_> lol).
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11-12-10, 07:57 AM   #12
VincentSDSH
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Originally Posted by nobgul View Post
I have noticed that alot of addon authors are not maintaining their addons on multiple sites, when they used to. I would rather see a app that allows the author to upload to the various sites with 1 click rather then a module for the curse client. But this is just my look at it.
Er...no, thanks.

Generally, authors want a lot of exposure for their mods to make the greatest number of people happy -- nothing like seeing jumps in your download numbers to make you smile, the little notes of thanks, or the number of annoyed people when something breaks (sure, 200 people are grumpy but, HEY, 200 people are using your work!).

Hosting a mod on 3 sites is, let's be frank here, not a big deal in-and-of itself. It adds about 5 minutes to the time it takes to release an update since it's the same .zip file, the same update note, and (most of the time) the same markup for any major changes. It's only annoying when you have to do it 3-4 times in a day or two after release to work out kinks -- and that's easily solved, if it's an issue at all, by using a primary site and filling in after you're certain it's stable.

The issue is this: unless you're one of the plethora of unresponsive authors who generally make the user community miserable, you will check frequently (every couple of days at minimum) to see what your users have gotten up to, what problems or questions they have, and respond to them. To do this, you have to visit those sites. If you are visiting those sites to check on the work you host there, hosting it there obviously isn't an issue since you'll spend more time in a month talking to users than you will updating 2 extra sites on release day.

Being able to u/l to 3 sites with 1 click is cute...but no more than cute. This is not why some authors only host on two of the big three, or only on one of them.

Hosting work on a site will generally generate some level of traffic for the site which means you are earning them money. I'm happy to host my work here on WoW Interface because it has a good and responsive staff, software that adequate to the task (even if it is occasionally annoying), and a user community of which I'm happy to be a part.

I refuse to ever host a mod on wowui again, due to the atrocious user-community there, multi-hosting is not a barrier. They have not earned my trust or the traffic hosting my work there might generate for them.

I refuse to host anything on Curse any longer because they kept making maintaining an addon there more and more of a chore, more and more about $$ and less and less about users or authors. I still, regretfully, have to nab a few mods from there and damn if they don't make that an annoying, multi-step problem as well. They have not earned my trust or the traffic hosting my work there might generate for them. The traffic I'd drive to their site may only be .002 cents a year but, damn it, that's .002 cents a year they didn't earn.

I'd rather my fractional pennies of financial impact go to WoW Interface. They put in the effort to earn it at the author and user levels, where they should: they worry about us, we can worry about their bottom line.
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12-29-10, 01:01 PM   #13
FlareLT
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Originally Posted by Maziel View Post
It is detecting older versions of addons that I have installed.
The same for me.

MMOUI Minion suggests an "update" to OLDER version of addon (for example if addon is no longer updated on wowinterface, etc). It should say "unknown version" or "can't update" in such cases.

Anyway, this bug is showstopper, and should be fixed with highest priority. The purpose of client itself is to make addon updates/management easier. And it is not much easier, when you have to review 20 out of 40 addons manually

Originally Posted by Maziel View Post
For now, I'll have to stick with Curse Client.
Same for me. For the reason mentioned above.

BTW, I am still using Curse client v3, and not v4. This is because v4 uses .NET, which basically means it's inefficient and bloated.

And for me it's sad, that new client on market "MMOUI Minion" uses JAVA. I wish it was stand-alone client, probably written in C, and not based on any bloated "platform".

How difficult could it be to accomplish such a simple task like updating a file from internet (check version/date in TOC, get "latest" TOC info using HTTP, download addon using HTTP, replace files on given folder). But that's actually a problem with most of software these days - most important factor for creators usually is how quick software can be implemented, and how easy the maintenance will be. Efficiency, performance, low-resource-usage is usually just ignored ("who cares if app is 0.2mb download and memory footprint, or 20mb?"). But that's why software today is usually as slow to startup and run, as it was 10 years ago (which is ridiculous result having in mind how computer hardware has evolved during that time).

Well, at least JAVA is multi-platform, which makes it less ridiculous (compared to .NET).
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12-29-10, 01:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by FlareLT View Post
How difficult could it be to accomplish such a simple task like updating a file from internet (check version/date in TOC, get "latest" TOC info using HTTP, download addon using HTTP, replace files on given folder).
You'd think it would be simple... until you start writing it. Authors keep different version numbers on different sites, some times forget to update the toc version but update the database version, have multiple toc's, etc. This is why Minion is still in beta, we are trying to figure out a way to get it to more accurately detect the version of an installed addon downloaded from another site. Since this is a community project we are open to help.

Curse has a couple full time programmers on their updater. We can't afford that and rely on the help of others.
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12-29-10, 03:14 PM   #15
jeffy162
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Most of what I've seen posted here seems to be from people that have been using up-daters for quite some time. However, it seems as though no one is aware of one simple feature that is available in both of them. You don't want to have an addon up-dated from somewhere? Right click the addon in the listing, and choose whatever option is available in the menu to ignore that addon. I've found this works quite nicely. Even for addons that are hosted on both Curse.com and WoWInterface.com. Usually, but not always of course, one is more up-to-date than the other and you get to know which is which over time.

I use both the Curse Client and MMOUI Minion, and rarely have the "down-dating" problem. I also like both, but would really like to see Minion become more "polished". However, I can wait. Much in life rarely happens instantaneously.
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12-29-10, 03:17 PM   #16
korgan.nailo
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Its been a long while but I felt like adding my 2 cents here.

I've been checking MMOUI every month or so to see if there is any change or improvement.

The "Version detection" issue has been around for more than a year if I can remember. I'm not saying it is easy, I'm just saying the game uses a .toc file and honestly that should be the base. If the authors don't use it like that even WoW won't detect it properly. Blizzard has a standard, focus on that standard and the authors should follow.

C, Java, who cares? Java allows your devs to write a single code maybe with one or another tweak and have it running on multi-platforms. Want a native client? Sure, create it and maintain it. The client is not a "right", it is a "privilege", remember that.

Another thing people said is that they wanted a client to check several sites. Cool, there you have it, Minion. It was written to support modules. All you have to do is create a Curse module and it will check it. It is on the client's site, check the docs there.

Anyway, what I end up doing due to the version checking issue is:
- Run Curse, update
- Run MMOUI, note the addons it lists for updates
- Manually check each addon listed by MMOUI
- Update those that indeed have a new version
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01-01-11, 10:36 AM   #17
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I do believe *checks*

Yes the latest version of OmniCC is "4.0.waffles10". Tuller named it as such to prove a point with methods of updating : The Version field will take anything a author prints in there.

You can't rely strictly on a numbers based version of checking what the new version is. If the authors don't adhere to a standard of naming the versions any such system would be meaningless.

For example my version numbering system is to version it the same as the current version with the last .x being for bug fixes. So the sound command listing for 3.3.5 is 3.3.5 and 3.3.5.2 for a bug fix.

But not everyone is going to use a logical numbering sequence like that. For example someone could equally as well just one like "Boy , Man , Child , Woman, Girl , Rabbit , Steer , Roast , Apple , Orange , Banana"
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01-01-11, 10:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by VincentSDSH View Post
Generally, authors want a lot of exposure for their mods to make the greatest number of people happy -- nothing like seeing jumps in your download numbers to make you smile, the little notes of thanks, or the number of annoyed people when something breaks (sure, 200 people are grumpy but, HEY, 200 people are using your work!).
And some don't care how many players use their addon at all.

They do it for themselves , their guild and their friends and family.

They upload to Curse & Wowinterface for ease of updating for the members of their above circle.

So they will go for whatever site they find easier to work with.

Other addon authors do it for the fun of coding and upload it for their fellow addon authors to pick through. "Maximum exposure" is about the furtherest thing from their mind.
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01-01-11, 12:24 PM   #19
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Just thought I would add my two cents because I've had the same battle between sites and their updaters...

To begin...
Wowinterace.com - good job on your website. Very clean and very easy to read and follow.

For the reasons I stated above, I would choose wowinterface.com over curse.com in a heartbeat. And I come here quite often search for new addons.

However, curse.com has my money (quarterly payments) because of their curse client. Their curse client is done very very well. Their website, on the other hand, is horrible. Way way to busy. If they could only dumb it down some. But because their client app is done very well in managing my addons, they have my financial support.

If wowinterface.com could make an updater that rivaled curse's updater app, I would gladly send my money to wowinterface.com rather than curse. If money is the issue on development. At least expose the API so that other developers can take a stab a creating a better updater for your website.
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01-01-11, 01:37 PM   #20
Rilgamon
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Originally Posted by Stabler View Post
However, curse.com has my money (quarterly payments) because of their curse client. Their curse client is done very very well.
Luckily taste is different for everyone ... the client (and its developer) was what drove me away from curse And so I love their client as it "forced" me
to come here ... and I really enjoy my time here (even now that its dark around here )

But I confess when I setup addons for my friends and family I recommend
the curse client, too ... but just because I know that version numbering is
too difficult for most ppl out there to read or understand
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WoWInterface » Site Forums » Minion » Archive » Minion vs Curse Client

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