Updaters and Such

[Falter]

TL;DR
I guess I'm venting, but I'm not upset about being forced to "do the right thing" by the mod sites. I just wish WoWI had put me in a position to continue to actively enjoy its site by giving me a better alternative than manual updating before blocking updaters as now I feel like the Curse updater is my best option for keeping mods up to date for raiding.

Now, my version of Pink Floyd's "The Wall"...

Personally, between Curse and WoWI, I'll take WoWI any day.

I respect the work of the mod authors that seem to be more active here than Curse, like Tekkub, Aezay, Mikord, etc. I also enjoy the look and feel of WoWI way more than Curse.

I used to come to the site for a couple of reasons:

1 - To see what people more talented than myself were cooking up
2 - To support this site and hopefully thereby, people from #1

But I also used updaters because they make managing my mods ... bearable.

Yeah, I almost said manageable. I had hoped by actively visiting the site (and not blocking ads) that it made up for mooching with updaters. Further, I would gladly have used a WoWI updater if there had been one worth using. I would even pay a monthly subscription to cover the bandwidth (all 10 Megs or less of it) I use each month to update my mods.

But neither of those were ever made options available to me.

Now, maybe this site is just meant to be for mod authors to have a community to share their work in which case good riddance to the leeches like myself. But if that isn't the case (and the Donation links tell me it isn't) and normal users count for something in the business model of this site, then I think WoWI has made a fairly poor move by blocking updaters without having one of their own to replace it.

At this point, I feel like I'm being pushed to Curse because WoWI has no updated updater it would seem, but Curse does. I suspect I'm not the only one. 80% of the people I have raided with are barely capable enough to get an addon installed in the first place, let alone update one manually.

Peace.

[Landrell]

There's nothing wrong with the Curse Client. I've been using it for a while now and it does the trick for the moment. There are some mods that I use that CC does not have, so I come here to manually update the ones that need it.

However, once the WoWI Updater is available, I will move to that one since I prefer the layout here over curse; it's much more user friendly. Though the WoWI updater is still currently under development, the person in charge is hard at work to getting it where it needs to be. Patience is a virtue with this one.

I hope you find what you're looking for here and then some my friend!

[donchupa]

A working WOWI is a most to be honest glad to hear its being worked on, its a shame it wasnt up and running before matrix was shoved aside because that was certainly a great installer, fingers crossed that wowi will be as simple to use

[Landrell]

Originally Posted by donchupa A working WOWI is a most to be honest glad to hear its being worked on, its a shame it wasnt up and running before matrix was shoved aside because that was certainly a great installer, fingers crossed that wowi will be as simple to use

Now the older version of the WoWI Updater is still available for download. Some people have issues with it, others say it works just fine. I'll be patient myself for when it does come out, the Devs are doing an awesome job with what little time they have to make this happen.

[Penguar]

Originally Posted by Landrell There's nothing wrong with the Curse Client. I've been using it for a while now and it does the trick for the moment. There are some mods that I use that CC does not have, so I come here to manually update the ones that need it. However, once the WoWI Updater is available, I will move to that one since I prefer the layout here over curse; it's much more user friendly. Though the WoWI updater is still currently under development, the person in charge is hard at work to getting it where it needs to be. Patience is a virtue with this one. I hope you find what you're looking for here and then some my friend!

What is wrong with the curse client now is that they are forcing you to pay $2.5 a month everyone month (minimum) to auto update addons which are authored by other people. That $2.5 is only if you have a subscription - otherwise it is as much as $50 a year, every year, or about 4.15 a month - every month. Thats about 28% of the cost of playing wow. Incredibly insane and incredibly greedy.

[Seerah]

I have moved all off-topic threads regarding WowMatrix into this thread: http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=22069

Please keep discussion about that topic consolidated to that thread. This forum is about our upcoming updater client. Also, please leave comments, suggestions, and criticisms about Curse on the Curse forums.

[jader9920]

I will admit that up until it was shut down, I was a WM user, since that day I have bounced back and forth between this site and curse, updating the addons I had.

Yesterday two things happened which caused me to rethink my position.
1. Curse released the whole premium thing(I won't get into all the things wrong with it since this isn't curse)
2. Second, I checked out the info and screens on Minion.

As of now, I consider myself a WOWI community member. The updater looks and sounds incredible, and the mods on the forums here are much, much better behaved than on the other site.
I look forward to the new updater and doing my part in this community to help keep things going.

Now, to find replacements here for all those mods from curse...

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by Penguar What is wrong with the curse client now is that they are forcing you to pay $2.5 a month everyone month (minimum) to auto update addons which are authored by other people. That $2.5 is only if you have a subscription - otherwise it is as much as $50 a year, every year, or about 4.15 a month - every month. Thats about 28% of the cost of playing wow. Incredibly insane and incredibly greedy.

No one is forcing you to do anything. I've never used the Curse updater until 5 minutes ago. I am not a premium member and I had absolutely no issue using the Curse client to update my addons.

I should mention that the Curse client wasn't as monstrous as I thought it was going to be. I'll still uninstall it though as I have no need for it as I prefer to manually update the few addons that I have.

[voodoodad]

Originally Posted by Silenia No one is forcing you to do anything. I've never used the Curse updater until 5 minutes ago. I am not a premium member and I had absolutely no issue using the Curse client to update my addons. I should mention that the Curse client wasn't as monstrous as I thought it was going to be. I'll still uninstall it though as I have no need for it as I prefer to manually update the few addons that I have.

Out of curiosity, I just used it for the first time in a couple of years. I didn't notice any lack of functionality and there was one ad visible on the interface, relatively small in the lower right-hand corner. Update one or all buttons still present and working... Anyway, like Silenia I prefer to manually update but curse client isn't the monster it has been made out to be and I'm positive that WoWI's version will be even better.

[Petrah]

Originally Posted by voodoodad2000 Out of curiosity, I just used it for the first time in a couple of years. I didn't notice any lack of functionality and there was one ad visible on the interface, relatively small in the lower right-hand corner. Update one or all buttons still present and working... Anyway, like Silenia I prefer to manually update but curse client isn't the monster it has been made out to be and I'm positive that WoWI's version will be even better.

The one thing that I did notice, after making my post, was that the upon updating Fubar it placed a Libroc folder inside of my addons folder. I forget what this is called, but the old Ace updater thingy gave you an option for this. If left on default, it didn't separate ace libs. I mentioned this over on Curse and Kaelton was cool enough to add it to their list of things they may add to the client (an option to turn that off, because right now there isn't one).

[Cairenn]

Hey Falter, sorry, didn't see your post last night (been hard to keep up with all the different threads on all the different sites). We did talk about the fact that our updater isn't ready in this post and this one. We most definitely wish it could have been ready. We also wish that we'd never had to block them in the first place, but we were left with no other choice. =/

I'm sorry this whole thing has been such a pain for our users.

[donchupa]

cheers Landell ill wait for the new one as well its easy enough to grab what i need at mo anyways, sad to read about the developer suffering to get it ready, to be honest hope he gets to kick back a bit and its ready when its ready, if i could help then i would offer my services but i know nothing about it

[Falter]

Well, I think the source for a lot of users like myself isn't the decision to cut updaters off. I acknowledge I always saw the business aspect of the equation, which is why I frequently just browse the site with ads blinking in my face.

But, there are a lot of people out there like myself that help guildies with things like this and now we're being flooded with people asking for help in manually updating mods they need to raid that they were barely able to install the first time. And the only choice we have to save our sanity is pointing them to Curse's client.

Every person that switches to Curse's client is going to be highly unlikely to return even after your updater is finished and that's bad for revenue (but good for bandwidth?!?). People are sheep and they are being herded to Curse and they will stay there until the grass is gone just like they did with WoWAce and now WoWMatrix. In the meantime, you might have pretty green pastures, but nobody's coming to graze. And it won't matter that Curse's grass is half astroturf.

I hate pointing out issues without suggesting solutions, so...

Consider allowing updaters to work again until yours is done
Since bandwidth was the issue you posted and not revenue loss (yes, I know that's a part of having bandwidth), let the updaters work for the big tickets like ORA, BigWigs, etc.. Just give those updaters the bare necessities if you can afford it to keep the users using the updaters they have instead of switching just to Curse.

By doing this, you could reverse the mass movement to Curse's client and maybe even grow your userbase, because people already have updaters working will stay with it until it doesn't. Remember those sheep from above?

This is a small set of mods, but a large number of users, I get that. It takes bandwidth to push a smaller number of mods to a larger number of users, but I'm thinking longer term in that by not keeping those users on their existing updaters and off Curse, you'll end up with more bandwidth then you'll ever need because the user base is all at Curse.

This would also take some stress off your developer so he doesn't end up pushing himself to get a product out that isn't ready. Because that will just further exacerbate things if it comes out and is functionally behind Curse's client.

Right now, Curse has all the advantage, but I still think WoWI has the superior product. I don't want to see WoWI lose out. I know this is probably keeping you up at night and causing you gray hair. So let me end by saying that I wouldn't be taking the time to type these things out if I didn't appreciate the site and the effort that has been put into it. That I admire the abilities of the authors that post here and really like to anonymously and quietly troll about. I don't want to see it fade out by losing out to MegaMart, er, Curse.

Further, all those attacks on you and the site by angry people, just try to understand that even those folks wouldn't be so angry if they didn't value the site so much. The magnitude of their anger reflects just how much they feel they've lost and that's a testament to the worth of the site and its community.

[Laslo]

Originally Posted by Falter Further, all those attacks on you and the site by angry people, just try to understand that even those folks wouldn't be so angry if they didn't value the site so much. The magnitude of their anger reflects just how much they feel they've lost and that's a testament to the worth of the site and its community.

That's just it, though. Most of the people posting in such outrage (please note I said most, not all) do NOT respect the community or value the site. They are mad because they lost their lazy one-click solution. If they did value the site and the community, losing WoWMatrix should not be a problem because they are just "forced" to visit the site they already love and respect anyway. There's a reason many of the enraged posters have April 2009 registration dates and 1 or 2 posts. They are not part of the community that is here. They are here to express their dismay at having to actually install an addon themselves. Installing an addon is not difficult, and people's unwillingness to learn or adapt is not the responsibility of this site, no matter how much whining and crying about WM comes through here.

[donchupa]

[quote=Falter;128310
Further, all those attacks on you and the site by angry people, just try to understand that even those folks wouldn't be so angry if they didn't value the site so much. The magnitude of their anger reflects just how much they feel they've lost and that's a testament to the worth of the site and its community.[/QUOTE]

No one has a right to be angry unless they have paid for a specific service that isnt being provided.

As has been stated earlier this was forced upon wowi it wasnt a choice they had or wished to do at this stage.

As for being mobbed by your guild for info on how to dl/install addons would have thought that most guilds have an idiots guide on their forums for that, if you havnt then why not just make one

[Seerah]

Originally Posted by donchupa As for being mobbed by your guild for info on how to dl/install addons would have thought that most guilds have an idiots guide on their forums for that, if you havnt then why not just make one

You can link to ours if you like, has tons of info and resources including a video tutorial (for XP): http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=14762

[Republic]

Originally Posted by Falter Well, I think the source for a lot of users like myself isn't the decision to cut updaters off. I acknowledge I always saw the business aspect of the equation, which is why I frequently just browse the site with ads blinking in my face. But, there are a lot of people out there like myself that help guildies with things like this and now we're being flooded with people asking for help in manually updating mods they need to raid that they were barely able to install the first time. And the only choice we have to save our sanity is pointing them to Curse's client. Every person that switches to Curse's client is going to be highly unlikely to return even after your updater is finished and that's bad for revenue (but good for bandwidth?!?). People are sheep and they are being herded to Curse and they will stay there until the grass is gone just like they did with WoWAce and now WoWMatrix. In the meantime, you might have pretty green pastures, but nobody's coming to graze. And it won't matter that Curse's grass is half astroturf. I hate pointing out issues without suggesting solutions, so... Consider allowing updaters to work again until yours is done Since bandwidth was the issue you posted and not revenue loss (yes, I know that's a part of having bandwidth), let the updaters work for the big tickets like ORA, BigWigs, etc.. Just give those updaters the bare necessities if you can afford it to keep the users using the updaters they have instead of switching just to Curse. By doing this, you could reverse the mass movement to Curse's client and maybe even grow your userbase, because people already have updaters working will stay with it until it doesn't. Remember those sheep from above? This is a small set of mods, but a large number of users, I get that. It takes bandwidth to push a smaller number of mods to a larger number of users, but I'm thinking longer term in that by not keeping those users on their existing updaters and off Curse, you'll end up with more bandwidth then you'll ever need because the user base is all at Curse. This would also take some stress off your developer so he doesn't end up pushing himself to get a product out that isn't ready. Because that will just further exacerbate things if it comes out and is functionally behind Curse's client. Right now, Curse has all the advantage, but I still think WoWI has the superior product. I don't want to see WoWI lose out. I know this is probably keeping you up at night and causing you gray hair. So let me end by saying that I wouldn't be taking the time to type these things out if I didn't appreciate the site and the effort that has been put into it. That I admire the abilities of the authors that post here and really like to anonymously and quietly troll about. I don't want to see it fade out by losing out to MegaMart, er, Curse. Further, all those attacks on you and the site by angry people, just try to understand that even those folks wouldn't be so angry if they didn't value the site so much. The magnitude of their anger reflects just how much they feel they've lost and that's a testament to the worth of the site and its community.

So, in your best judgement, it makes more sense for this site to go ahead and let the bandwidth theft continue in order to make it more convenient to keep your mods updated? Are you serious? You aren't even a premium user, imo you have no grounds on which to stand to tell the ownership of this site how to spend its money.

I'm not jumping on you for anything, I'm just saying you people who only focus on convenience are failing miserably to see the big picture associated with the COST of running sites like these. There is no way in hell this, or any other site, should simply lay over and continue funding an application made by people not associated with this (or any other) legitimate site.

Please keep the big picture in mind when you think about how things are really running these days. It is not this site's fault that WM chose to do "business" as they did. This site is not the bad guy. Your inconvenience is not relevant to the real reason WM should remain blocked from any legitimate mods site. Period.

If you consider the entire scope of this issue and look at it from all points of view (especially from the point of view as people paying for your convenience - the hosts), you will see the only sensible and logical solution is to wait for a legitimate updater to be produced that does not rip off someone else.

In the meantime, you could always become a premium member if you don't like the ads. Oh, one other thing, I don't buy the logic that someone else having a "superior" updater will impact this site's traffic in any way. This site has a very unique, professional environment run by people who actually care about the game and its community. Anyone who values such a thing will never leave simply because someone else can save them a few mouseclicks every few weeks when updating mods. You can't find what goes on here anywhere else. This is the highest quality WOW community on the web. Period.

[forty2j]

Speaking of WoWI updaters.. am I the only nutcase still using the old Java version (wowiuupdater.jar)?

I mean it works.. otherwise I wouldn't use it.. but it's klunky with a K

[ryan odets]

Originally Posted by Falter Every person that switches to Curse's client is going to be highly unlikely to return even after your updater is finished and that's bad for revenue (but good for bandwidth?!?). People are sheep and they are being herded to Curse and they will stay there until the grass is gone just like they did with WoWAce and now WoWMatrix. In the meantime, you might have pretty green pastures, but nobody's coming to graze. And it won't matter that Curse's grass is half astroturf.

Seeing as how curse just released the premium service today I think this quote is and should be reread. Honestly I think Curse knew WOWI's updater was months out and wanted to try and get as many people to "buy" the premium service. So they came up with a plan to get WOWI onboard and shut down WOWMATRIX. Call me what you want but honestly it seems fishy to me.

I allready did the right thing and upgraded my membership to premium for the WOWI once it comes out. Not a question there. I almost went and upgraded my curse client but then I said whoa..wtf? Its been two weeks and now the release version is ready? Oh come on you money hungry twats. I aint given squat to curse. Just a side note, last year my older brother had his account hacked. We traced the culprit to a hunter mod he dl from curse. Contacted them told them what we found, even showed them the virus scan and the online scan. Never heard a thing from them. About a week later the mod was gone and couldn't even find a deep link no where. Did they ever send a email saying sorry? NOPE.

Now I sent a pm to the owner here explaining my frustration in the cutoff move. Within the hour I received a pm back and even some information on how to make updating a bit easier. I was directed here when bc launched and I have always came here to find new mods when looking for something in particular. I will be coming back for a long time.

[septor]

Originally Posted by ryan odets Seeing as how curse just released the premium service today I think this quote is and should be reread. Honestly I think Curse knew WOWI's updater was months out and wanted to try and get as many people to "buy" the premium service. So they came up with a plan to get WOWI onboard and shut down WOWMATRIX. Call me what you want but honestly it seems fishy to me.

I'd call it good business practice myself.

Originally Posted by ryan odets I allready did the right thing and upgraded my membership to premium for the WOWI once it comes out. Not a question there. I almost went and upgraded my curse client but then I said whoa..wtf? Its been two weeks and now the release version is ready? Oh come on you money hungry twats. I aint given squat to curse. Just a side note, last year my older brother had his account hacked. We traced the culprit to a hunter mod he dl from curse. Contacted them told them what we found, even showed them the virus scan and the online scan. Never heard a thing from them. About a week later the mod was gone and couldn't even find a deep link no where. Did they ever send a email saying sorry? NOPE.

You won't need a premium membership to get all the cool stuff the WoWI updater has. IIRC being a premium member allows you to not see ads. I'm sure additional things will be added for premium members only in the future.

Secondly, the premium version of the Curse Client has been the Curse Client all the time it's been being (?) rewritten. They just today threw the switch that made you need a premium membership to use the premium benefits.