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06-04-06, 05:10 PM   #1
mage423
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elementalist mage vs. shadow priest

just wanting to know which would be better for my alt tell pros, cons, and good builds for them.
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06-16-06, 12:16 PM   #2
Reisik
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My vote is for the Elementalist Mage.

Considering Evocation and instant AE are trainable this upcoming patch, there is no reason to waste talents up the arcane tree IMO.

Here is a PvP based Elementalist build that I plan on doing, not set in stone, but something I am considering, please give feedback. I wanted to have all the good burst damage abilities (Blastwave, CoC etc) while at the same time putting some points in stuns and snares (Impact, and Frostbite)

Here's a link, check it out, and let me know what you think!

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...03203102051300
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06-16-06, 12:43 PM   #3
Mazzlefizz
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I would have a hard time giving up POM though. It is so handy.
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06-16-06, 03:26 PM   #4
Reisik
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Originally Posted by Mazzlefizz
I would have a hard time giving up POM though. It is so handy.
I agree with that, I used to be very reliant on the whole idea of PoM Pyroblast etc. for PvP. But I believe that this revision of our talents has brought a new style of PvP to our class, one that, in my opinion, will beat out the traditional Fire/Arc as well as the Frost/Arc spec'd mage.

The ability to spec half Fire/Frost while still being able to achieve Evocation and IAE is amazing for both PvP and PvE. The fact that you can achieve Ice Block to pick insane ammounts of damage, as well as having Blast Wave and other such talents from both trees is just awesome.

I have a few reasons why I am a little hesitant to try an elementalist build:
1) No PoM (As Mazzlefizz stated)
2) No ICS (This is the biggest loss IMO)
3) Difficulty level in using both fire and frost effectively.

So, if you are up for a new challenge, and ready to try and master the best of fire and frost, as well as have two of the best arcane talents at your disposal, I suggest trying an elementalist build next patch, it will be very powerful for both PvP and PvE.

If anyone has any other elementalist builds or non elementalist builds with the redone talents, please link them here so we can discuss!

-Rei
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09-28-06, 10:10 AM   #5
Lilofire
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Something I'm thinking of trying out:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=RZxgGzccuZVA0corzo


has nice things from both worlds, while still allowing u some versatility in what your doing.
Also gives good options for what you want to do in raids, you get the increased dmg from Frostbolts, when fighting Fire immune mobs, and also get the ability to do rolling ignites with Fireball/Scorth
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11-04-08, 11:22 AM   #6
eromrab
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Smile

[EDIT: just noticed this post is over 2 years old... oops!]

Been working on designing my elementalist (fire & frost) mage design... geared for PvP.

Basic Build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZfVcfoh0zZAI0uobuhbd
Key features: Pyroblast, Improved Scorch (main dmg spell), Blast wave (knock back AOE), Icy Veins, Cold Snap, and Ice Barrier.

Frost Strong Build (basic + frost)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZfVc...AI0IobuIbd0dsx
Key features: (same as basic build), Improved water elemental!, and some other stuff.

Fire Strong Build (basic + fire + couple frost)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZfVc...bZAI0uobuhrd0b
Key features: (same as basic build), Combustion, increased damage stuff.


Not sure what I want! haha.

I'm currently (ever since the new trees) a Fire Mage. I was always a Frost Mage before. I'm considering giving up my current build for this... I'm mostly just trading the ability to have instant cast Pyroblasts (which are really nice!) and living bomb (which isn't as wonderful as I thought it'd be, although not horrible... it's won me some PVP battles where I just kept casting it and running from the enemy!!), and some increased damage talents... for better protection and an elemental. :-)

As for the elementalist build above... seems more PvE oriented... I like PvP :-)

[EDIT] Notes: main damage spell is Scorch (hence improved scorch). I don't use fireball usually but with the brain freeze talent I guess I'll cast an instant one every once in a while. Frost is used to control the enemy and protect yourself.

[EDIT] Ok, after reviewing it, I edited it some more. Realized that since I won't be spamming frost spell, the winter's chill was kinda worthless. So I put those points into frozen core for the spell protection. Also, don't really need flame throwing since most of my fighting will be relatively close to take advantage of blastwave, frost nova, cone of cold, etc. With scorch and defensive spells (ice barrier, frost nova, blast wave, water elemental freeze spell) I should be able to stay very mobile.

[EDIT] Combine Major Glyphs: Water Elemental (reduces cooldown 30 more seconds!), Improved Scorch (adds 3 Improved Scorches each hit instead of 1), and either: Evocation (hp & mana regen), Ice Block (if you love your frost novas), or Icy Veins (remove movement and spell casting slowing effects). Minor Glyphs: doesn't really matter. I like the slow fall one, and the frost & fire ward ones look "ok." But none really matter.

Last edited by eromrab : 11-04-08 at 12:47 PM.
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04-23-09, 07:20 PM   #7
Gako
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Elemantalist, all the way, two talents, Presence of Mind, Pyroblast. FYI thats an instacast pyro. I saw that build first time on a 49 twink in a BG. My huntard had NO IDEA wtf hit him. Niether did I. It took me a bit to figure out the spec, and took me a little longer to do it myself. In the arcane tree Arcane Concentration and Arcane Meditation help a ton with this build, for when ever you actually need a second pyro, and Icy veins in frost rounds it all of nicely.

Your tactic is simple, chuck spells until Arcane Concentration Procs, then Prescence, Pyro and hug the body for good measure. So far, this is my favorite way to play a mage.
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05-02-09, 04:39 AM   #8
Republic
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Considering this thread is 3 years old, I'd imagine it's a safe bet that he made a decision

BTW, what's with people calling mages elementalists? We already have those now and they are called shamans. People need to quit giving custom names to talent builds. Blizzard has already named every talent tree. If it's not broken, don't fix it!

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05-02-09, 11:16 AM   #9
Verissi
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Originally Posted by Republic View Post
BTW, what's with people calling mages elementalists? We already have those now and they are called shamans. People need to quit giving custom names to talent builds. Blizzard has already named every talent tree. If it's not broken, don't fix it!
It's a fairly fitting name, though, as the term describes a talent build that dips into both frost and fire (which benefits frostfire bolt the most). Personally, I prefer the term "Frostfire build" since those specs tend to be purposely crafted to boost the effectiveness of the FFB spell.

What Gako was describing wasn't an elementalist/FFB spec, though. I would characterise his description as an arcane/fire spec.
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05-05-09, 03:12 PM   #10
PigtailsofDoom
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I was going to say... I didn't think elementalist builds really existed anymore for mages. Or at the very least, they aren't called that anymore. O.o
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05-17-09, 08:27 AM   #11
us2006027321
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Originally Posted by PigtailsofDoom View Post
I was going to say... I didn't think elementalist builds really existed anymore for mages. Or at the very least, they aren't called that anymore. O.o
Elemental builds do exist for Mages, but with the advent of Frostfire Bolt (aka Jeebus Bolt), they have been renamed by some to Frostfire builds.

On-topic, I'm not so sure you should be doing Frostfire/Elemental for your mage at all. Watching the vids I do, doing the research I do, and watching the raids I do, the chart-topping Mages are all Arcane Mages, and in PvP, you'll find no faster killing Mage than an Arcane Mage.

For raiding, I recommend this build: 56/3/12 Arcane
Major Glyphs: Arcane Missiles, Arcane Blast, and Mage Armor
Minor Glyphs: Arcane Intellect, Slow Fall, and... whatever!
A lot of people like to ask why I skipped putting a point into Slow if I'm spec'd for Torment the Weak. So many other classes put up snaring debuffs that it's not an issue, but if it's necessary that you do it yourself, you can throw out a Jeebus Bolt or pop Mirror Image and get the desired effect, or you can pull a point out of Permafrost and put it into Slow.

For PvP, I recommend this build: 58/10/0 +3 Arcane
Major Glyphs: Evocation, Frost Nova, and Polymorph
Minor Glyphs: Arcane Intellect, Fire Ward, and Frost Ward
Nothing owns arenas and battlegrounds like an unsilenceable Mage with nearly nothing but beefy insta-casts. It's a huge mana dump, but if you're playing the spec right, your opponent is dead by the time being /oom is an issue. And, if that's not the case, be a Rogue. Poly them in place, pop insta-cast Invisiblity, run somewhere to Evocate, and start over. In this spec, I chose to throw the extra three points into Ice Flows for the reduced cool-down on Frost Nova. However, depending on your arena partner(s) and play style, you may want to put one of them into Slow, Focus Magic, and/or Arcane Power. (When I was still doing arenas before Wrath dropped, my 2's partner was a Retadin, and he loved Focus Magic, but I wasn't getting enough out of it, so I spec'd out of it.)

If you have any questions about either build, feel free to ask.

To see what I have to say about Fire, click here.
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05-20-09, 01:08 PM   #12
Verissi
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Frostfire builds are still very viable and are actually better at certain gear levels than arcane-heavy builds, at least for PvE. Personally, I don't raid on my mage very often and just don't have the gear to support an arcane build. I get much more mileage out of both my stats and mana pool size with a frostfire spec. I've tested my FFB spec against the cookie-cutter arcane specs with my current crappy gear; while my "damage per second" was higher, it wasn't sustainable for longer fights. If I had full Naxx gear or better, I could see making the change to fire/arcane, but I would actually reduce my overall damage output by doing so now (confirmed after much testing and spreadsheet work).

PvP-wise, it's still a toss-up between frost and arcane for me. Frost just has so many survivability mechanisms and so much utility that it's hard to pass up some of the deeper talents. I guess it really depends on what you like to do, though. I'm more of a battleground PvP'er (I don't like the Arena system much) and having ice barrier, the water elemental for the frost novas, and a blizzard that snares just come in too handy in places like AV or EotS

Ultimately, I love that top-end mages are doing so well with arcane...I'm just not geared nearly as well as they are () and that's something to consider when recommending specs. What I do like most, though, is that we finally have a few spec choices that are viable instead of only one clear-cut, hands-down winner.

Oh, side note...any rogue that lets a mage dictate the course of the fight is a free kill to begin with
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05-22-09, 06:17 AM   #13
us2006027321
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Originally Posted by Verissi View Post
If I had full Naxx gear or better, I could see making the change to fire/arcane, but I would actually reduce my overall damage output by doing so now (confirmed after much testing and spreadsheet work).
Whether I agree or disagree with you, I repsect any fellow Mage who also has his numbers ready to back up his logic. Not only are spec's gear dependent, but they also depend on a play style. Some Mage's like spamming nukes like they don't have a care in the world, and others have to have something hardcore to do at all times. Whatever the case, a Mage should know what he's doing, why he's doing it, and how he's going to do it, and you just can't do that without doing your math homework. Kudos to you for doing that.

Originally Posted by Verissi View Post
PvP-wise, it's still a toss-up between frost and arcane for me. Frost just has so many survivability mechanisms and so much utility that it's hard to pass up some of the deeper talents. I guess it really depends on what you like to do, though. I'm more of a battleground PvP'er (I don't like the Arena system much) and having ice barrier, the water elemental for the frost novas, and a blizzard that snares just come in too handy in places like AV or EotS
I like watching someone's health dip h*lla-low in 3 or 4 instacasts and then see them panic, and that's why I PvP Arcane. I do happen to be an Arenas nut, though I'm not doing much now that Wrath happened. I'll agree with you that there is no CC like Frost, but Blizz added so much sneaky, crafty survivability into the Arcane tree that a well-spec'd PvP Arcane Mage is a spell-slinging Rogue for all intents and purposes.

Originally Posted by Verissi View Post
Ultimately, I love that top-end mages are doing so well with arcane...I'm just not geared nearly as well as they are () and that's something to consider when recommending specs. What I do like most, though, is that we finally have a few spec choices that are viable instead of only one clear-cut, hands-down winner.
/signed
I love that I can finally have intelligent conversations with all my Mage buddies about what specs work well for PvE and PvP that don't boil down to, "Good raiding is 3/47/11 and good PvP is 17/0/44." I gained a lot of pride in my class when 3.0 and the new Mage trees happened.

Originally Posted by Verissi View Post
Oh, side note...any rogue that lets a mage dictate the course of the fight is a free kill to begin with
Nothing makes a Rogue wet himself like when I pop insta-cast Invisibility and then eat him alive from maximum spell range. That single move is a show-stopper and can change the course of a fight from me losing into me winning.
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05-22-09, 08:18 AM   #14
Verissi
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Originally Posted by us2006027321 View Post
Whatever the case, a Mage should know what he's doing, why he's doing it, and how he's going to do it, and you just can't do that without doing your math homework. Kudos to you for doing that.
I'm usually the "go-to resource" for our guild mages, even though I don't raid as one these days (my DK tanks in Ulduar, and I bring my holy priest or arms warrior to one of the Naxx raids), so I totally agree with you there. Sure, some specs are mathematically superiour at certain gearing levels, but if the player isn't as comfortable with them or has latency problems that prevent the tight timing involved in something like an arcane rotation, they're not going to be able to deliver it. I do sometimes nudge them to at least play with the "better specs" while doing dailies or some quick 5-mans to get some practice, since most learn by doing...and it takes that "must perform NOW" pressure off, but you're absolutely correct that playstyle is quite important as well. Many times, it just comes down to a 1-3% difference in output, which doesn't concern me all that much (as long as they are performing up to their gear level to begin with). I will admit to pushing the long-time frosties towards a better spec if they're interested in raiding, though

I like watching someone's health dip h*lla-low in 3 or 4 instacasts and then see them panic, and that's why I PvP Arcane. I do happen to be an Arenas nut, though I'm not doing much now that Wrath happened. I'll agree with you that there is no CC like Frost, but Blizz added so much sneaky, crafty survivability into the Arcane tree that a well-spec'd PvP Arcane Mage is a spell-slinging Rogue for all intents and purposes.
No lie there. I used to do a ton of world PvP and really loved it, so my job was usually "keep that bunch of folks under control while we focus down the healers". Nothing gets a group of people focused on you (and only you) quite like a frosty chaining blizzards

Nothing makes a Rogue wet himself like when I pop insta-cast Invisibility and then eat him alive from maximum spell range. That single move is a show-stopper and can change the course of a fight from me losing into me winning.
Hehehe, I play my rogue exclusively in PvP, so I have a slightly different perspective. With my knowledge of the various classes (I play all except shaman...and I'm rolling one soon), I can be quite nasty to go against that way. I don't think I'm all that great (I've definitely fought better), but everyone that I know that's faced me in BGs has said how bloody annoying I am A rogue with patience can be a seriously nasty customer. Now if I can only get my rogue friends to wait a few extra seconds instead of immediately going for a kill...and dying to the three guys that were passing by at the time.
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WoWInterface » General Discussion » Class Discussions » elementalist mage vs. shadow priest

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