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08-19-09, 12:37 PM   #1621
us2006027321
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Originally Posted by voodoodad View Post
NECROTHREAD!


please don't hurt me...
Necrothread is what the Undead use to create the Stitched Abominations that guard Undercity.
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08-19-09, 02:19 PM   #1622
voodoodad
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Originally Posted by us2006027321 View Post
Necrothread is what the Undead use to create the Stitched Abominations that guard Undercity.
And an apter (more apt?) description of this thread is not to be found. Thank you us<conglomerationofseeminglyrandomnumbers>
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08-19-09, 08:51 PM   #1623
DonCorneo
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Originally Posted by Gamoin View Post
Finally, i'm registered I've waded through the 23 page discussion and it seems to me it could be summed up to this:

1) People using WM have no right to complain to WOWI/Curse. WM was using their resources in a way that had created problems for the sites and there is no way that can be justified. You can like it or not, it doesn't matter, there is no reason these sites need to let that kind of service operating, or for that matter, any kind of service. If you think about it, it is free (in a sense you don't pay your money, you haven't agreed to Terms of use, etc etc) so if they choose, they can let you download a limited amount of addons. Or maybe just one It would be a suicide but they could do it and there's nothing obligating them no to do it. If there's anyone you can complain to is to WM, it's their service that isn't working, not these 2 sites

2) Counting the number of clicks, saying that the users are lazy etc etc... that doesn't matter. Some of you are proud that you have eg 50+ addons and are able to update them manually. Bravo I say, well done. It doesn't matter and no one cares. People like and use WM because it's simple and fast. You can like it or not, id doesn't matter, but the only way to "fight" WM is either to incorporate them (which i know was tried, but i wanted to mention it since i'm summing everything up ) or to offer a service similar to their (i'd say the same but that would require the sites to work together which is also hard to achieve between the competition). No amount of self righteousness from some of the members on this forum (and not the admins, you are ok ) will change that fact. Everything else is just closing your eyes to reality, which is ok if that's the way you like it... but it doesn't mean or change a thing

Though WoWI may have tried to work something out with WoWM, Curse did not. Curse made demands and threats (this is giving all sides the benefit of doubt, or a grain of truth, as you feel fit to see it).
WoWI was shoved between a rock and a hard place. A decision was made where it was believed to best benefit the gaming community. WoWI did not chose to do this, but had little choice. WoWI would have "tolerated" WoWM until Minion had "matured", but was not allowed this option by Curse. Curse was ready to launch its Premium service and didn't care that WoWI was going to get flamed for not having a updater ready for immediate release. All Curse cared about was that it would not be able to "sell" its Premium service as long as WoWM was still working as it was before being blocked.

Curse and WoWI had every right to do what they did. If WoWM had responded to WoWI, things may have turned out differently.
WoWM has been making some attemps to clean up its act. If you believe a couple of posts, WoWM may have been able to circuvent the current block. If that is true, then by not doing it shows they are trying to be a respectful site/updater.
Everyone gave Curse a chance to clean its act up and it done so nicely. Give WoWM a chance now. And hopefully someone at WoWM reads this and contacts WoWI to see if an agreement can be worked out.
I think if WoWM and WoWI could get together, especially on the developement of Minion, WoWI would be the hands-down best addon site, which it should be just because it has some of the best people working for it.

No matter what, I hope more authors host there addons here. I'm hoping that I'll be able to download all the addons I use from here very, very soon.
Currently I use the Curse Client only to verify version, but haven't had to use it for updating. I have to manually install a few addons for the time being, but if the authors don't wind up hosting on WoWI, then I'll try to find replacements on WoWI.


And as far as the Curse protecting authors, how is setting up a program where some authors may have to pay taxes because of Curse helping the authors? Blizz does not allow authors to charge for their work, yet Curse is going to report them to the "tax man" for making popular addons? If they really cared about the authors Curse would not be looking to dump its tax obligation off onto the authors. Especially since Curse would not even exist if it wasn't for the authors.
If Curse really cared about the authors, they would take whatever salary cuts are necessary to pay those taxes instead of passing the burden onto the authors.
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08-20-09, 12:04 AM   #1624
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== INCOMING WALL OF TEXT *BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP* ============
Don ,

I like how you timed this exactly when 2 possibly 3 of the Wowinterface admin staff are on the way to BlizzCon and hence can not respond as swiftly as I. I'm sorry but I really don't want to stoop to personal attacks you it seems you choose to post this at exactly the right time . Two days before Blizzcon. Something to admire I'm sure.

The thing is Don , every point you've made in this post of yours has been refuted in the large 72 page thread.

I don't if you read it in it's entirety but here we go :

Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
Though WoWI may have tried to work something out with WoWM, Curse did not. Curse made demands and threats (this is giving all sides the benefit of doubt, or a grain of truth, as you feel fit to see it).
No they didn't. They did offer to buy Wowmatrix out. Wowmatrix named a price that was way too expensive. The WM crew did make an offer to cover bandwidth costs that would barely of covered a fraction of their costs. Net , the guy who helps run the Curse servers said that on 3.0 patch day they went through $80,000 worth of bandwidth. He said normally it's around $25,000 - $35,000

http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=16292&page=3
http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=416

Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
WoWI was shoved between a rock and a hard place.
Nope wrong again Don . It was do this at the same time as the other sites or die.

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=298

http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...&postcount=448

IE If they hadn't done it at the same time then they would had all the traffic that WOWM normally incurrs on Curse as well as their own.

Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
If you believe a couple of posts, WoWM may have been able to circuvent the current block. If that is true, then by not doing it shows they are trying to be a respectful site/updater.
Everyone gave Curse a chance to clean its act up and it done so nicely. Give WoWM a chance now. And hopefully someone at WoWM reads this and contacts WoWI to see if an agreement can be worked out.
I think if WoWM and WoWI could get together, especially on the developement of Minion, WoWI would be the hands-down best addon site, which it should be just because it has some of the best people working for it.
They haven't.

They had a wonderful chance of coming to the addon authors and saying "Well guys. We f*** up. What can we do to make it up to you"

They didn't. Not a single addon author I know of has had any emails from the wowmatrix crew. Instead what do they do? They go behind the addon authors backs and start hosting older versions of their addons which are still covered by licenses that allow them free right of distribution.

That's not "cleaning up their act" by any stretch of the imagination.

And about giving them a chance ? THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO. For over a year now. They have been sent email after email after email. DCMA notices have been sent to their provider. Their provider has even been phoned at one point.

And as far as the Curse protecting authors, how is setting up a program where some authors may have to pay taxes because of Curse helping the authors? Blizz does not allow authors to charge for their work, yet Curse is going to report them to the "tax man" for making popular addons?
Do you pay taxes on gift vouchers ?

That's what Curse is giving out isn't it ?

Regardless let's look at that policy again shall we ?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...02301679&sid=1

1) Add-ons must be free of charge.
All add-ons must be distributed free of charge. Developers may not create "premium" versions of add-ons with additional for-pay features, charge money to download an add-on, charge for services related to the add-on, or otherwise require some form of monetary compensation to download or access an add-on.
So. Mr Don Corneo.

Are you personally being charged in any way to download addons from Curse ?

See i'm not. I've used Curse to download addons every day for the last week or so (Patch Day updates lol). I don't pay a single cent to download them. In fact I don't pay anything at all to access their site.

And I'm willing to bet a lot of other people aren't being charged a cent to get access to their addons.

Finally my last point :

Curse Gaming are part of the Official Blizzard Fansite Program (capitals for emphasis) . As part of being on this program they do have certain obligations. So they would be in constant communication with Blizzard over various things. They would havelet Blizzard know they were doing this way before it even come to fruition. The fact that Blizzard aren't complaining about Curse Premium means either they're incompetent with enforcing their own Official Fansites or ....they approve of it.

But I would like to take this last paragraph to thank you for the opportunity to clear some misconceptions up in this post
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Last edited by Bluspacecow : 08-20-09 at 12:10 AM.
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08-20-09, 12:31 AM   #1625
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Someone please, close this thread.
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08-20-09, 12:40 AM   #1626
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Originally Posted by Silenia View Post



Someone please, close this thread.
/agreed

With BlizzCon here and the Admins' attentions distracted, we are just going to more WoWM shills here to troll this thread and spread more BS and FUD. That FUD sticks worse than the dead horse in the quoted post
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08-20-09, 01:39 AM   #1627
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Wait... Do you mean to say that without the mods here, we don't have to behave? We aren't allowed to be mature, well-meaning members of this community and keep ourselves in line while the cats are away?

Sweet!

I call for a dancing banana party in the name of all the fun the mods are having without us!!
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08-20-09, 07:59 AM   #1628
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Originally Posted by us2006027321 View Post
I call for a dancing banana party in the name of all the fun the mods are having without us!!
*Squashes us2006027321's bananas*
You misbehave your way I'll misbehave mine.
*Heads off in search of a small child with candy*
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08-20-09, 08:48 AM   #1629
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/me taps her foot and looks around.

Not all of us are at BlizzCon.
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08-20-09, 08:50 AM   #1630
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/look busy
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08-20-09, 09:02 AM   #1631
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Originally Posted by Seerah View Post
/me taps her foot and looks around.

Not all of us are at BlizzCon.
*jumps out of seat*
*hides something behind his back*
*trys to look innocent*

*FAILS*

"sigh"

*hands Seerah the booze*

You win
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08-20-09, 02:36 PM   #1632
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Originally Posted by Bluspacecow View Post
== INCOMING WALL OF TEXT *BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP* ============
Don ,
OK, I was going to do like yu did, but decide it as not the best way.

What my problem is that everyone is taking Curse's word as fact without investigating it. Curse has done all of what they accuse WM of. They don't do most of it any more, but it is a case of "the kettle calling the pot black".
Curse hids behind "we are a private company and don't have to report our finances to anyone" instead of being 100% honest in what they are doing. Because of a Venture Capital award they need to turn a real profit, which is why Venture Capital companies invest in other companies.
And unlike those working for WoWI and other sites, Curse's top employees income comes from Curse.com and not working real jobs and doing addon hosting on the side. That they made Curse into a job that pays their bills is rather cool, and I give them much credit for that, but the way the do it is really unethical. They are more like AIG CEOs then the hardworking desk jockeys. Curse is no longer trying to provide a resource for helping the gaming community but rather in the business of trying to profit from the gaming community.
Whereas other sites that host addons look to pay for the costs of doing it, Curse is looking to profit in any way possible from providing the resource.

As for the "Curse Rewards Program", I think this says it all: "Section 6041(a) of the Internal Revenue Code, and associated regulations and rulings, generally requires us to file an information return for payments made to each participant in the Curse Rewards Program who receives payments of $600 or more in any tax year. This reporting requirement applies to redemptions of Points for cash and to redemptions of Points other than for cash, including redemptions for gift cards and the like. In order to satisfy our reporting obligations required by the IRS, we have to obtain an IRS Form W-9 from each Curse Rewards Program participant to which this rule applies."

Sec. 6041. Information at source

(a) Payments of $600 or more
All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in
the course of such trade or business to another person, of rent,
salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations,
emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and
income (other than payments to which section 6042(a)(1),
6044(a)(1), 6047(e), 6049(a), or 6050N(a) applies, and other than
payments with respect to which a statement is required under the
authority of section 6042(a)(2), 6044(a)(2), or 6045), or $600 or
more in any taxable year, or, in the case of such payments made by
the United States, the officers or employees of the United States
having information as to such payments and required to make returns
in regard thereto by the regulations hereinafter provided for,
shall render a true and accurate return to the Secretary, under
such regulations and in such form and manner and to such extent as
may be prescribed by the Secretary, setting forth the amount of
such gains, profits, and income, and the name and address of the
recipient of such payment.


I get more rewards than that from Sprint and Best Buy and they don't report me.
Curse is using this a way to defer taxes Curse has to pay for its income. Curse is not obligated to do this since the authors are not employed by Curse in any way that meet the requirements of this section.


I'm sure the more you "dig into" Curse, the more you'll find that Curse is no longer in the business of helping the gaming community, but it is definately in the business of turning a real profit.


I'm just saying stop taking Curse at face value and start researching them. Kudos for them in creating a means of income where they don't need to work a real job, but shame on them for lying to us about what they are doing.
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08-20-09, 02:59 PM   #1633
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Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
OK, I was going to do like yu did, but decide it as not the best way.

If you have an issue with Curse, then take it to their forums.
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08-20-09, 03:19 PM   #1634
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Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
I get more rewards than that from Sprint and Best Buy and they don't report me.
Curse is using this a way to defer taxes Curse has to pay for its income. Curse is not obligated to do this since the authors are not employed by Curse in any way that meet the requirements of this section.
Those rewards are not monetary payment, they are essentially coupons and need not be reported.
Legally Curse is required to report it's monetary payments of over $600, and they are taxable as income (because they are income), as are (technically) any donations authors receive from their donate button.
Further more, reporting those payments does not in anyway reduce the taxes Curse has to pay on it's own profits.

In other words, authors have to pay taxes on their income. What else is new?
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08-20-09, 03:40 PM   #1635
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Let me put it this way then: when actual facts are presented that counter what Curse says, why do some people (including authors and other sites) still support them and believe the other information is not true? Is it solely because of the "friendships" that have been made over the years? I'd like to know since it helps in understanding why people will "attack" me even with facts presented that back up what I post.
(I had a friend for over a decade that broke a Law in a way I couldn't condone and reported him to the proper authorities. It was really hard to do, but what his actions outweighed any friendship we had until then. I'm not saying is Curse is doing anything illegal, but that friendship should not factor in when judging certain actions.)

I side with WoWI's actions because it was explained to me and I can not find reason to doubt what I was told.

It just amazes me that everything someone from Curse says is posted on the site without thought of whether it is true or not, yet when someone like me presents actual facts, we are flamed or treated like a plague.
As stated for another poster, I gain nothing for lying. I don't lose profit or gain it. I have no reputation to lose so don't need to defend it. I provide links to reputable sites, or information that can be found via the internet by searching, to show how I arrived at my view of the facts.






I have brought it to Curse's forums just to have the posts with factual information links deleted. These links include reputable sites reporting Curse's income and such. Basically anything that shows Curse has not told the truth is deleted.
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08-20-09, 04:33 PM   #1636
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Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
Let me put it this way then: when actual facts are presented that counter what Curse says, why do some people (including authors and other sites) still support them and believe the other information is not true?


Easy. I don't care.

Nothing new is being said. Nothing good is going to come from dredging it all up. Nothing is going to change. When you are able to deal with those simple facts, perhaps you will be able to finally sleep at night and not focus all of your energy on this dead issue.
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08-20-09, 04:36 PM   #1637
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Very simple solution here and one that's been given repeatedly. If you don't like a site (Curse in this instance) then don't visit that site. Don't come to another site and start flaming Curse, because I don't believe there's anyone here who cares.

And I'm not "attacking" or "flaming" you.

I'm just saying NOBODY CARES!

You've got facts to back up your reasons for not liking Curse?

GREAT!

GOOD FOR YOU!

But here, NOBODY CARES!
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08-20-09, 05:13 PM   #1638
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Originally Posted by DonCorneo View Post
{well-worded text walls of critting doom}


Obivous troll is obvious. And now, back to the dancing bananas!

*tries to set up all his bananas, but cries because this is all that's left*
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08-20-09, 05:15 PM   #1639
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Dude! You ATE the bananas??? For SHAME!
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08-20-09, 05:18 PM   #1640
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The IRS sucks, I hate it... so should you.

DO NOT ARGUE WITH ME!!one11!





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WoWInterface » Site Forums » News » WoWInterface and Curse working together to help protect authors and other site-users

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