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11-25-14, 06:38 AM   #1
strickland
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VEM - not to download

Whats the issue with VEM if I may ask, I'm trying to download it, and it says something along these lines "Cannot be downloaded due to it being reviewed"

Anyway, I'm asking if there is a major issue with it in terms of virus etc, so then I would delete the older version too, thanks.
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11-25-14, 07:03 AM   #2
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Most likely it's a simple error in the structure of the ZIP file -- it's missing a containing folder, has too many containing folders, includes operating system files like desktop.ini or .DS_Store, etc.

Viruses would be caught by the automated scan before the file ever got that far. If you are using an older version of the addon downloaded from WoWInterface, it does not have a "virus" and you don't need to delete it.
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11-25-14, 07:20 AM   #3
strickland
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Ah okay, well because I also seen it as locked in curse which raise my suspension even further.
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11-25-14, 10:53 AM   #4
Tntdruid
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Sorry, DBM has been made as a non-open-source project. Thus VEM can no longer do what we do before.
Well, the good news is DBM plans to have better callbacks which can be used by other addons like VEM to become a plugin of DBM.
Let's just hope that day comes sooner than late.
From https://github.com/henryj/Voice-Encounter-Mods
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11-25-14, 01:39 PM   #5
Nynaeve
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Originally Posted by Tntdruid View Post
Sorry, DBM has been made as a non-open-source project. Thus VEM can no longer do what we do before.
Well, the good news is DBM plans to have better callbacks which can be used by other addons like VEM to become a plugin of DBM.
Let's just hope that day comes sooner than late.
From https://github.com/henryj/Voice-Encounter-Mods
To translate that into more understandable terms:

DBM was open source, this meant that people could take the work, transform it into something else, and redistribute ithe transformed work to the masses.

VEM (legally) took advantage of this to make their work making a Voiced version of DBM (plus some other added features).

MysticalOS (?) decided he (?) didn't like that he was working so very hard for so very long, only to have someone take his work and "make it better". (Which is completely understandable.)

This led to MysticalOS (?) deciding to change the project to a non-open-source type, meaning people can't take the work, transform it, and distribute that modified work anymore.

As for the download being disabled, it could be because the new version of DBM has changed to a non open-source, and they're preventing issues, or it could be that VEM had taken the new version and transformed it, not realizing the license had changed.


Either way, the end result is that MysticalOS (?) would like for people to (eventually) create plug-ins for DBM to do such things as Voice and arrows, instead of legally ninjaing/piggybacking on his(?) hard work.

I don't know how long it will be before DBM is ready for such plug-ins and has improved their callbacks, but I do know that it will be a sad time for many who are waiting.
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11-25-14, 03:54 PM   #6
Banknorris
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First I would like to say I didn't ever use VEM so I could care less about this, however I am curious: all addons are free, all addon are in fact "open-source" in a way (I mean you have total access to view the source code). If VEM dude breaks the license what will happen? DBM would sue VEM (how much money would DBM willing to pay a lawyer)? How much would VEM had to pay DBM for breaking a free program license? Obviously I could do the same analysis from VEM pov, it the addons are free why break a license to make free stuff?

I don't have any intention of breaking any license neither I think they should be ignored, just curious how this works in the real world or if it is just an illusion of property. Imo unless you can make money or put people in jail because they broke your license on a free program then it is just a joke to put any license to begin with.

I for example, live in Brazil and I can't see FBI coming after me because I broke an addon license.

Last edited by Banknorris : 11-25-14 at 04:25 PM.
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11-25-14, 08:04 PM   #7
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Addons are free as in "free speech", not as in "free beer". You can read a book, too, doesn't mean you can plagiarize it.
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11-25-14, 08:16 PM   #8
Phanx
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Originally Posted by Nynaeve View Post
MysticalOS (?) decided he (?) didn't like that he was working so very hard for so very long, only to have someone take his work and "make it better". (Which is completely understandable.)
If that was the real motivation behind the license change, then the author(s) must have been pretty ... well, clueless, is the most polite word I can come up with, to choose an open source license in the first place, since the whole point of an open source license is to explicitly allow anyone and everyone "take [your] work and make it better".

It seems more likely the change was motivated by the regular appearance of leech sites who don't give a rat's ass about what authors want, and just want to make money redistributing other people's work on their own ad-infested website. I personally had a few addons in the public domain, since they were small and based largely on Blizzard's UI code or the work of other addon authors, but after the latest round of hassles with SolidIce, future versions of those addons will be covered by my standard license as well. Additionally, on Curse I've switched all my addons to be labeled as just "All Rights Reserved" since one of the many problems with SolidIce was that their scraping bot just grabbed everything that wasn't labeled "All Rights Reserved" since they apparently couldn't conceive of any other license that didn't allow for redistribution.

Originally Posted by Banknorris View Post
I for example, live in Brazil and I can't see FBI coming after me because I broke an addon license.
They wouldn't, but legitimate addon sites like Curse and WoWInterface would not allow you to distribute your "illegal" addon on their network, and if you chose to distribute it on your own website instead, most web hosts will remove copyright-infringing content at the request of the copyright holder (in this case, the original author of the addon whose license you are violating).
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11-25-14, 09:33 PM   #9
Banknorris
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Originally Posted by Phanx View Post
They wouldn't, but legitimate addon sites like Curse and WoWInterface would not allow you to distribute your "illegal" addon on their network, and if you chose to distribute it on your own website instead, most web hosts will remove copyright-infringing content at the request of the copyright holder (in this case, the original author of the addon whose license you are violating).
Well looks like the system works after all. Thanks for the explanation.
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11-25-14, 10:59 PM   #10
Nynaeve
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Originally Posted by Phanx View Post
If that was the real motivation behind the license change, then the author(s) must have been pretty ... well, clueless, is the most polite word I can come up with, to choose an open source license in the first place, since the whole point of an open source license is to explicitly allow anyone and everyone "take [your] work and make it better".

It seems more likely the change was motivated by the regular appearance of leech sites who don't give a rat's ass about what authors want, and just want to make money redistributing other people's work on their own ad-infested website. I personally had a few addons in the public domain, since they were small and based largely on Blizzard's UI code or the work of other addon authors, but after the latest round of hassles with SolidIce, future versions of those addons will be covered by my standard license as well. Additionally, on Curse I've switched all my addons to be labeled as just "All Rights Reserved" since one of the many problems with SolidIce was that their scraping bot just grabbed everything that wasn't labeled "All Rights Reserved" since they apparently couldn't conceive of any other license that didn't allow for redistribution.
I would have thought the same, as that's where my mind first jumped, when I read the license had changed, especially considering the most recent round of addon site crazy, but a quick read one of his (?) comments disabused me of that notion.

It's certainly a strange time to have decided to change it, this late in its lifetime. The previous license was very specific and detailed, but allowed for so many possibilities.

I suppose it's a good thing for me that I had just thrown out my tank addon in progress for the 762nd time, as maybe it would function well as a DBM plugin if/when that functionality is included.

Regardless, this is all a little sudden and perhaps awkward, and I do hope things get situated quickly.
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11-25-14, 11:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Nynaeve View Post
... a quick read one of his (?) comments disabused me of that notion. It's certainly a strange time to have decided to change it, this late in its lifetime.
It certainly is strange. I can't even imagine what kind of idiotic thought process leads someone to explicitly license their work under terms that allow people to fork it, and then years later suddenly get upset that someone has been doing just that. Nobody is forcing them to spend "16 hours a day" working on DBM, as they claimed in that comment, and the existence of VEM (or lack thereof) has absolutely no effect on the amount of time it takes to maintain DBM.

The only non-ridiculous motivation I can come up with is that users choosing VEM over DBM reduces the amount of money the author makes through the Curse Author Rewards Program. However, based on the numbers I can see (the whole VEM page on Curse is down, so I'm using WoWI numbers only) that reduction is so small as to be totally irrelevant (about 312 dl/month for VEM versus over 22,000 dl/month for DBM) so the whole thing really does seem like a knee-jerk emotional reaction with no logic behind it.

The author(s) of VEM might consider reworking their addon as a BigWigs plugin, since BigWigs already supports plugins with a sensible callback system.
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11-26-14, 07:30 AM   #12
Banknorris
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Honestly, I would have done the same. If nothing was done DBM would ending up as a VEM library/API rofl.
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11-26-14, 08:55 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Phanx View Post
It certainly is strange. I can't even imagine what kind of idiotic thought process leads someone to explicitly license their work under terms that allow people to fork it, and then years later suddenly get upset that someone has been doing just that. Nobody is forcing them to spend "16 hours a day" working on DBM, as they claimed in that comment, and the existence of VEM (or lack thereof) has absolutely no effect on the amount of time it takes to maintain DBM.

The only non-ridiculous motivation I can come up with is that users choosing VEM over DBM reduces the amount of money the author makes through the Curse Author Rewards Program. However, based on the numbers I can see (the whole VEM page on Curse is down, so I'm using WoWI numbers only) that reduction is so small as to be totally irrelevant (about 312 dl/month for VEM versus over 22,000 dl/month for DBM) so the whole thing really does seem like a knee-jerk emotional reaction with no logic behind it.

The author(s) of VEM might consider reworking their addon as a BigWigs plugin, since BigWigs already supports plugins with a sensible callback system.
The original author and owner of DBM, Tandanu, licensed DBM and its modules under the Creative Commons license. MysticalOS, having taken over maintenance of DBM and its modules, decided that the new modules for WoD would be All Rights Reserved. This does not change the license for the original content at all.
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11-26-14, 10:42 AM   #14
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I can't see anything ridiculous on change one's mind - not matter how long an addon has been public available or what the previous license was. It's the authors decision. Period.

The VEM author is free to invest his/her own time in further developing the forked version.

Personally I would take a different road. I would add the VEM stuff/features to DBM instead of changing the license.
But again, it's his/her decision.

[e]
I really would like to know what the rake on Curse rewards looks like. I always thought it couldn't be more than a few dollars - even with big download numbers.

Last edited by Duugu : 11-26-14 at 10:49 AM.
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11-26-14, 03:25 PM   #15
Petrah
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Originally Posted by Duugu View Post

[e]
I really would like to know what the rake on Curse rewards looks like. I always thought it couldn't be more than a few dollars - even with big download numbers.
It pays enough to completely pay for Christmas presents for both of my kids and boyfriend every year, and I generally have plenty during the rest of the year to get them birthday presents as well. The second best part of it all is I do all my shopping on Amazon, and with Amazon Prime it's free two day shipping.


/hugs Curse
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11-26-14, 05:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Petrah View Post
It pays enough to completely pay for Christmas presents for both of my kids and boyfriend every year, and I generally have plenty during the rest of the year to get them birthday presents as well.
What do we talk of? A new boat or a pair of socks? ;D
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11-27-14, 03:05 AM   #17
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I have no popular addon. Still it is a few 10Euro coupons over the year. Pays enough for my zam subscription ;-)
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11-27-14, 03:18 AM   #18
Torhal
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Originally Posted by Duugu View Post
I really would like to know what the rake on Curse rewards looks like. I always thought it couldn't be more than a few dollars - even with big download numbers.
Can't/won't give exact numbers, but some folks earn the points equivalent of $100 and above a month. In a few cases, multiples of that.
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11-27-14, 07:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Torhal View Post
Can't/won't give exact numbers, but some folks earn the points equivalent of $100 and above a month. In a few cases, multiples of that.
Thanks. I'm just realizing that 3m downloads must be an equivalent of ~2k. Much more then I thought. oO
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