Mazzle Updates for 2008

Mortlach · 01-05-08, 06:00 PM

Elcarath has started a groundswell o'graphic support f'r MazzleUI, one that hae resulted in some most vera lovely skins from El and others .(Bravo e brava!) In light o'this effort, as well as previous ones tae keep MazzleUI updated, I'd like t'suggest those o'us wi' beta forum access start planning some testin' o'updates tae th'AddOn base and code so we can be muir ready f'r th'next Mazzle-breakin' update from Blizzard.

Firstly, there be some AddOns, such as Bongos, tha' currently should nay be updated wi'oot an exhoribitant bit o'plannin'. Those AddOns, Ace'd or not, will contain a folder titled .svn. (On MacOS (any unix, in fact) any file/folder prepended by a 'dot' will be invisible, so these "don't update me folders" can't be seen under MacOS. To make or see a .svn folder under OS X, you'll have to use the terminal.)

Then we've three groups o'AddOns: Ace'd, not Ace'd & Mazzle's own.

On Mazzle's, we need permission to alter these from Mazzle. He may tacitly hae giv'n it - Mazzle seemed right pleased in El's skins & excellent Mazzle AddOn patching directions.

On Ace'd AddOns, I suppose most o'us are updatin' wi' an Ace updatin' program. I am very impressed with the interface of jWoWUpdater , which looks similar under Mac OS and Windows. It also can install/update non-Ace AddOns if they are hosted here on wowinterface.com or curse.com; the feature's brand new and needs some polish, but the author is vera active indeed!

And the last group are the manually updated AddOns. I've divvied them up into lists and have DL'd all available updates and will start installing one by one. Many of them will require changes to Mazzlefizz's Mazzification code, some of which we can skip (as the older AddOns work still), but others might become required.

An', finally, might be time t'move some AddOns in an' oot, like Skillet for ATSW....

Who'd like t'throw in an' help wi' this? Are other beta testers still around an' enjoyin' MazzleUI? Especially those "giants in the earth ", such as Mazzlefizz, Meio and Detard.

Let's git this party started!

--Mortie

Dreadlorde · 01-05-08, 06:23 PM

I would be more than happy to make mroe skins/any graphics for mazzle UI. I may be able to provide some support for xml also. I don't use Mazzle UI; but I support everyone who wants to keep it going

.

Kraki · 01-05-08, 09:53 PM

I was not a beta tester, but I'll gladly lend a hand with anything i can.

iljott · 01-06-08, 12:59 AM

I was one of the purple beta testers for Mazzle UI. Unfortunately, I stopped using MazzleUI when it started getting all broken, but the amount of community cooperation on this UI is simply incredible! I still miss some of the things which are included in MazzleUI - especially the automatic button layout (call me lazy!

), which I found to be great.

I'm always tinkering away at my current UI, and experimenting with this and that, so I'm willing to help out with testing for MazzleUI should the need arise.

Good job Mort and good luck!

Gastronome · 01-06-08, 01:38 AM

I was not a beta tester.. but have been using it faithfully ever since its release. Threw the bad times and the good times, and i think we all know what those were. I would be more then happy to test or lend any type of hand that i can to see that MazzleUI gets update to the newer mods.

Elcarath · 01-06-08, 01:10 PM

Nicely stated Mortlach

I am not a code builder or an AddOn creator, especially next to Mazzlefizz, Meio and Detard. I have used MazzleUI for a long time now and just couldn't play without it

However, I am not a beta tester but I will be glad to help anyway I can.

Mortlach · 01-06-08, 02:59 PM

Hoisted from the beta forum: status of non-Ace addons, partial

Legend
Wheat - no expected issues, but verify
Yellow - no idea, so test
Red - expected to not work
DeepSkyBlue - multiple successful tests, Windows and Mac, but without Mazzification!
Teal - works fine, but will likely need Mazzificaiton support
SeaGreen - tested and Mazzified properly!
Woot! We're Blue or better on all mods in this list but for non-update or high risk ones in Red below. Time for Mazzificaiton tests now....

AdvancedTradeSkillWindow066.zip (I've switched to Skillet, and vote the UI should as well.) Install with jWowUpdater - WOWINT ID: 5812
Clique-r92.zip
DBM-3.02b-core-bc-mods.zip
KLHThreatMeter20.5b.zip (probably switch to Omen)
LightHeaded-16-Dec-2007.zip Manual Installtion Required
MCP.zip - The MCP in MazzleUI is Rophy's rMCP, not MCP. It's current - don't update it or you'll get the wrong MCP.
Must nag Rophy to change the name to rMCP....)
MovableBags-v2.3.zip Install with jWowUpdater - WOWINT ID: 6421
Poisoner-2.2.0.zip
ShardAce_v41620300.zip
SimpleDruidBar_700a.zip Install with jWowUpdater - WOWINT ID: 6293
StatusWindow.2.0.beta.2.zip (I see zero reason to update this, but we should be prepped for any upcoming 2.4 oddities, in case)
tekKompare-2.3.0.736.zip Install with jWowUpdater - WOWINT ID: 6837
xcalc205-1196869683.zip Install with jWowUpdater - WOWINT ID: 5281

Test help wi' Mazzification o'th' above (non-Red!) AddOns be most vera appreciated. Och, I've exited WoW muir times taeday than I do in a week o'playin'!

Dreadlorde · 01-06-08, 03:06 PM

Where are these "beta forums" you speak of Mortlach?

Mortlach · 01-06-08, 05:53 PM

You need to be accepted as a beta tester to gain access, so I expect that only Mazzle or Cairenn could do so. I'll also ask Seerah, who is a new WoWI moderator who may be able to grant access with Mazzle/Cairenn's OK on it.

--Mort

Moonsong · 01-08-08, 02:39 PM

I would be glad to help if there is a way for a noob to do so. I have no coding expertise but could try out different things or help write instructions, maybe?

Really like Mazzle and have used it several months now.

bigduke6 · 01-09-08, 02:43 AM

I wish we could get a unified suite. I know there are always problems with versions moving on before testing is finished, but getting Mazzle onto a new system, or setup for a new user is hard. If we want this UI to continue, it needs re-unification. Installing this versions, along with this update, and that update undermines its elegance. I'm not sure if this is the actual point of this thread, but the current path to install sends away users who are tired of the troubleshooting and scares away potential new users who don't have a hope of deciphering the path to success.

The current beta structure for support/testing needs to be revisited if new, willing bodies cannot participate. Folks live with Mazzle and praise it, so let them improve it: hell they are using it anyway.

Maybe MazzleUI needs to be the open source UI.

Dree · 01-09-08, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by bigduke6

I wish we could get a unified suite. I know there are always problems with versions moving on before testing is finished, but getting Mazzle onto a new system, or setup for a new user is hard. If we want this UI to continue, it needs re-unification. Installing this versions, along with this update, and that update undermines its elegance. I'm not sure if this is the actual point of this thread, but the current path to install sends away users who are tired of the troubleshooting and scares away potential new users who don't have a hope of deciphering the path to success.

The current beta structure for support/testing needs to be revisited if new, willing bodies cannot participate. Folks live with Mazzle and praise it, so let them improve it: hell they are using it anyway.

Maybe MazzleUI needs to be the open source UI.

QFE.

I help out in a friend's guild and I'd like to be able to suggest Mazzle as a UI for them to use, since they have on occassion admired my organization and knowledge in game thanks to our beloved UI. But with the hoops one has to jump through to get an installation, or update after a patch, and then to have to remember "don't update this with WAU, once you hit level 58, the burning crusade spells you'll learn don't show up on the button layout so you'll have to switch, do this to disable that "mend pet" button that just showed up out of nowhere, oh that bug doesn't mean anything important..."

Frankly, it's embarrassing and would cause a new user of Mazzle to uninstall and download something else. I know if I hadn't already been a user of MazzleUI prior to patch 2.0, I wouldn't go through the trouble of downloading and troubleshooting now. I'd move on to something more reliable and user-friendly.

joypunk · 01-09-08, 09:42 AM

People sure like to complain about how hard it is to install this UI. Honestly, go install another UI for all your characters and then come back here and complain. Once you install MazzleUI you simply have to use an in-game mechanic to setup your characters. Is there any other UI that does that for you? Not that I'm aware of. With all those other UI's you have to go in an edit WTF files for each and every one of your characters.

Tell me, what's easier to explain to someone or help someone do... edit a million WTF files for each and every character or to go through a list of instructions step by step to install a core package, a couple of patches, and some addons?

Yes, when the original author was actively playing the game, the UI was much easier to work with. The original author put a lot of time and effort into making it that way. He doesn't play the game any more and so those updates have ceased. The community has stepped up and created these patches for us so we can continue to use the UI, just goes to show how loved it is. The original author also wishes that his code not be altered by others, not be reused by others, and not alter the package away from his original set. And you know what, he can do that because he created it. I don't agree with it, but it's not my code so I'll respect his decision.

I will use MazzleUI until it no longer works with the game and the community cannot fix it. I have introduced friends to the UI, pre- and post-2.0, that will do the same thing. Just because the UI used to be simple to install doesn't mean the UI is any less great now that it requires more work.

Bah, I'm ranting now. I don't mean for this post to be attacking anyone or to be offensive in any way. I'm just standing up for Mazzlefizz, the UI, and the great community here (like Mortlach, meio, and DeTard) that strive to continue to improve the UI.

Viciusan · 01-09-08, 09:49 AM

I use mazzle and i'm working on Black Temple skins and Racial themed skins.
I intend to release a pack of skins with the needed tutorials/guides to install them .

I simply love this UI and the way it's ment to handle this game.
I am willing to help annyone who wants help with / on this UI also .
So if you guys ad gals like some help i'm offering.
I am an hardcore Ace'd mods user and i love to work with all kinds of Artwork.

Regards,

Viciusan.

VincentSDSH · 01-09-08, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by joypunk

People sure like to complain about how hard it is to install this UI. Honestly, go install another UI for all your characters and then come back here and complain.

I have, and will, thanks. The critique is a correct one and the problem will only be exacerbated as time and mods move on.

For this mod / suite / ui / thing to reasonably continue, it needs to be repackaged under a single banner again, not "install this...than that up date, the this one, and remember this long list of unfixed bugs" or you can forget a novice ever touching the thing or anyone like myself recommending it again.

If Mazzle isn't going to be involved in development it should be turned over to someone else and they can decide whether to maintain it themselves, open-source it (likely the better option since there seems to be a community willing to support it), or whatever.

Originally Posted by joypunk

Just because the UI used to be simple to install doesn't mean the UI is any less great now that it requires more work

This is where you are dead wrong. It's largest source of "greatness" lied in that it once was easy to install and setup, both for new chars and quite importantly novice mod users. It isn't so any more, and needs to be returned to that state.

joypunk · 01-09-08, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by VincentSDSH

For this mod / suite / ui / thing to reasonably continue, it needs to be repackaged under a single banner again, ...

This is your opinion. You're entitled to it. I disagree. I'm using the UI, with it's multiple packages and patches, just fine right now as are many others. It has survived like this for multiple patches, and can continue to survive for multiple more.

Your definition of what is reasonable is not going to be the same as everyone elses.

Originally Posted by VincentSDSH

This is where you are dead wrong. It's largest source of "greatness" lied in that it once was easy to install and setup, both for new chars and quite importantly novice mod users. It isn't so any more, and needs to be returned to that state.

Again, you're opinion, which you're entitled to. For me, it's largest source of greatness is that it makes the UI for all of my characters nearly identical. I like that cohesiveness. I like that everything is in the same place. And I LOVE that it sets all those positions up for me automatically. The amount of patches I have to install to get it there is irrelevant to me.

Almost everything I said in my post was my opinion. Almost everything you've said in your post is your opinion. We don't agree, it's as simple as that.

Dree · 01-09-08, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by joypunk

People sure like to complain about how hard it is to install this UI. Honestly, go install another UI for all your characters and then come back here and complain. Once you install MazzleUI you simply have to use an in-game mechanic to setup your characters. Is there any other UI that does that for you? Not that I'm aware of. With all those other UI's you have to go in an edit WTF files for each and every one of your characters.

Tell me, what's easier to explain to someone or help someone do... edit a million WTF files for each and every character or to go through a list of instructions step by step to install a core package, a couple of patches, and some addons?

Yes, when the original author was actively playing the game, the UI was much easier to work with. The original author put a lot of time and effort into making it that way. He doesn't play the game any more and so those updates have ceased. The community has stepped up and created these patches for us so we can continue to use the UI, just goes to show how loved it is. The original author also wishes that his code not be altered by others, not be reused by others, and not alter the package away from his original set. And you know what, he can do that because he created it. I don't agree with it, but it's not my code so I'll respect his decision.

I will use MazzleUI until it no longer works with the game and the community cannot fix it. I have introduced friends to the UI, pre- and post-2.0, that will do the same thing. Just because the UI used to be simple to install doesn't mean the UI is any less great now that it requires more work.

Bah, I'm ranting now. I don't mean for this post to be attacking anyone or to be offensive in any way. I'm just standing up for Mazzlefizz, the UI, and the great community here (like Mortlach, meio, and DeTard) that strive to continue to improve the UI.

I'm fairly certain you missed my whole point, unless your rant was completely directed at bigduke6's post only. Yes, I did say that the install process was more complicated than it used to be, however that wasn't my deciding factor in not recommending it to my guildmates. Without someone managing this and "owning" it 100%, the community can only do so much to get it up and running, as is obvious simply by looking at our forums. They're doing a fantastic job so far, but they can only do so much.

That being said, I adore MazzleUI. I have sampled a couple of other popular UIs and have never been as happy with them as I have with Mazzle. (To address your point though about the work involved editing WTF files to install these other UIs, the difference is that this is how those UIs are designed to work. Mazzle was never supposed to be anywhere near as complicated. While MazzleUI is still easier to install than other UIs in that respect, it's not working as designed.) I likely will continue to use it until it no longer has any support whatsoever. However, to say that the community has it working 100% is a false statement. I myself have several errors that I've had to work around that I am sure a properly owned and upkept UI would not have. That is why I haven't recommended Mazzle to my guildmates. Not because it isn't a fabulous UI, not because it's difficult to install, but because of how many things we have to remember/do without in order to use it. The community has really stepped up and made it so that we can continue to use our favorite UI, yes. But it can and should be better.

If its difficult installation were its only problem, I'd be telling everyone about it, regardless.

Perhaps if a fully functional version of BC Spells! or some other button layout for the Burning Crusade expansion was incorporated into the UI core package, I wouldn't hesitate so much. Perhaps if Bongos2 had indisputable compatability with MazzleUI instead of the workarounds we have built/are building ourselves, I would encourage people to download it. Hell, if we even had an updated Known Issues sticky, a FAQ that included our most common workarounds and fixes, and/or a reference list of addons that we should/shouldn't use WAU to update, etc., I'd feel better recommending Mazzle. Right now, our use of Mazzle is largely based on personal opinion, peer experience, and speculation. There shouldn't be so much guesswork and forum hunting in order to figure out how our interface should be running.

My point wasn't entirely about it being more difficult to install than it used to be. That's a minor flaw. My point was that even with the complicated install, it's not working 100% as it should be. I'm going to have to agree with VincentSDSH. It doesn't mean that we don't appreciate MazzleUI as much as you do. We are willing to work with it as it limps through new patches and updates, and use our spellbook for our BC spells that won't drop in our button layouts, or use another button layout significantly inferior to the original Mazzle layout. Just because we admit Mazzle's flaws doesn't mean we don't support it. I would like nothing more than to see Mazzle restored to its full potential in 2008, and in posting here have merely agreed on a suggestion on how to achieve this.

NoxVitae · 01-09-08, 07:19 PM

Agree with everything the previous poster stated, it is rather sad that the UI got this way, i'll admit i don't quite understand the mechanics of how to code for WoW, but would love to have some help with changing that. As for mazzle's legacy if you aren't going to support it, then geez just release the code, you shouldn't make loyal users of it suffer just because you can't be bothered to support it yourself. I imagine the following of MazzleUI would glady pick up where the creator gave up.

sgtsolidus1 · 01-09-08, 09:28 PM

MazzleUI was great at first because the original designer was working on it along with many others including Tigerheart who unfortuanately isnt with us anymore. It will probably never be the same vbecause those original creators dont work on it much anymore.It has become a user created UI which means yes, there will be issues however minor so you will just have to deal. It's only hard to install if you can't follow directions which are a little hard to find at first but that can be easily fixed if the right posts get stickied. Also most problems are usually easily fixed by using WAu and UI Central so i really don't see what problems you see. i agree with most that as long as people use mazzle then it will live on.

bigduke6 · 01-11-08, 12:48 AM

I would like to see Mazzle continue. Sure, I struggle with the updating, but it does not diminish my enjoyment with using the mods and having an easy configuration of all my characters on the fly. The intention of my post was not to complain or bash, it was simply an observation that it would be beneficial to unify the installer again, and make an effort to keep it unified.