NU Innovations in Spell Management - Page 2

Vis · 06-23-09, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rhamses

http://my.curse.com/members/rhamses/...slideshow.aspx

Above is the link to some more screenshots.

I have used NUI and created new bars with macaroon to demonstrate how I see the bars changing. Button placement is not optimized and I hve not implemented the buff system

Look at the 2 bars just below the prime bar (the really long bar)

In screenshot 1 I have nothing targeted. There is nothing on the left bar
the right bar has non-combat actions.

In screen 2 I targeted a friendly unit, Note the change in the left bar. Things that I can do to a friendly target.

In screen 3 I target a mob I can harm and my dots show up in the left. Since I am still not in combat the right bar remains the same.

In screen 4 I am now in combat targeting a hostile. Left remains the same, but non-combat options are gone.

Rhamses

Ah, okay. So you are really looking for nUI to have fully customizeable bars that swap the full bar on diff types of actions namely help/harm/out of combat. Pretty much like a Stealth bar for Rogues or Shape Shift bar for Druids.

I thought you were describing more along the lines of place a spell on a bar, it stays there and just hides/alpha change/ etc based on cooldown and whther or not it's on a mob.

spiel2001 · 06-23-09, 06:32 PM

He's really talking about both things... the fade part I can do right away... the other part is going to take more time, but was already planned.

Rhamses · 06-24-09, 04:32 AM

A couple of quick screenshots showing some long term buffs.

Look at the bar to the right of the target in the two newest shots.

The first shows I am missing my fel armor buff so the icon is there.
Then there is food (Shown) that will give me a well fed buff (not shown)
Then there is a spell(Shown) to apply a weapon enchant. (not shown)
http://my.curse.com/members/rhamses/...62415.jpg.aspx

in the next screen shot, I am buffed
Fel Armor spell disappears
The food disappears and is replaced by the well fed buff
The spellstone is replaced by my weapon enchant icon.
http://my.curse.com/members/rhamses/...62511.jpg.aspx

Rhamses

spiel2001 · 06-24-09, 04:36 AM

I might suggest you consider uploading your screen shots as attachments to your messages right here... when you're entering a message, scroll down the page a bit and there's a "manage attachments" button you can click to upload your screen shots with into the message.

I find the slideshow on Curse to be impossible to see because the images are so small and low quality. It's making it very difficult to pick up on what you're trying to show.

In the meantime, I do expect to have the button fade feature in this weekend's update. It's going to take longer to implement the help/harm logic though and I have a couple of other higher priority items I need to knock out before I tackle that piece of the implementation.

Rhamses · 06-24-09, 06:02 AM

Ok, didn't notice it. Will append this evening.

Rhamses

Rhamses · 06-24-09, 09:41 AM

If we step back and I ask you “why” you are doing what you are doing about seven times to really open your mind I will lead you to the concept of

Stimulus / Response

The game has presented an event (Stimulus) and then the player does something to react (Response). If we ignore “Nothing” and “Move” we are pretty much left with cast a spell or use an item (here after referred to as /use). Since World of Warcraft (WOW) wants the player to play the game and not the computer, the WOW does not allow the automated clicking of buttons. The buttons must be clicked by the player. It is also my understanding that because of “TAINT” the interface cannot create new buttons in response to an event in combat. But, the visibility of the button CAN be modified. We are familiar with Cool downs, count downs etc.

Most UIs I have seen are confusing as hell. I am over 40 and not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have also played and stepped away from the game several times. There are so many possible things to do and players have a button for each one of those /use. Worse, there can be macros that make combinations. So, the UI has all these possible actions and I have to remember where each one of them is located because the game moves fast. It is also important to remember that WOW rewards those that can conduct the better response more quickly. Tank and Spank is a has been. All character classes have more to do and more complex rotations. So, what is an old dog like me to do? Simplify the interface! Below I will describe the logic and thought process for 4 different bars.

Stimulus / Response

WOWza! / /use

We know there are limitations in some of the /use. For example some require a target. If nothing is targeted, it is impossible to /use

/use

Does /use require a Target? Yes or No.

Now, remember. Not every spell requires a target. But, some do. So, we can place those that do not require a target and put them away in a bin that we can come back to later. This leaves us with /use that require a Target.

So let us dissect Targeting.

We can easily split targets between Friends [Help] and Foe [Harm]. It is not possible to cast a spell that requires [Target = Help] on a [Target = Harm]. There is a third possibility where target is neither [Help] nor [Harm] , but WOW handles that with the GEAR pointer so we do not have to worry about it. So, again we have a binary that we can use to our advantage; [Help] and [Harm]. So let us leverage that! We can create a bar that is visible when [Target = Help] and another when [Target = Harm]. Let us call this the Target Bar of the UI. We will have, as far as the user is concerned, one bar that swaps between three states. No target (in Most cases this will probably be empty), Friend and Foe. This will reduce the number of buttons visible at any moment in time. It reduces clutter and saves Screen Space.

Another strong distinction is between combat and non-combat. There are /use that cannot be completed when in combat. For example, /use Hearthstone cannot be conducted while in combat. So, we can use the same type of thinking as above to create a [Combat] and [No Combat] Off the top of my head I cannot think of /use that requires combat. But, I can thinking of /use that I only want to cast in combat. Soulshatter is a locks instant agro dump. There is no point in using it out of combat. There are some /use that one may want to cast most of the time in [Combat], but occasionally before it starts. Remember, a /use can be in multiple buttons.

We leverage the above to create two spaces for bars. One called Target Bar and the other Combat Bar. These will hot swap in response to a targeting event change or a combat state change.

It may take a while to figure out what I am talking about. But, once it is “live” it is cake. Players will take to it like an otter to water. If this does not make sense right away that is ok. It may take a little thinking. But, until it makes sense, please do not go to my [Buff] [DeBuff] [CoolDown] etc. because the logic there is even more convoluted.

Rhamses

spiel2001 · 06-24-09, 11:18 AM

If you get into the guts of the API, it's actually a lot simpler than the analysis makes it appear.

IsActionUsable() returns true/false as well as a true/false as to whether or not the reason it is unusable is because the player is out of mana (power). So the API call worries about whether or not the action is currently usable in a broader scale. The caveat is the "why is it usable?" question... because it can be used on the target, because it can be self cast or because it can be used on the player's pet/vehicle, a group cast, etc.

However, we're less concerned with the why than the usable. If it isn't usable, the button alphas out. If it is usable, it doesn't. After that, it's really up to the player to organize their spells on their bars in a manner that makes sense to them which should differentiate between the reasons why the spell is usable.

Getting into all of the reasons why a spell is usable might be too expensive as it may require testing the action against all of the possible recipients. Dunno... gonna have to look into that deeper.

Rhamses · 06-24-09, 11:44 AM

Yea, I started with the combat and target bars because I think the binary system is easier to follow. But, I do not know the level of the audience's code building ability, so I have been rather verbose (not to mention an absolutely dead day at work). For the bars, I think it is best to code target / no target and help / harm. That way one bar tracks to event PlayerTargetChanged (I think) I do not have my book with me. FOr the combat bar UnitAffectingCombat or manaregenenabled (again, or something like that)

The diming logic is on the way...

Another aspect of the modifications I make to my bars are described below. I use similar logic to reduce the clutter on the screen. First I will discuss Cooldowns. It is the easiest to handle.

In MOST cases there is a Global Cooldown after a /use. But, some of the more powerful /use have an extended cooldown. When the Spell is on CoolDown, it cannot be cast. At this point I only want to discuss it in a binary system. Can /use or not. I do not want to discuss if not how soon. We can get to that later. Going back to my minimalist bias, if a spell cannot be cast under circumstances, why show it? This is how I handled it. I used Macaroon (I have used Bartender, but it was acting kinda buggy for me recently in that it would not allow me to type in the custom conditionals) to create a bar and set the Alpha very low. If can be seen if concentrated on, but it is mostly empty space. I then used TellMeWhen. This addon allows the display of an icon under a lot of different conditions. You can set it up to display the icon when the /use is “up” if the /use is on cooldown, the icon remains invisible.

I use TellMeWhen to display the icon when the /use is available. This just a texture. It cannot do anything. But, what makes it interesting is that the icon is click-through-able. That is, there is no there there. The strata is higher than the buttons I use on my actionbars, but I can click right through it.

Looking “through the strata” as if turning the screen sideways

**************** TellMeWhen Icon
[===============] actionbutton

When I “Cllick”

*************** TellMeWhen Icon
[_______________] Button depressed

Release
TellMeWhen Icon disappears because the /use is now on Cooldown.
[===============] Action button

For example as a Demo spec lock, I can /use metamorphosis. I can remember the next 15seconds that I have the metamorphosis buff. Not to mention the Big Blue winged-thing I turn into. What I easily lose track of is the next two minutes of the cooldown. So, the button goes “Pooof” I cannot cast it, so it goes away and I do not have to look at it. Cooldown complete and there it is right where I left it on my cast bar to drop right into the next cast cycle.

Let us speak of a long time self Buff. Say, Fel Armor. Once I cast it, it will be good for 30minutes. So, I use the same technique of a low alpha bar with TellMeWhen to monitor the buff state. If I have the buff, the icon does not show up. But, remember, the button is still there so after 10 minutes in a new round of buffing or at a ready check I can click the low alpha button to refresh it at any time. But, if you see that icon bright and smiling at you, you have waited too long. It is a striking reminder to Cast it. Now if we place this in an area of long term self-buffs, the default becomes that there should be nothing there. If you notice out of the corner of your eye you see it you think oh yea! Cast it.

We can do the same with a Food Buff a weapon buff or flask. If the icon of the Buff is the same as the /use we use the Dim alpha button. But, if the icons are different, we can use a regular alpha, because everybody gets a Cheeze Wedge when they are wellfed regardless of the cause. Put poached salmon, Fish Feast, whatever you would like and it will show up rather than the cheese wedge when you need to eat. Weapon enchant, Similar, whatever poison or oil that one would apply is most likely different than the icon of the weapon.

How are we doing?

Going on to debuffs. Very similar. I dim the bar alpha and use TellMeWhen to monitor the debuff. If the target does not have the debuff of interest cast by me on the mob, the Debuff icon is shown. If I cast the debuff and hits successfully, the icon disappears. But, here is where things start to get fun. I hit tab or click another mob and since that mob does not have the debuff that I cast on it, the icon pops up again. So, I “recast” the spell, but in cast, I am “Casting” it for the first time on this dude. It makes it much easier to track your debuffs across multiple mobs. When I use a debuff timer, I get lost with what debuff is actually on which mob. Now, I have not stress-tested this to see how many it can track, I have watched it handle two. By targeting 1 /use change to target 2 /use go back to target1.

Rhamses · 06-24-09, 11:59 AM

So, that is pretty much how I did it.

One bar if target = harm
One bar if Target = help

One bar combat
one bar no combat.

On the bars, I often use dim out of the button and in other times, I just leverage Strata

Rhamses

Petrah · 06-24-09, 01:52 PM

I've been following this thread, and I think I understand what you guys are talking about. If this is implemented in nUI, will there be an option to turn it off?

Vis · 06-24-09, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Silenia

I've been following this thread, and I think I understand what you guys are talking about. If this is implemented in nUI, will there be an option to turn it off?

I believe so, yes. Just like how we can turn off the cooldown timers etc now.

Petrah · 06-24-09, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vis

I believe so, yes. Just like how we can turn off the cooldown timers etc now.

Awesome!! Thanks, Vis

Rhamses · 06-24-09, 03:22 PM

a bunch of screen shots

havoxx · 06-25-09, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Silenia

I've been following this thread, and I think I understand what you guys are talking about. If this is implemented in nUI, will there be an option to turn it off?

Yea, while I do think this would be "cool" I can't have my icons disappearing or fading out on me

, I'm blind enough as it is lol.

voodoodad · 06-25-09, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by havoxx

Yea, while I do think this would be "cool" I can't have my icons disappearing or fading out on me

, I'm blind enough as it is lol.

Hey, man! I thought you were dead!

I'm betting very few people here remember what movie that was from...

Petrah · 06-25-09, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by havoxx

Yea, while I do think this would be "cool" I can't have my icons disappearing or fading out on me

, I'm blind enough as it is lol.

Without going too much off-topic.... I don't handle change very well. Especially big changes. However, I do like knowing that an option is there if I wanna check it out, because you just never know with me. This is the one thing that I enjoy so much about nUI... all of the options that come with it.

Voodoo Daddeh... ya got me with that one. I don't remember!