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04-11-12, 01:00 AM   #1
Phanx
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Looking for mouse recommendations

I've been using a basic Microsoft Intellimouse Optical 5-button mouse for the last 10 years, and while it still works great, I'm looking to upgrade. However, I'm having trouble finding a modern mouse that I don't hate, and I'm hoping you guys might have some ideas.

Based on my experience using my own mouse vs using other people's mice, my criteria are:
  1. Back and foward buttons on opposite sides of the mouse.
  2. Symmetrical shape.
    I'm strictly right-handed, but every "ergonomic" mouse shaped for the right hand I've ever used has driven me nuts.
  3. Large size and decent (or adjustable) weight.
    Original Xbox controller was the best, 'nuff said.
  4. At least 5 buttons, but does not have a whole numpad on the side.
    I am not really that excited about 6+ buttons, since apparently Windows doesn't support them as mouse buttons, and the software just fakes it by binding those buttons to infrequently used keys like PageUp/PageDown or running a macro, neither of which can completely replace a mouse button in WoW due to the way it handles clicks vs keypresses... unless you use the Official WoW Gaming Mouse with WoW art all over it and 34904832 buttons on the side, and then Blizzard will go along with the mouse software and agree that they're real mouse buttons.
  5. Not wireless.

I've already tried the Razer Lachesis and the SteelSeries Sensei, and sent them both back.

The SteelSeries was nice and big, with a classic mouse shape and buttons that weren't too stiff but still had good tactile feedback when clicked. On the down side, the side buttons were too far back (I could get the left ones by lifting and folding my thumb, but the right ones were impossible to get without totally repositioning my hand), the mouse wheel was a little stiff, and the slippery chrome finish was too shiny and, well, slippery.

The Razer looked cool but the long, flat shape was actually pretty annoying to use. The side buttons were way too stiff, and the rectangular sides coupled with the top of the mouse being much wider than the bottom meant that it was really hard to reach the right-side buttons (ring/pinky fingers). It also was much lighter than the SteelSeries, though I did like the matte black slightly-rubbery finish better.

Also, the extra buttons on both led me to discover the Windows-only-supports-5-mouse-buttons issue described in #4 above. While the price is not really an issue, I do feel like it's a waste of money to spend $30+ more for extra buttons when I can't fully utilize them.

I might try the SteelSeries Kana, which just has one button on each side. Based on the product photos though, I'm concerned that the side buttons are also going to be too far back.

Any ideas?

Last edited by Phanx : 04-11-12 at 01:03 AM.
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04-11-12, 02:39 AM   #2
Coote
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I've been using a R.A.T. 5 for a while, and it mostly fits criteria. It's not symmetrical at all, though. The weight is adjustable with the 5 and 7 series, and the length is also adjustable. You don't need to re-position your thumb to hit the forward/backward buttons at all, and there's even a side-scroll wheel above them that can also be programmed for use as back/forward (much easier to use this way, even). 5 and 7 are mostly the same, except 7 is more adjustable, and 6400 DPI twin laser vs 5600 DPI laser in the 5. I've found that properly adjusted, it fits your hand much better than any other mouse on the market.

http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/rat5.htm
http://www.cyborggaming.com/prod/rat7.htm


PS: I agree, the original Xbox controller was the best. I have big hands, and the 360 controller is pretty freaking cramped.
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04-11-12, 08:47 AM   #3
semlar
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I've had a logitech g9x for a few years. It's accurate, reliable and fairly customizable, but if you need to palm your mice it's not for you.
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04-11-12, 11:48 AM   #4
p3lim
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I've had 2 Razer Diamondbacks, 2 Razer DeathAdder (one of them 3.5G) and a Razer Mamba. The latter of these models share the same design as far ergonomy goes.

The Diamondback has gone out of production, thus unavailable.

I would not recommend the Mamba, due to the fact the laser is not working well (tracking z-axis makes it sensitive to vibrations), aswell its very expensive (although wireless).

The DeathAdder I would recommend, its very ergonomic, has a nice weigth (148g), and comes in a left-handed version aswell.

Last edited by p3lim : 04-11-12 at 11:58 AM.
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04-11-12, 12:15 PM   #5
Bornabe
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Razor Orochi... it's what you're looking for 100%... it 'CAN' be wireless for those moments on the go and needing a quick mouse, but is 'also' and dominantly used as a wired USB mouse.

Look that one up, I've had mine now for what feels like forever, but it's the best mouse I've ever owned and used, and I've had all of the Razor and Logitech top-rated mice.
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04-11-12, 06:05 PM   #6
Phanx
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Originally Posted by TMcMahon51 View Post
I've been using a R.A.T. 5 for a while, and it mostly fits criteria.
Hmm. I know a guy who has one of those. It doesn't look very comfortable, but next time I see him I'll ask if I can play with it.

Originally Posted by semlar View Post
I've had a logitech g9x for a few years. It's accurate, reliable and fairly customizable, but if you need to palm your mice it's not for you.
The palm of my hand never touches the mouse. I mostly hold the mouse with my fingertips, with the heel of my hand on the mousepad, and occasionally rest the front of my hand (whatever the hand equivalent of the ball of your foot is) on the back of the mouse.

Also, that mouse has the back/forward buttons both on the thumb side, and no buttons on the other side. I use one like that at work, and even for just basic stuff like web browsing I'm always hitting the wrong one, and having to move my thumb to use each button is annoying.

Originally Posted by p3lim View Post
The DeathAdder I would recommend, its very ergonomic, has a nice weigth (148g), and comes in a left-handed version aswell.
Back and forward buttons are on the same side.

Originally Posted by Bornabe View Post
Razor Orochi... it's what you're looking for 100%... it 'CAN' be wireless for those moments on the go and needing a quick mouse, but is 'also' and dominantly used as a wired USB mouse.
Hmm. It looks very small, like a laptop mouse. Or am I looking at the wrong one in the comparion photo on the Razer site?

After looking around at the options, I'm beginning to think I should just stock up on 10-year-old Microsoft Intellimouses and use those forever.
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04-11-12, 06:47 PM   #7
semlar
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I think you've had bad experiences with mice which have poor designs. You shouldn't need to reposition your thumb at all to hit either side button, it should only involve rocking your thumb back and forth.

I was always under the impression that any mice with buttons on the opposing side were simply ambidextrous, but I guess if it feels comfortable to you then you could use them however you want.

I suggest going to a store with display models and finding one with the right feel for you, though. Or maybe try out your friend's mice.
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04-11-12, 08:01 PM   #8
Seerah
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Originally Posted by semlar View Post
You shouldn't need to reposition your thumb at all to hit either side button, it should only involve rocking your thumb back and forth.
Agreed. I have itty-bitty hands, and I can still handle both buttons on the left side. The pad of your thumb presses the forward button, and the curve from the first knuckle of your thumb presses the back button (though, in my case, it's a bit lower and on the inside of my thumb than that, because... well, itty-bitty hands). Have you tried using the buttons this way, rather than reaching the pad of your thumb back to the second button?
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04-11-12, 10:03 PM   #9
Qupe
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http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...mance-mouse-mx

I know you mentioned you dislike mouse designs that are right or left hand specifically and you wanted back/forward buttons on opposite sides but the Logitech MX Revolution is easily the most comfortable mouse I've ever used. I've recommended it time upon time upon time to multiple people and not a single person has expressed anything but their undying love for it.

It's big, it's decently heavy, and it's wireless but has the ability to charge while you're using it; it comes with an Eneloop rechargeable battery and recharges with a USB cord that plugs into the front of the mouse. It also has Logitech's awesome "smooth scrolling" which is a button toggle that lets your mousewheel free spin and scroll mega ultra quickly.

As well as all of the standard mouse options, L/R Up/Down middle mouse button scrolling, Back/Forward buttons and the addition of two more buttons that, by default, are a zoom button (sort of acts like ctrl+mousewheel) and a program swap button (the equivalent of the alt+tab "menu") - both of which are rebindable with the software that comes with the mouse.

Not sure how standard mouse software is now-a-days in non-gaming mice, but SetPoint (Logitech's mouse software) is pretty strong and allows per-application bindings of almost every single mouse button.

My ONLY complaint about this mouse is the fact that it's higher DPI setting is only accessible by binding a mouse button to it and setting the DPI higher than the default. Other than that, I can't imagine myself ever using another mouse.

Perk #12571529182751925 is the fact that it comes with Logitech's AMAAAAAZING warranty; 3 year warranty, that during the time, is replaced without sending your current mouse in and replaced for pretty much any reason. After 3 years, they ask for your current mouse back but the replacement is still free. Not to mention, if your mouse isn't produced anymore they upgrade it to the best possible version of your mouse "type" (ie - gaming mouse, wired standard mouse, wireless gaming, etc...).

If you'd ever consider a R/L mouse design and are unsure hit up a Best Buy/Office Max whatever and give it a go - I love this thing and I "claw" my mouse like you do (I think that's what you described). Pretty much the only part of my hand touching the mouse are my fingers, thumb rests on the lower part of the "thumb area" and the bottom of my palm sits on my mousepad. My hands are also small as hell and all buttons are easily accessible.

It basically feels like an "ambidextrous" mouse design because of where your fingers - as a claw-er - rest on the mouse.
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Last edited by Qupe : 04-11-12 at 10:07 PM.
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04-11-12, 10:28 PM   #10
Wimpface
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Razer Naga! Even though it's completely the opposite of what you specified you wanted.

The only drawback is that it breaks easily and doesn't have a long lifetime. I'm on my second already.
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04-12-12, 06:52 PM   #11
Phanx
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Originally Posted by semlar View Post
I think you've had bad experiences with mice which have poor designs. You shouldn't need to reposition your thumb at all to hit either side button, it should only involve rocking your thumb back and forth.
While this sounds fine in theory, in practice my thumb does not normally lay along the mouse in a way that would make that possible. Only the tip of my thumb touches the mouse, mainly because I hold the mouse slightly on the diagonal with the front turned toward my thumb and the back turned toward my pinky. Only my ring finger has more-than-just-the-tip contact with the mouse, so two buttons would be fine on that side... maybe I should get a left-handed mouse.

Originally Posted by semlar View Post
I was always under the impression that any mice with buttons on the opposing side were simply ambidextrous, but I guess if it feels comfortable to you then you could use them however you want.
They are ambidextrous, but I think most people only use them with one hand or the other (rather than switching off which hand is using the mouse at any given moment), and companies make them primarily as an alternative to making purely left-handed mice. If it works with either hand, left-handed users can use it, but it doesn't exclude right-handed users either, so it appeals to a wider consumer base.

Originally Posted by Seerah View Post
Have you tried using the buttons this way, rather than reaching the pad of your thumb back to the second button?
My mouse at work has both buttons on the same side. I hate it... having my whole thumb touching the mouse feels the same as having my whole palm touhcing the mouse. It feels very awkward and I feel like I have less fine control over the mouse movement with my hand like that.

Originally Posted by semlar View Post
I suggest going to a store with display models and finding one with the right feel for you, though. Or maybe try out your friend's mice.
But it's so far away! And I can't do it on the internet at work!
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04-13-12, 05:46 AM   #12
Othgar
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Just going to throw my .02 out there, I've been using the Steel Series WoW mouse for 2 years now and I love it. It's big, it's fairly heafty, has 14 buttons (that all work in WoW as mouse buttons not Macros or keybinds), and it's not too bad on the eyes with adjustable LED's and all that jazz. A couple of the buttons are slightly out of reach but not horribly so it's responsive and has nice feedback when clicking. I tried the Naga a while back and just couldn't get used to it's size or layout so I returned it and tried the R.A.T. 7 but found it was too uncomfortable. I've used a ton of other standard mice and none have been nearly as good as my WoW mouse. The price tag is a little steep but honestly it's worth every penny.

Again just my .02 and all that.
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04-26-12, 12:12 PM   #13
warmonger2012
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How about a mouse with no keys at all ? A customizable touch Mouse for example, have a look at this ( sorry its german :S ) http://www.techfacts.de/news/hardwar...astenlose-maus
Looks kinda cool !
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04-26-12, 06:14 PM   #14
Phanx
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Originally Posted by Othgar View Post
... Steel Series WoW mouse ... has 14 buttons ...
Too many buttons. Even two on the same side is a bit annoying on my work mouse; I end up hitting the wrong one all the time. That's the main reason I want an "ambidextrous" mouse, because it's symmetrical with one button on either side. 10 buttons or whatever under my thumb would be an absolute disaster.

Originally Posted by warmonger2012 View Post
How about a mouse with no keys at all ?
I saw that, and it does look very cool, but I'm concerned that (a) WoW would not recognize different regions as different "buttons" for the purpose of binding clicks to functions in the game, and (b) I would have a hard time touching/tapping/whatever the correct region for, say, "middle click", the same way I currently have trouble clicking the correct thumb button when the small back/forward buttons are both on the same side of the mouse. If I knew anyone who had one, I'd give it a try, though.

As a followup for TMcMahon51, the guy I knew who had an R.A.T. mouse broke it, so I haven't been able to try it.

Guess I'm going to have to actually find a physical store that has display models for a bunch of gaming mice and actually go there and try them all.
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06-17-12, 01:24 PM   #15
MiRai
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The thread is a little old but, it's still only second on this forum so I'll throw a post in here.

I too, hold the mouse with my fingertips which makes my palm hover over the mouse itself, and I found the R.A.T. mice (actually bought the old R.A.T. 5 and the newest R.A.T. model) difficult to work with because of this. These mice have a weight system that is able to be set up by the user as per their preference. The only problem I found with that is the chassis itself is so light, that when you load enough weights on the back of this mouse, I found myself constantly doing "wheelies" with it in situations with a lot of action. Pulling the mouse up far enough would make the lazer lose its position and cause the pointer on screen to stop moving for a split second until it came down close enough to the surface to pick back up. It is a cool mouse because it's fun to take it apart and reconfigure it to your liking, but because I normally hold my thumb on the mouse with a little pressure to help me move it around, I found the side buttons of the R.A.T. family to be difficult to work with.

I'm surprised that there wasn't a recommendation for the Logitech G700. I moved from a Razer Lachesis to this G700 and I haven't regretted it once. The G700 has an unlockable mouse wheel which I find myself using constantly to scroll through long web pages (usually viewed on a vertical oriented monitor) or when I'm trying to get down to line 2000 in some code quickly. Unlock, spin, and profit.

This mouse is also the only mouse that I know of (not claiming to have used all mice) that has left and right tilt buttons on the mouse wheel. By default the left/right tilt will scroll web pages and the like left and right but, seeing as every button on this mouse can be re-defined (unlike the R.A.T. mice I tried), you can use these buttons in games as well (WoW obviously doesn't interpret left/right tilt as anything in game until you remap it to a keystroke of some sort).

The Logitech software also lets you use different profiles per window/exe. So, for example, I can have the software remap the left/right tilt buttons to something else when the WoW window is in focus so that I can use them in game; however, if I tab out to a web page they are automatically back to being left and right scroll without me having to do anything.

It's a very handy mouse and I have recommended it to many, many people. I urge anyone who is in the market for a new mouse to give this one a try.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-p...ing-mouse-g700

I would suggest looking on other sites for deals on the mouse as you can usually find them.
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06-18-12, 07:25 AM   #16
Kolakhan
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I have a different issue. A large hand and I would like to be able to rest my palm on the mouse rather than drag it around on the mouse pad. Also my "pinky" finger is always "hanging out" to the the side with nothing to grab on to and "goes to sleep" as a result. I know it sounds crazy but I need a very large mouse I can grasp with my whole hand. I have been looking for years and have yet to find one. I would appreciate any suggestions, thanks.
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06-18-12, 11:16 AM   #17
Shini
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@Kolakhan - Sounds to me like you need the SteelSeries Cataclysm edition mouse..
For me, its HUGE, but the hand sits perfectly on it (the WHOLE hand rofl)...

As for the rest, i'd recommend the Razer Naga
While it looks small (and is small, if you have big hands you probably shouldnt go for it..), my hand sits on it perfectly, and its design feels to me like... like its something my hand was just missing all this time

While i agree that the 12 side buttons arent all functional, 10,11,12 aren't that easy to come by and in a millisecond reaction time probably don't fir the bill, the other 9 side buttons are VERY easy to get used to and really make a world of difference...

I switched from a wireless mouse to this one and thought the cord would be an issue and i have to say - I don't notice the cord at all...

So yeah, i would recommend:

Razer Naga (small to medium hand)
SteelSeries Cataclysm (medium to big hand, tends more to the big though :P )

P.S - if your looking @ razer naga's molten core edition, the 2 side buttons just to he left of your left button (top 2 side buttons on the left) are REALLY unused, they are quite hard to get to because of the design of the mouse and how your left finger "sits in" the button...
So between razer MC edition and Elite edition, if you were worried about losing these 2 side buttons - don't be...

P.P.S - Razer have a wow addon for easy button config and binding


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Last edited by Shini : 06-18-12 at 11:19 AM.
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07-12-12, 06:21 PM   #18
kaels
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Originally Posted by MiRai View Post
I'm surprised that there wasn't a recommendation for the Logitech G700. I moved from a Razer Lachesis to this G700 and I haven't regretted it once. The G700 has an unlockable mouse wheel which I find myself using constantly to scroll through long web pages (usually viewed on a vertical oriented monitor) or when I'm trying to get down to line 2000 in some code quickly. Unlock, spin, and profit.
I use the G700 and I think it's The Best Mouse Ever, but it basically doesn't fit any of Phanx's criteria other than weight. It's asymmetrical, it has no buttons on the finger side, it has four buttons on the thumb side, and it's wireless (although one can use it wired as I do, so that one might not be a killer). It's basically wrong for her in every conceivable way.

For anyone looking for a big heavy asymmetrical multi-thumb-button gaming mouse with optional wireless mode, though, I'll reiterate that the G700 is the Best Mouse Ever.
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07-12-12, 10:52 PM   #19
Phanx
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Yeah I've basically just given up the search, and am still using my 10-year-old Microsoft Intellimouse, though I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to be able to do that since the right button is getting pretty worn out and frequently thinks I've released it while I'm still holding it down.
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07-13-12, 12:49 AM   #20
p3lim
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Just with the first requirement most of your options goes out the window
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